Hillary Clinton and her presidential-loss, blame game of excluding herself

[eastofeden]

Just curious now...did anyone else think it was VERY ODD that the polls were so wrong? ...and did the hate for Hillary Clinton really allow you to ignore the possibility when there were so many red flashing lights?

I have been paying attention to politics my whole adult (and teenage) life...and everything about this smelled bad and reeked of Russian Influence which is why I stated over and over in the preceding year that my #1 concern was Russian Influence and the connection between Putin and Trump.

It was obvious to me...

 

[ballcaphair]

Just curious now...did anyone else think it was VERY ODD that the polls were so wrong? ...and did the hate for Hillary Clinton really allow you to ignore the possibility when there were so many red flashing lights?

I have been paying attention to politics my whole adult (and teenage) life...and everything about this smelled bad and reeked of Russian Influence which is why I stated over and over in the preceding year that my #1 concern was Russian Influence and the connection between Putin and Trump.

It was obvious to me...

I agree. I was outraged that the fact that we were hacked was spun into "hacked for what benefit?' We were HACKED! We are so anti-"each other" that we cannot be shocked together that our election was HACKED! The elephant in the room is not who the elephant favors. THERE IS AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TickTockMan]

I agree. I was outraged that the fact that we were hacked was spun into "hacked for what benefit?' We were HACKED! We are so anti-"each other" that we cannot be shocked together that our election was HACKED! The elephant in the room is not who the elephant favors. THERE IS AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!

Odds are we are hacked every election. Just as we do other countries. Nothing has been shown that says there was any difference in who won.

What is shown though is Hillary and the DNC pissed off a lot of voters when they cheated Bernie and his supporters. In turn a lot of people, including those that were going to vote for Hillary, chose not too.

 

[Stardreamer]

Just curious now...did anyone else think it was VERY ODD that the polls were so wrong? ...and did the hate for Hillary Clinton really allow you to ignore the possibility when there were so many red flashing lights?

I have been paying attention to politics my whole adult (and teenage) life...and everything about this smelled bad and reeked of Russian Influence which is why I stated over and over in the preceding year that my #1 concern was Russian Influence and the connection between Putin and Trump.

It was obvious to me...

The polls were not all that wrong. I gather that the race narrowed sharply at the end and the results fell within the margin of error. The media analysis, however, had hyped up the race so much with statements like 'Trump has no path to 270' that it made the polls look wrong. I honestly do think the Comey thing at the end was a critical element in that final narrowing of the race.

 

[nycguydowntown]

she overwhelmingly won the popular vote and lost electoral vote by 80,000 votes---the russians and fake news and the repubs made her a monster and the morons in this country went for it---the shit storm that is trump in the past 120 days of trump is proof no matter how bad clinton was---the alternative is insanity. Either way we are fucked as a country---because trump will lead to another repub constitutional crisis and clinton would have too. they would have impeached her if she got in.

 

[Sausy]

Take out California and her margin is nowhere near as impressive. She didn't take all the precautions necessary to seal the deal and win a couple of the Rust Belt States Obama won twice. She was warned and she was arrogant and dismissed those warnings and while Russia's involvement certainly played a part with their fake or misleading news stories influencing voters the end she could well have still won if she made Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania absolute priorities. Hillary(and Bill for that matter) are self serving, entitled core symptoms of the problem tying themselves too closely to corporate boards and Wall Street (plus Hillary's distinct hawkishness)call for reform in 2020... however horrible a vehicle to promote reform as Donald Trump presented himself(and he has been toxic on so many fronts) Hillary being a servant of the people is an uproariously laughable picture.

Advice to Dems... it's the corporatist establishment, stupid... however worthy your message is, until your leadership values middle and working class values more than being close to corporate boards and financial institutions you are going to have a big problem getting your message across and deservedly so. We have to hold the Russians to account.... we cannot dismiss their efforts to at the very least shake public confidence in our nation and its institutions. They are not welcome and they may well have actually gone further and we HAVE to know if that involves colluding with and/or having compromising and leveraging info on Trump and his people. But It DOES NOT give the Dem leadership a pass, and the benefit of the doubt. Things need to change, priorities need to change. I'm gladly not with her.. or him... or "them". They have to be with "us".

 

[ballcaphair]

The Right sidesteps to the right and the Left sidesteps to the right and think they've not become centrists. Bernie is labeled a Socialst. As a young genuine Conservative, I see a pattern. No one represents the shrinking middle class. These parties need to be with us as Sausy says. We are not getting our money's worth.

 

[Kulindahr]

The Right sidesteps to the right and the Left sidesteps to the right and think they've not become centrists. Bernie is labeled a Socialst. As a young genuine Conservative, I see a pattern. No one represents the shrinking middle class. These parties need to be with us as Sausy says. We are not getting our money's worth.

No, the 0.5% are getting their money's worth. As Lawrence Lessig shows, the election that really counts in the U.S. is the money election, the ability to garner the support of those writing the checks for most of the campaign money.

 

[ballcaphair]

No, the 0.5% are getting their money's worth. As Lawrence Lessig shows, the election that really counts in the U.S. is the money election, the ability to garner the support of those writing the checks for most of the campaign money.

Representation 101. I stand corrected, Sir. And so my pockets are too empty to buy even a single favor.

 

[Kulindahr]

she overwhelmingly won the popular vote and lost electoral vote by 80,000 votes---the russians and fake news and the repubs made her a monster and the morons in this country went for it---the shit storm that is trump in the past 120 days of trump is proof no matter how bad clinton was---the alternative is insanity. Either way we are fucked as a country---because trump will lead to another repub constitutional crisis and clinton would have too. they would have impeached her if she got in.

No, she lost the electoral by 77 votes.

And she is a monster. The odd thing is that on one topic Trump is shifting to become the same kind of monster -- warmongering against Russia. It's bizarre how the Russians supposedly helped him win, and he's now more anti-Russia than he ever has been in his entire life.

 

[opinterph]

[President Trump is] now more anti-Russia than he ever has been in his entire life.

What is the basis of your evidence?

 

[Kulindahr]

What is the basis of your evidence?

Until 2011 he was in a mild sort of love affair, regularly trying to do business and make friends in Russia; that year his first recorded negative statement I can find appeared -- as a criticism of Obama for being "soft" on them even as he said he respected and admired Russia and Putin. A couple of years later he asserts that Russia is "outsmarting" the U.S. in a way that seems admiring. Then came his campaign for president, during which he had lots of good things to say about both Russia and Putin.

But recently he's said we're not getting along, that we're at a low point in relations; part of that is his doing in the Syria missile attack, part because of the turnabout to supporting NATO. It's not a huge change, but it's no longer the "We can be buddies!" attitude he's always shown.

 

[eastofeden]

Until 2011 he was in a mild sort of love affair, regularly trying to do business and make friends in Russia; that year his first recorded negative statement I can find appeared -- as a criticism of Obama for being "soft" on them even as he said he respected and admired Russia and Putin. A couple of years later he asserts that Russia is "outsmarting" the U.S. in a way that seems admiring. Then came his campaign for president, during which he had lots of good things to say about both Russia and Putin.

But recently he's said we're not getting along, that we're at a low point in relations; part of that is his doing in the Syria missile attack, part because of the turnabout to supporting NATO. It's not a huge change, but it's no longer the "We can be buddies!" attitude he's always shown.

Do you actually take anything the man says as "truth"? If so...I have to question your judgement.

As it is..he pretty much contradicts himself daily and he is on tape saying the opposite thing so many times it makes your head spin. I wouldn't take anything he says as indicative of anything except he has some kind of mental disorder.

 

[Kulindahr]

Do you actually take anything the man says as "truth"? If so...I have to question your judgement.

As it is..he pretty much contradicts himself daily and he is on tape saying the opposite thing so many times it makes your head spin. I wouldn't take anything he says as indicative of anything except he has some kind of mental disorder.

He has had nothing but good things to say about Russia until recently. And his actions have to be taken as truth -- bombing that Syrian base was a poke in Putin's cheek.


(I'd say in his eye, but the base wasn't worth the missiles spent on it.)

 

[eastofeden]

He has had nothing but good things to say about Russia until recently. And his actions have to be taken as truth -- bombing that Syrian base was a poke in Putin's cheek.


(I'd say in his eye, but the base wasn't worth the missiles spent on it.)

There is no precedent for this guy and the actions or words he uses....

None of it indicates anything to me. He has zero credibility in my eyes.

The only thing I can be sure of is that he is representing the alt right and they are a tiny minority of Americans.

 

[Kulindahr]

There is no precedent for this guy and the actions or words he uses....

None of it indicates anything to me. He has zero credibility in my eyes.

The only thing I can be sure of is that he is representing the alt right and they are a tiny minority of Americans.

I don't think he represents the alt-right at all -- I think they're just good at manipulating him. They're great manipulators anyway, so they have practice pulling the strings on shallow minds like Trump's.

 

[Julian89]

The thing with what girlfriend is doing is that she actively engages in historical revisionism of what happened in November 2016 and people are having none of it.

By propagating her excuses, she's doing the public no favor by spreading the wrong lessons of last year's elections. It's the working class that voted for the flesh and bone deplorable in swing states. Even though he is a liar, you gotta give credit the flesh and bone deplorable for pretending to care about their grievances (e.g. NAFTA, TPP, outsourcing, and whatnot).

The establishment within the Democratic Party are learning the wrong lessons in this Russia whatever whatnot and if they keep this up, I am afraid that they will suffer the same fate girlfriend had in 2018 an 2020 and as a heart and soul progressive, I do not want that to happen.The Democrat Party is the progressive party of FDR and LBJ that brought Social Security, Medicare, Wall Street regulation, Civil Rights Act and other progressive legacies. It's time to take the party away from its current corporate masters and have it back to its progressive roots. No more Third Way hullaballos like Welfare reform, corporate welfare, Wall Street deregulation, and others that started under Bill Clinton.

Now more than ever, people are more concerned about bread and butter issues than whatever whatnot -gate is being fed to them. They want to know where they will get their next pay check if ever they will get another one at all. They want to ensure that they have health care services they can turn into when something ill happen to themselves or their family members. I say keep the investigations going but that should not be the highlight by the Democrats to the general public unless they are no longer rumors or conspiracy theories and instead have very strong evidences beyond reasonable doubt. Better focus and highlight in delivering their messages on sustainable jobs, Medicare for All, Wall Street regulation, strengthening social security, free College tuition in State Universities and Colleges, progressive taxation, and other bread and butter concerns.

 

[TickTockMan]

The thing with what girlfriend is doing is that she actively engages in historical revisionism of what happened in November 2016 and people are having none of it.

By propagating her excuses, she's doing the public no favor by spreading the wrong lessons of last year's elections. It's the working class that voted for the flesh and bone deplorable in swing states. Even though he is a liar, you gotta give credit the flesh and bone deplorable for pretending to care about their grievances (e.g. NAFTA, TPP, outsourcing, and whatnot).

The establishment within the Democratic Party are learning the wrong lessons in this Russia whatever whatnot and if they keep this up, I am afraid that they will suffer the same fate girlfriend had in 2018 an 2020 and as a heart and soul progressive, I do not want that to happen.The Democrat Party is the progressive party of FDR and LBJ that brought Social Security, Medicare, Wall Street regulation, Civil Rights Act and other progressive legacies. It's time to take the party away from its current corporate masters and have it back to its progressive roots. No more Third Way hullaballos like Welfare reform, corporate welfare, Wall Street deregulation, and others that started under Bill Clinton.

Now more than ever, people are more concerned about bread and butter issues than whatever whatnot -gate is being fed to them. They want to know where they will get their next pay check if ever they will get another one at all. They want to ensure that they have health care services they can turn into when something ill happen to themselves or their family members. I say keep the investigations going but that should not be the highlight by the Democrats to the general public unless they are no longer rumors or conspiracy theories and instead have very strong evidences beyond reasonable doubt. Better focus and highlight in delivering their messages on sustainable jobs, Medicare for All, Wall Street regulation, strengthening social security, free College tuition in State Universities and Colleges, progressive taxation, and other bread and butter concerns.

Great post.



The problem as I see it though is that Democrats in office say they are for:

sustainable jobs, Medicare for All, Wall Street regulation, strengthening social security, free College tuition in State Universities and Colleges, progressive taxation

But when it comes time to fight for it they do very little or nothing. Sometimes it is out and out. Other times they have one or two take the blame of why things failed. And I mean that for when they were in the majority as well as now. They are playing both sides and they are losing their progressive cred with a lot of people.

 

[eastofeden]

Great post.



The problem as I see it though is that Democrats in office say they are for:




But when it comes time to fight for it they do very little or nothing. Sometimes it is out and out. Other times they have one or two take the blame of why things failed. And I mean that for when they were in the majority as well as now. They are playing both sides and they are losing their progressive cred with a lot of people.

The progressive cred is the thing that is gone for me....prior to Bernie I supported the progressive agenda....

To allow someone you KNOW will get rid of all of the progress made in all of these areas made by Democrats to prove your points...and some of the points aren't true..some are weak...and a few are valid... but getting rid of the only person who will move forward is not even logical. In other words...you threw the baby out with the bathwater so whatever point you were trying to make is gone now...and the resentment that your movement will face...uh....you guys have no idea how deep the hatred is now.....and you really should have a clue. You had the patent on "hate" during the election...and now....things are quite different for everyone due largely to that hate.

As it is..anyone who runs with the progressive blessing will NOT be the one I vote for. I would rather vote for anyone else.....I have a horrible opinion of progressives now....and I am far left.

Take a moment to study the all or nothing version of yourselves on the right..the Tea Party...you could learn alot....

Your point is going to come back to bite you now for the rest of your years.

It is foolish to a degree that is insane to continue as you have without understanding the amount of people you have alienated....

Susan Sarandon is happy about Trump because she thinks it will cause the Revolution she wants.....but it is always wise to be careful what you ask for because when/if the revolution happens....it may not the revolution she is hoping for....or wants....

 

[TickTockMan]

The progressive cred is the thing that is gone for me....prior to Bernie I supported the progressive agenda....

To allow someone you KNOW will get rid of all of the progress made in all of these areas made by Democrats to prove your points...and some of the points aren't true..some are weak...and a few are valid... but getting rid of the only person who will move forward is not even logical. In other words...you threw the baby out with the bathwater so whatever point you were trying to make is gone now...and the resentment that your movement will face...uh....you guys have no idea how deep the hatred is now.....and you really should have a clue. You had the patent on "hate" during the election...and now....things are quite different for everyone due largely to that hate.

As it is..anyone who runs with the progressive blessing will NOT be the one I vote for. I would rather vote for anyone else.....I have a horrible opinion of progressives now....and I am far left.

Take a moment to study the all or nothing version of yourselves on the right..the Tea Party...you could learn alot....

Your point is going to come back to bite you now for the rest of your years.

It is foolish to a degree that is insane to continue as you have without understanding the amount of people you have alienated....

Susan Sarandon is happy about Trump because she thinks it will cause the Revolution she wants.....but it is always wise to be careful what you ask for because when/if the revolution happens....it may not the revolution she is hoping for....or wants....

Most of the country disagrees with you. It is people like you that disbanded the baby, not us.