Hillary Clinton and her presidential-loss, blame game of excluding herself

[kallipolis]

^^I'm addressing your daily rants that attempt to persuade us that Hillary Clinton was not the popular choice of the voting public.

Having won some 3 million votes more than Trump evidences that she was more popular than Trump.

 

[Julian89]

Political analysis is always speculative, and Kalliopolis is Greek so American political labels aren't going to apply to him. Lets indulge ourselves with one thought shall we, Hilary is gone, she's utterly irrelevant to anything else, there is no point in talking about her anymore.

Adios Hilary, it's into the sunset for you!

Stating information based on available and verifiable data is not speculation. And the indulgence is not about Hillary Clinton but her embodiment of the pro-corporate welfare, pro-wealth concentration, pro-war, pro-deregulation and other ideas, values and principles of establishment Democrats being rendered irrelevant.

Hillary can make a comeback without these Third Way baggages and we will welcome her with open arms, heart and soul. One genuine starter perhaps is a vow never to accept Big Money ever again. And please come out clean and open. Put her guard down.

So the sunset is not about a person but more so on corrupt ideas, values and principles.

 

[Julian89]

Some people still fixated on Hillary I see.

As though she is relevant at all to the current mess that the US is in.

But I guess deflection and diversion will be a welcome distraction.

What are we, 9 months since she lost? And you guys can't help but sill find something to complain about when it comes to her? Do you really have that much hatred of an individual or hold grudges that much?

As much as she might have not been a good candidate in certain people's eyes, the way people keep harping on her doesn't speak well on your character either.

We should have an honest and open discussion on why she lost and try to fix it for the future. This may not have been Clinton. He or she could be Joe Biden, Tim Kaine or whoever who did the same thing she did. Lessons must be learned so same mistakes will not be repeated all over again. This is not fixation, complaining, hating or holding grudges.

 

[Benvolio]

The presidency swings back and forth between the two parties. This was a Republican year. It was not inevitable, but it was one of the primary factors.

 

[kallipolis]

This is not fixation, complaining, hating or holding grudges.

Yes, it is. Self indulgence may well be your forte.

 

[Julian89]

Re: What does the current establishment Democrats stand for?

Her political career is deader than Ben's concept of ethics so why are you still whinging about Clinton? She's gone, baby, gone.

There was also plenty of sexism from everybody ('Bernie Bros' included) against the second Clinton to go 'round. Methinks you doth protest too much, that horse you're beating is a pile of old, grey bone dust. Perhaps you could look to all the guys still in office (instead of the woman who failed to get the seat who is no longer particularly relevant) and turn that righteous ire against the officeholders who still have some semblance of a future in politics.

You want better politicians, work to get 'em. Preferably instead of endlessly harping on a has-been. She's far from the only politician that's, at best, wiggly.

As what I already said, this is not personal. It's just that she was the embodiment of what was wrong with current establishment Democrats - pro-corporate welfare, pro-deregulation, pro-war, pro-wealth concentration and other things that are still haunting the current Democratic Party.

My spider sense is telling me that she'll be coming back and prayerfully she genuinely comes out clean and open with her guard totally down and without these Third Way baggage. By then, we will welcome her with open arms, heart and soul. One thing she can start on is renouncing her ties with Big Money.

And yes, we are working on getting Progressives elected. For your further information, please go here: https://ourrevolution.com/

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

This is not fixation, complaining, hating or holding grudges.

Then people need to do a better job at what they are criticizing because it's coming off this way.

 

[CoolBlue71]

^An avalanche of hate filled prejudice posted daily on this forum by you does not change the fact that Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote.

Popular Vote: Clinton 65,853,516 (48.5%) votes vs. Trump 62,984,825 (46.4%)

Clinton lost the election even though she won the national popular vote by almost 3 million votes.

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...rian/page3?p=10522662&viewfull=1#post10522662

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Why and How the Split:
Different Winners with Electoral College and U.S. Popular Vote

In 2012, re-election for Democratic president Barack Obama included having won the popular vote by +3.86 over losing Republican challenger Mitt Romney. (Obama, 51.02%; Romney, 47.16%.)

Effective December 11, 2016, at 11:00 a.m. ET, Hillary Clinton held the popular vote by +2.08. (Hillary, 48.08%; Trump, 46.00%.) That means a 2012-to-2016 national Republican shift of +1.78 percentage points. (See: http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/ .)

That doesn’t explain enough.

Donald Trump needed a national Republican shift of +3.87 to win over the popular vote by at least +0.01. He did this in only 25 of the nation’s 50 states. Typically a party-pickup winner will pull this off in a clear majority of states. (In 2008, Democratic pickup winner Barack Obama met his number in 43 states. In 1992, Democratic pickup winner Bill Clinton reached in 41 states. In 1980, Republican pickup winner Ronald Reagan came through in 46 states.)

Looking at that maps, above, the first is the official map with Election 2016. Light shades of red are the Republican pickup states for Donald Trump. With the second map above, the states colored in red are the ones in which Donald Trump shifted at least +3.87 in his direction. For those in which he did not reach, they are colored blue (Advantage for Hillary Clinton).

Hillary held off Trump, to indicate she would win the popular vote, with states plus District of Columbia which comprise 328 of the 538 electoral votes—that is, 60.96 percent. So, this illuminates how we can get a split-outcome result in a presidential election.

Of the Top 20 most-populous states, worth 369 of the 538 electoral votes, Trump shifted to a level necessary in just 8: New York, Pennsylvania (pickup), Ohio (pickup), Michigan (pickup), Indiana, Tennessee, Missouri, and Wisconsin (pickup). Those pickup states comprise +64 electoral votes. Added to Mitt Romney’s 206 electoral votes…right there are 270 electoral votes.

With other pickups, Trump also shifted Iowa sufficiently as well as Maine's 2nd Congressional District. He did not reach a +3.87 shift with his pickup of Florida. So, 277 of his 306 electoral votes were because he was able to get 71 of his 100 pickup electoral votes with a 2012-to-2016 shift that was at the level he needed.

July 31, 2017 | Dave Leip’s website has the 2016 U.S. Popular Vote reported as follows:

• Donald Trump | 62,985,134 | 45.93%
• Hillary Clinton | 65,853,652 (+2,868,518 votes) | 48.02% (+2.09)

• Shift from 2012 (re-election for Democratic U.S. President Barack Obama +4,984,100 and +3.86): Republican +2,115,582 votes +1.77 percentage points. (Over +1.6 million of those +2.1 million shifted votes—nearly 80 percent of his national shift—came from Trump’s Republican pickup states from the Rust Belt: Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.)

Bottom line: You essentially stating that Hillary Clinton won a 2016 Democratic hold of the U.S. Popular Vote—as if that is all that matters—is stating that while not understanding the Electoral College and/or with an understanding of how one U.S. presidential election experiences shifts from the previous presidential election cycle. 2016 Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton underperformed the 2012 re-election of Democratic U.S. President Barack Obama.

 

[eastofeden]

We should have an honest and open discussion on why she lost and try to fix it for the future. This may not have been Clinton. He or she could be Joe Biden, Tim Kaine or whoever who did the same thing she did. Lessons must be learned so same mistakes will not be repeated all over again. This is not fixation, complaining, hating or holding grudges.

Do you think you have highlighted the only lessons to be learned?

That is the problem actually.....coming from the "Progressives"....

For instance...there are many but I choose the most serious one...I rarely or never even hear any of you acknowledge the Russians and the role they played. That is a very serious problem..and if you refuse to address it...do you think they are just gonna "play nice" and leave us alone in the future?

A couple months ago they hacked our Nuclear Power Plants......

I am not going to repeat what they did in the election cycle. The people who care already know..and the people who don't have decided to call it Fake News...

...and ignoring THAT will kill your chances at getting anywhere close to what you want...count in it...and you will be directly responsible for the loss if you think you can call it fake news and move along...

 

[CoolBlue71]

Having won some 3 million votes more than Trump evidences that she [Hillary Clinton] was more popular than Trump.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in [20] states, plus District of Columbia, which combined for a mathematical [232] electoral votes. Since [270] electoral votes are the number required for election/re-election to the presidency of the United States…Hillary Clinton is not the 45th president of the United States. So, in case you’re still not understanding this, Hillary Clinton did not win the 2016 United States presidential election.

 

[kallipolis]

^I have merely reminded the reader that Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote helping the reader appreciate that Hillary Clinton was the more popular of the two candidates. The rest is petty detail that may mesmerize those driven by a perceived need to address their personal prejudices daily rolled out here for our edification.

I am well aware of the role of the Electoral College.

 

[kallipolis]

So, in case you’re still not understanding this, Hillary Clinton did not win the 2016 United States presidential election.

In Greece we also use the Internet, radio, television, and Twitter to follow events around the globe.

 

[CoolBlue71]

I “merely reminded” you, and everyone else who also needs such reminding, why there was a split with the outcomes of the Electoral College and the U.S. Popular Vote from the United States presidential election of 2016.

 

[kallipolis]

^Already known to me, and others who followed the election closely by reading American newspapers, watching American television stations, and discussing those matters in detail on this forum.

The fact remains that Hillary Clinton won more votes across the nation, than did Donald Trump....making her the more popular candidate despite the role of the Electoral College.

 

[Benvolio]

^Already known to me, and others who followed the election closely by reading American newspapers, watching American television stations, and discussing those matters in detail on this forum.

The fact remains that Hillary Clinton won more votes across the nation, than did Donald Trump....making her the more popular candidate despite the role of the Electoral College.

Not if you word it that way. Trump recieved more votes in the 49 state group other than California.

 

[CoolBlue71]

The fact remains that Hillary Clinton won more votes across the nation, than did Donald Trump....making her the more popular candidate despite the role of the Electoral College.

“The fact remains”…winning the Electoral College is winning election/re-election to the presidency of the United States.

Hillary Clinton did not win the Electoral College from the United States presidential election of 2016.

Hillary Clinton is not the 45th president of the United States.

The 45th president of the United States is the person who won the Electoral College: Donald Trump.

 

[TickTockMan]

Thus far Trump's work has produced failure, after failure. Some work, some disaster.

I never said they were good at it.

^I would not bother, i gave up, on this subject he has proven that he is more than happy to cut off his nose, to spite his face.

Nice to see you again.



The same can be said about you. All you care about is if they have a "D" behind their name. You don't care what they actually work for.

 

[TickTockMan]

What are we, 9 months since she lost? And you guys can't help but sill find something to complain about when it comes to her? Do you really have that much hatred of an individual or hold grudges that much?

As much as she might have not been a good candidate in certain people's eyes, the way people keep harping on her doesn't speak well on your character either.

It's not about her. She is just the last standard bearer and was caught cheating which pissed off the base. It is about the party in general trying their best to hold on to their donors whole ignoring the regular public.

 

[MystikWizard]

Without the Electoral College, why bother campaigning anywhere else? Just go to California and New York every election year and let them decide the election every time.

That is why the Electoral College exists. Again, Democrats have had no problem winning it in the past as demonstrated. So just because one candidate doesn't win, we're saying "we need to change the rules" and give the most populous states even more voting power than they already have?

This forces candidates to get out across American instead of just concentrating on two states. Some of our candidates last year understood that, and others took the support of all of those states for granted and opted not to visit.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's not about her. She is just the last standard bearer and was caught cheating which pissed off the base. It is about the party in general trying their best to hold on to their donors whole ignoring the regular public.

Exactly. Hillary may be gone, but the party is still acting like her.