Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats [MERGED]

[opinterph]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

I don't really know where you are going with that …

I wondered why the thread title and opening post included terms such as, “now seen” and “[it’s] become evident.” After all, the polls mentioned in the linked article aren’t really “new” news. So I looked a bit closer at the article’s author and the site from which it is published.

Glenn Greenwald and his neoliberal free-market zealot recluse billionaire funder share a mutual interest in protecting Edward Snowden. Given the candidate positions on Snowden, it follows that Mr. Greenwald would support Sanders.


Trump

“I think he’s a terrible traitor, and you know what we used to do in the good old days when we were a strong country? You know what we used to do to traitors, right?” Trump asked.

“Well, we used to kill them, Donald,” Fox host Eric Bolling responded.


“I think he’s a total traitor and I would deal with him harshly. And if I were president, Putin would give him over.”


Clinton

“He broke the laws of the United States. He could have been a whistleblower; he could have gotten all the protections of a whistleblower. He chose not to do that. He stole very important information that has fallen into the wrong hands so I think he should not be brought home without facing the music.”

 

[jbrown329]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

I wondered why the thread title and opening post included terms such as, “now seen” and “[it’s] become evident.” After all, the polls mentioned in the linked article aren’t really “new” news. So I looked a bit closer at the article’s author and the site from which it is published.

Glenn Greenwald and his neoliberal free-market zealot recluse billionaire funder share a mutual interest in protecting Edward Snowden. Given the candidate positions on Snowden, it follows that Mr. Greenwald would support Sanders.


Trump

“I think he’s a terrible traitor, and you know what we used to do in the good old days when we were a strong country? You know what we used to do to traitors, right?” Trump asked.

“Well, we used to kill them, Donald,” Fox host Eric Bolling responded.


“I think he’s a total traitor and I would deal with him harshly. And if I were president, Putin would give him over.”


Clinton

“He broke the laws of the United States. He could have been a whistleblower; he could have gotten all the protections of a whistleblower. He chose not to do that. He stole very important information that has fallen into the wrong hands so I think he should not be brought home without facing the music.”

You might want to see just how the Obama admin has been dealing with whistleblowers.

Obama's war on whistleblowers leaves administration insiders unscathed

Five key political players enjoy ‘virtual impunity’ – while four lower-level figures are in prison or facing time

Since Barack Obama entered the White House in 2009, his government has waged a war against whistleblowers and official leakers. On his watch, there have been eight prosecutions under the 1917 Espionage Act – more than double those under all previous presidents combined.

The Guardian

 

[opinterph]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

You might want to see just how the Obama admin has been dealing with whistleblowers.

I think you raise a valid point. My purpose in bringing up Snowden is to illustrate why Glenn Greenwald’s 877 word article (blog post) in The Intercept may include elements of his own personal bias and to perhaps invite further discussion of The Intercept and it's benefactor.

 

[MystikWizard]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

According to Real Clear Politics, Hillary is currently losing to Trump in Battleground states Ohio AND Florida. Even Pennsylvania has its polling average at a tie.

The DNC made a terrible and arrogant mistake pushing Clinton and it is going to haunt them in the General Election. Anyone with eyes can see the number of people Trump gets to his rallies and it rivals the Sanders rallies. Trump's voters are highly motivated and are passionate to vote against Establishment candidates. The same interest is shared amongst the Bernie supporters.

So the question is who is more despised between Hillary and Trump, and who is going to show up to the polls on General Election day? Trump will have a record turnout with his supporters turning up, and we have already gotten a taste of this in the Primaries. Hillary is not going to draw the number of voters Obama had turnout to support him, and has already pissed off the Sanders voters immensely between her teaming up with the DNC Establishment to rig the election as much as possible against Sanders.

Hillary is in big trouble in a General Election. Huge miscalculation on the DNC's part and the part of Hillary's Feminist voters who are only interested in seeing a Female President.

 

[Alnitak]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

According to Real Clear Politics, Hillary is currently losing to Trump in Battleground states Ohio AND Florida. Even Pennsylvania has its polling average at a tie.

The DNC made a terrible and arrogant mistake pushing Clinton and it is going to haunt them in the General Election. Anyone with eyes can see the number of people Trump gets to his rallies and it rivals the Sanders rallies. Trump's voters are highly motivated and are passionate to vote against Establishment candidates. The same interest is shared amongst the Bernie supporters.

So the question is who is more despised between Hillary and Trump, and who is going to show up to the polls on General Election day? Trump will have a record turnout with his supporters turning up, and we have already gotten a taste of this in the Primaries. Hillary is not going to draw the number of voters Obama had turnout to support him, and has already pissed off the Sanders voters immensely between her teaming up with the DNC Establishment to rig the election as much as possible against Sanders.

Hillary is in big trouble in a General Election. Huge miscalculation on the DNC's part and the part of Hillary's Feminist voters who are only interested in seeing a Female President.

Hillary has been a Democrat and civil rights activist since the 1960s. Bernie hasn't even been a Democrat a single year. You can't expect to join a club and ask them to pass you over veterans who have been there for decades.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

According to Real Clear Politics, Hillary is currently losing to Trump in Battleground states Ohio AND Florida. Even Pennsylvania has its polling average at a tie.

The DNC made a terrible and arrogant mistake pushing Clinton and it is going to haunt them in the General Election. Anyone with eyes can see the number of people Trump gets to his rallies and it rivals the Sanders rallies. Trump's voters are highly motivated and are passionate to vote against Establishment candidates. The same interest is shared amongst the Bernie supporters.

So the question is who is more despised between Hillary and Trump, and who is going to show up to the polls on General Election day? Trump will have a record turnout with his supporters turning up, and we have already gotten a taste of this in the Primaries. Hillary is not going to draw the number of voters Obama had turnout to support him, and has already pissed off the Sanders voters immensely between her teaming up with the DNC Establishment to rig the election as much as possible against Sanders.

Hillary is in big trouble in a General Election. Huge miscalculation on the DNC's part and the part of Hillary's Feminist voters who are only interested in seeing a Female President.

Polls this far out are not really reliable. Hillary will crush Trump in the debates and expose him as a lightweight totally unprepared for the job. After that she will win the majority of moderates.

Also, while there may be some disgruntled Bernie supporters who don't vote for her, there is also a good number of Republicans who have said they will not vote for Trump. Look at #nevertrump on Twitter.

Trump is basically ripping the Republican Party apart right now.

 

[MystikWizard]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Hillary has been a Democrat and civil rights activist since the 1960s. Bernie hasn't even been a Democrat a single year. You can't expect to join a club and ask them to pass you over veterans who have been there for decades.

Well, I will say that it is pretty clear that Sanders voters are the voters the DNC should be trying to court, as they are younger voters and the future of the party. Given what has been seen from the DNC Establishment, whether you think it is justifiable or not, can in all likelihood cost Hillary a General Election win in November. Like it or not, Hillary is not winning any General Election if the Sanders voters don't show up in enough numbers to push her over the top. And that is highly doubtful.

I would encourage anyone who thinks Hillary is in good shape in a General Election to check out the last 5 national polls of her vs Trump on Real Clear Politics, and her vs Trump in Battleground states like Ohio, Florida, and even Pennsylvania. The fact that even Pennsylvania is in play this time is horrible news for the DNC.

 

[MystikWizard]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Polls this far out are not really reliable. Hillary will crush Trump in the debates and expose him as a lightweight totally unprepared for the job. After that she will win the majority of moderates.

Also, while there may be some disgruntled Bernie supporters who don't vote for her, there is also a good number of Republicans who have said they will not vote for Trump. Look at #nevertrump on Twitter.

Trump is basically ripping the Republican Party apart right now.

Believe me when I say that the debates won't matter to Trump supporters. And I can assure you that the number of Republicans who will switch parties will be a tiny fraction of the Sanders voters who will either vote Trump, vote for Jill Stein in the Green Party, vote for Sanders through write-in, or will simply not show up.

Trump is tearing the RNC Establishment apart right now, but the voters are behind him 100% and he is having record turnouts. That support isn't going away any time soon. It is a mistake to underestimate the momentum he has going into a General Election, and I think too many people are taking their eye off the ball. Never underestimate an American public who is disgruntled with politics, as usual.

 

[Alnitak]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Another election practice of Australia we need to adopt - compulsory voting.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Believe me when I say that the debates won't matter to Trump supporters. And I can assure you that the number of Republicans who will switch parties will be a tiny fraction of the Sanders voters who will either vote Trump, vote for Jill Stein in the Green Party, vote for Sanders through write-in, or will simply not show up.

Trump is tearing the RNC Establishment apart right now, but the voters are behind him 100% and he is having record turnouts. That support isn't going away any time soon. It is a mistake to underestimate the momentum he has going into a General Election, and I think too many people are taking their eye off the ball. Never underestimate an American public who is disgruntled with politics, as usual.

The debates won't matter to people who already support him now but they will matter to the undecided middle that nearly always decides close elections.

I can assure you that the rift in the Republican Party right now is far worse than that in the Democratic Party. Republican voters are most definitely not behind Trump 100%, and I've heard from quite a few who are just as turned off as people on the left.

Obviously the extent of the polarization means it will be close since both parties have a high floor of support, but I think Hillary definitely has the advantage.

 

[eastofeden]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

And I can assure you that the number of Republicans who will switch parties will be a tiny fraction of the Sanders voters who will either vote Trump, vote for Jill Stein in the Green Party, vote for Sanders through write-in, or will simply not show up.

.

So basically you are saying what I have been learning slowly. The Bernie Supporters are not on the same side as I am....and they are willing to fuck all of us over.....

Great....

Every single Hillary voter I know will say that they will vote for Bernie.

 

[Alnitak]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Obviously the extent of the polarization means it will be close since both parties have a high floor of support, but I think Hillary definitely has the advantage.

Primary elections have already destroyed the professionalism of American politics on the right. The last thing we need is another group of credulous fanatics asphyxiated by their own acrimony.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

So basically you are saying what I have been learning slowly. The Bernie Supporters are not on the same side as I am....and they are willing to fuck all of us over.....

Great....

Every single Hillary voter I know will say that they will vote for Bernie.

As will the vast majority of Bernie supporters. You can't generalize so much.

I'm voting Bernie in the primary but of course will vote for Hillary if she wins over Trump.

 

[Kabluey]

Believe me when I say that the debates won't matter to Trump supporters...

They'll be listening for the dog whistle...

 

[rareboy]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

Primary elections have already destroyed the professionalism of American politics on the right. The last thing we need is another group of credulous fanatics asphyxiated by their own acrimony.

Pretty much this.

It seems that the US system of selecting candidates is so toxic and divisive that by the time the real election comes around, everyone is trying to swallow the vomit in their mouth.

 

[Rolyo85]

Believe me when I say that the debates won't matter to Trump supporters.

Debates don't matter to anybody's supporters. They do however matter to undecided voters, and Trump has no debate skills whatsoever.

 

[MystikWizard]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

So basically you are saying what I have been learning slowly. The Bernie Supporters are not on the same side as I am....and they are willing to fuck all of us over.....

Great....

Every single Hillary voter I know will say that they will vote for Bernie.

There is a possibility of that, yes. And it has to do with furor over Establishment candidates and willingness to support them. The Bernie supporters are extremely anti-Hillary because they view her as being bought and owned by the Big Banks and Wall Street. The fact that millions of dollars has been donated to her campaign from the Banking industry should be a major red flag, as well as the fact that Mitch McConnell even said he would rally to support Hillary if Trump becomes their party's nominee. That should be very telling about whose interests Hillary will protect.

The reason why Hillary is doing so well is because of a couple things.

1) The DNC Establishment rigging the debate schedules and having them scheduled on off nights to protect Hillary Clinton
2) Media Blackout of Sanders, as the major news organizations have donated to the Clinton Campaign ... even Rupert Murdoch has given to Hillary Clinton in the past ... which again should tell you something
3) Feminist voters who are obsessed/enamored over having a woman President .. and that is pretty much all they care about and voting with who they identify with .. as if it is some American Idol contest (and that goes for women as well as Gay men who more identify themselves with women)
4) The non-college-educated block within the African American community- who would rather vote based on stereotypes of what an old white man must be for and because of familiarity with the Clinton last name, despite what occurred to African Americans and incarceration rates during Bill Clinton's presidency

Not to mention Harry Reid calling in a last minute favor to the Culinary Union leadership in Nevada when it appeared Hillary was in danger of losing, to help boost her with a couple more thousand votes (and there are You Tube videos uploaded which shows that crowds were being let in without being registered).

The Sanders voters are really sick and tired of these types of politics, don't trust Hillary Clinton and find it incredible that others do ... which leads many to believe this overlooking of her past scandals and her Wall Street connections really points to voters supporting her for illogical reasons, such as gender. And make no mistake about it, that plays a huge part in this and the Sanders voters are very much aware of this.

I guarantee you that if a white male candidate would have been involved in half the things referenced above that Clinton has, he would not even be considered as a candidate for a moment. This has to do with gender preferences.

That being said, if the Trump voters are upset over establishment politics, as the same thing is going on in their side of the camp as well, and the Sanders voters are upset over the same thing ... as long as Obama gets his last Supreme Court pick in before leaving office (and I understand there is a procedure that can be done in January to ram it through if need be), then maybe we can all live with 4 years of Trump and teach this voting block, but more importantly the DNC Establishment a lesson that this government belongs to the people who does not appreciate attempts to interfere in elections.

That being said, I am furious right now, not committing which way I will go at this point, but the possibility is definitely there that I will be supporting someone other than Hillary Clinton in the General Election. I do not share this infatuation with voting based on gender, race, etc. that many others seem to. Everyone thought things would be so different when a Black Man was elected, and surprise, the government runs as usual. Why folks think it would be any different with a woman is beyond me. Surprise, government works the same there, too.

Bernie supporters represent maybe between 40-50% of the Democratic voters thus far. It is

 

[eastofeden]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

There is a possibility of that, yes. And it has to do with furor over Establishment candidates and willingness to support them. The Bernie supporters are extremely anti-Hillary because they view her as being bought and owned by the Big Banks and Wall Street. The fact that millions of dollars has been donated to her campaign from the Banking industry should be a major red flag, as well as the fact that Mitch McConnell even said he would rally to support Hillary if Trump becomes their party's nominee. That should be very telling about whose interests Hillary will protect.

The reason why Hillary is doing so well is because of a couple things.

1) The DNC Establishment rigging the debate schedules and having them scheduled on off nights to protect Hillary Clinton
2) Media Blackout of Sanders, as the major news organizations have donated to the Clinton Campaign ... even Rupert Murdoch has given to Hillary Clinton in the past ... which again should tell you something
3) Feminist voters who are obsessed/enamored over having a woman President .. and that is pretty much all they care about and voting with who they identify with .. as if it is some American Idol contest (and that goes for women as well as Gay men who more identify themselves with women)
4) The non-college-educated block within the African American community- who would rather vote based on stereotypes of what an old white man must be for and because of familiarity with the Clinton last name, despite what occurred to African Americans and incarceration rates during Bill Clinton's presidency

Not to mention Harry Reid calling in a last minute favor to the Culinary Union leadership in Nevada when it appeared Hillary was in danger of losing, to help boost her with a couple more thousand votes (and there are You Tube videos uploaded which shows that crowds were being let in without being registered).

The Sanders voters are really sick and tired of these types of politics, don't trust Hillary Clinton and find it incredible that others do ... which leads many to believe this overlooking of her past scandals and her Wall Street connections really points to voters supporting her for illogical reasons, such as gender. And make no mistake about it, that plays a huge part in this and the Sanders voters are very much aware of this.

I guarantee you that if a white male candidate would have been involved in half the things referenced above that Clinton has, he would not even be considered as a candidate for a moment. This has to do with gender preferences.

That being said, if the Trump voters are upset over establishment politics, as the same thing is going on in their side of the camp as well, and the Sanders voters are upset over the same thing ... as long as Obama gets his last Supreme Court pick in before leaving office (and I understand there is a procedure that can be done in January to ram it through if need be), then maybe we can all live with 4 years of Trump and teach this voting block, but more importantly the DNC Establishment a lesson that this government belongs to the people who does not appreciate attempts to interfere in elections.

That being said, I am furious right now, not committing which way I will go at this point, but the possibility is definitely there that I will be supporting someone other than Hillary Clinton in the General Election. I do not share this infatuation with voting based on gender, race, etc. that many others seem to. Everyone thought things would be so different when a Black Man was elected, and surprise, the government runs as usual. Why folks think it would be any different with a woman is beyond me. Surprise, government works the same there, too.

Bernie supporters represent maybe between 40-50% of the Democratic voters thus far. It is

I appreciate the explanation...and I actually have a clearer picture...so thank you.

I think it is time for me to once again check out of politics for awhile. I will be voting for Hillary Clinton in the primary..and I don't have to plug my nose. I have stated my reasons..they are still the same so repeating them a zillion times is pointless. You are free to have an opinion of why I or anyone else is voting for her....I am not going to try to change your opinion. It has nothing to do with me or my reasons though..and I promise you I know myself a lot better than you or any other Bernie Sanders fan knows me.

I don't bother with Tea Party people at all. It is better for me to talk to a wall. The "grassroots" movement was anything but.....

You will learn..or maybe not...how establishment your candidate actually is..on your own. He is tapping in on the anger. Pretending he can do any of the things he is telling you he can do while understanding PERFECTLY how the government actually works having been in it for years....well...good luck with that....

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

...Bernie supporters represent maybe between 40-50% of the Democratic voters thus far. It is

Bernie went down hard in S.C. because he doesn't represent 40-50% of Democratic voters. I think that Bernie fanatics are all busy pretending not to notice that a large part of the Democratic coalition isn't far left, and isn't interested in paying higher taxes so someone else's kids can get free college.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: Hillary Clinton now seen as 'Risky Gamble' for Democrats

So basically you are saying what I have been learning slowly. The Bernie Supporters are not on the same side as I am....and they are willing to fuck all of us over.....

Great....

Every single Hillary voter I know will say that they will vote for Bernie.

Saying and doing are two different things.