Hillary says she will help struggling Americans. Why Should We Believe that she would?

[Hankerin1075]

It's even easier than that.
I live in a higher minimum wage economy.
If hospitals decide to pay paramedics burger flipping wages, paramedics just flip burgers (less stress and responsibility for the same wages). So the hospitals have to pay more to retain staff.

Where I am, burger flippers get $15/hour.
Junior ambulance officers start at $20, rising to around $30 with experience, junior paramedics start at $27, rising to $37 with experience. Not extravagant, not poor.

Workforce dynamics are fluid, and jobs are pitched relative to the minimum wage.

Holy shit! You just gave a relevant answer. Thank you. I didn't seenthisnearlier due to the hate mail. You are on the right track.

 

[Hankerin1075]

Kablooey gave an answer finally. Good deal.

 

[Kabluey]

Kablooey gave an answer finally. Good deal.

You could just google.
I'm gonna ignore you now.

 

[Hankerin1075]

You could just google.
I'm gonna ignore you now.

You're the only one that has responded. I hope to have many exchanges in the future. You seem like a nice guy, when you're not wishing death on someone.

 

[jbrown329]

You should take a deep breath. You need to back off and stop being so hateful.

No, I've taken shit for 30+ years and kept my mouth shut. And it's taken it's toll on me. I refuse to remain silent anymore. If you don't like it, do damn bad.

 

[rareboy]

Holy shit! You just gave a relevant answer. Thank you. I didn't seenthisnearlier due to the hate mail. You are on the right track.

You don't get to do this here.

Don't patronize.

This was explained again and again and you refused to get it.

I think you've blown it.

 

[gsdx]

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if the flipper makes 13-14 what should the EMT make?

You see, this is the way you screw yourself. You take other people's words and twist them to suit you. Burger flippers at McDonald's DON'T make $13 or $14 p;er hour. Those were inflationary wages quoted by the poster.

You really should study up on what 'minimum wage' is and how it works. Employees must pay a minimum hourly wage UP TO a maximum number of hours above which they must pay full-time wages and benefits. McDonald's makes sure they don't. EMTs work full-time and, I'm guessing, 40 hours a week at least. They get their benefits and earn infinitely more than someone flipping burgers at McDonald's.

Now, if someone at McDonald's was working 40 hours a week and getting benefits, you'd have a valid point. They don't. You don't.

 

[peeonme]

So is the real problem stagnant wages at higher pay grades? A burger flipper and the guys that save your life shouldn't be payed the same.

It takes much training to be an EMT, the wages don't seem high enough. The job still attracts people though. I have in-laws that have been and still are EMT's.
They love the rush that they get on a run, they love seeing their pictures on the news (I never hear the end of it), they get to wear uniforms and talk medical lingo and think that you have no clue as to what they are saying.
Then, the part that you don't know about, on a slow day once their rig is clean and in order they get paid for doing nothing but waiting.

So, while the job doesn't pay the greatest, it has it's perks. Money isn't everything. But, lets just say that McDonalds much to your horror started to pay the same money as EMTs make, some people before having to do all of that studying and take he training would (true to human nature) take the easy route, they would go flip burgers.
Some EMTs who have had a rough few days or didn't like their boss would go to the golden arches in spite.

Emt pay would eventually have to go up to lure in new qualified people, yes, competition for employees, diametrically in opposition to employees competing for jobs. One creates demand for workers and thus higher pay, the other produces stagnation in wages.

A good solid ground floor starting wage puts money into the economy.

 

[nsguy2]

If an EMT should make more than a burger flipper, how much more should an MD make than some over-hyped, egotistical pro athlete?

If Lebron James makes 77 million per year, how much should the doctor who saved your child's life be paid?

 

[rareboy]

I don't know why any of us are wasting our time with Hankerin to be honest. He's just another intellectually dishonest right winger who just makes shit up, doesn't provide cites or sources for arguments and loves to play the victim once his opinions are challenged or his nonsense is called out.

I know I'm done.

 

[nsguy2]

I don't know why any of us are wasting our time with Hankerin to be honest. He's just another intellectually dishonest right winger who just makes shit up, doesn't provide cites or sources for arguments and loves to play the victim once his opinions are challenged or his nonsense is called out.

I know I'm done.

I'm hoping it helps keep them off the streets

 

[rareboy]

One of the principles of education is that people should be able to recover the investment they've made in it...factoring in imputed interest, over the same period of time that you would expect to recover other investments...less cost of living.

So if you have invested 50K in 4 years of university and you factor in a return of 3.5% per annum, over a 20 year period it would represent 100K or $5000 per year or $2.54 per hour based on a 1970 hour FTE position. As well, let's factor in lost earning time while in school at minimum wage assuming they could have had a part time job. So $15k per year for let's say 4 years and again amortized over 20 years would look like 120k or about $3 per hour.

So if we can determine for instance that a basic living minimum wage assuming 2 earners in the household needs to be at least $15 for example, the base starting rate for someone with more education as above should be starting at $20.54.

And then you need to factor in the skillset premium which is based on the services provided and the relative skill required.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[peeonme]

@RB, that's a lot of good solid info, thanks.

Might I also so suggest to those who hold some people in disdain because of the work that they do, That one of the principles of working is to make a living, not just to provide service to those that pay us.
It's a 2 way street, you get my brain (hopefully) and body for a period of time in exchange for pay that is sufficient to live on so I can come back and do this all over again tomorrow.
This would include housing, food and some modicum of life's pleasures.

 

[Hankerin1075]

Good stuff guys. I'm glad some are starting to finally get this going. My theoretical scenario pissed off a few people for some reason. I don't get that, but oh well. So I guess the gist is that flippers should make around 13-14? Is that about it? And EMTs about 22?

 

[Hankerin1075]

One of the principles of education is that people should be able to recover the investment they've made in it...factoring in imputed interest, over the same period of time that you would expect to recover other investments...less cost of living.

So if you have invested 50K in 4 years of university and you factor in a return of 3.5% per annum, over a 20 year period it would represent 100K or $5000 per year or $2.54 per hour based on a 1970 hour FTE position. As well, let's factor in lost earning time while in school at minimum wage assuming they could have had a part time job. So $15k per year for let's say 4 years and again amortized over 20 years would look like 120k or about $3 per hour.

So if we can determine for instance that a basic living minimum wage assuming 2 earners in the household needs to be at least $15 for example, the base starting rate for someone with more education as above should be starting at $20.54.

And then you need to factor in the skillset premium which is based on the services provided and the relative skill required.

It isn't rocket science.

You finally put some numbers out there. Thank you. Jesus what was so hard about that? I agree with your assessment. Now, how in the heck would that work in the real world?

 

[Hankerin1075]

I don't know why any of us are wasting our time with Hankerin to be honest. He's just another intellectually dishonest right winger who just makes shit up, doesn't provide cites or sources for arguments and loves to play the victim once his opinions are challenged or his nonsense is called out.

I know I'm done.

I'm just asking questions. Does that hurt your sensitive feelings? I'm not making fun of anyone. I'm just trying to get an idea of where y'all think wages should be. For asking, I've been ridiculed and made fun of. Thanks for that.

 

[Hankerin1075]

It takes much training to be an EMT, the wages don't seem high enough. The job still attracts people though. I have in-laws that have been and still are EMT's.
They love the rush that they get on a run, they love seeing their pictures on the news (I never hear the end of it), they get to wear uniforms and talk medical lingo and think that you have no clue as to what they are saying.
Then, the part that you don't know about, on a slow day once their rig is clean and in order they get paid for doing nothing but waiting.

So, while the job doesn't pay the greatest, it has it's perks. Money isn't everything. But, lets just say that McDonalds much to your horror started to pay the same money as EMTs make, some people before having to do all of that studying and take he training would (true to human nature) take the easy route, they would go flip burgers.
Some EMTs who have had a rough few days or didn't like their boss would go to the golden arches in spite.

Emt pay would eventually have to go up to lure in new qualified people, yes, competition for employees, diametrically in opposition to employees competing for jobs. One creates demand for workers and thus higher pay, the other produces stagnation in wages.

A good solid ground floor starting wage puts money into the economy.

I agree. Wages are not high enough. We need these folks to be paid more.

 

[Hankerin1075]

You see, this is the way you screw yourself. You take other people's words and twist them to suit you. Burger flippers at McDonald's DON'T make $13 or $14 p;er hour. Those were inflationary wages quoted by the poster.

You really should study up on what 'minimum wage' is and how it works. Employees must pay a minimum hourly wage UP TO a maximum number of hours above which they must pay full-time wages and benefits. McDonald's makes sure they don't. EMTs work full-time and, I'm guessing, 40 hours a week at least. They get their benefits and earn infinitely more than someone flipping burgers at McDonald's.

Now, if someone at McDonald's was working 40 hours a week and getting benefits, you'd have a valid point. They don't. You don't.

I set it up from the beginning as a theoretical scenario. My point being, if the flippers got paid more what would happen to the other peoples pay? Would the gap remain? I've still only heard a couple responses to that question. A lot of hurtful insults but not much else.

 

[Hankerin1075]

@RB, that's a lot of good solid info, thanks.

Might I also so suggest to those who hold some people in disdain because of the work that they do, That one of the principles of working is to make a living, not just to provide service to those that pay us.
It's a 2 way street, you get my brain (hopefully) and body for a period of time in exchange for pay that is sufficient to live on so I can come back and do this all over again tomorrow.
This would include housing, food and some modicum of life's pleasures.

This would be great. It's not sustainable in today's world, but I like the theory. Who would have distain for a hard worker? I don't get some people.

 

[TX-Beau]

You finally put some numbers out there. Thank you. Jesus what was so hard about that? I agree with your assessment. Now, how in the heck would that work in the real world?

"...GOLLY GEE, Jiminy Cricket! Someone answered my irrelevant question! Thanks guys for answering my pointless inquiry! Now, I'm going to pretend the answer wasn't one click away the whole time I was using the question to pretend I had a point! Now how in the heck am I going to avoid an actual discussion while pretending to have one! I know I'll repeatedly play obtuse!..."