How can any gay man be a Republican?

[hotatlboi]

I agree. The question then is - who decides Republican policy? Because it REALLY seems like it's fundamentalists at the moment...

It's really up in the air. The GOP is having a civil war right now between the country club rich people, the Tea Party, the social con religious wackos, and a few other factions.

 

[JayQueer]

When you come at me saying I do not have the right to "redefine" marriage, I should not be in the army and what I do is unhealthy, against God and repulsive, you give up the right to be treated with an open mind by me.

1) I personally don't believe that same-sex marriage is a "right." Nowhere in the Constutition, nor in any amendments, is same-sex marriage or gay rights mentioned. Sexual orientation is not classified as a "protected class," according to the constitution or its amendments -- while religion, gender, and ethnicity are.

So technically, we are asking to "redefine" marriage. The question is should we redefine marriage? I believe that, yes, there is a logical case to be made for redefining marriage to include same-sex couples who are in monogamous relationships.

But a lot of the gay people clamoring for same-sex marriage have no interest in being in a monogamous, long-term relationship with just one partner. Look at the number of gay men who choose to stay single, or just look for sex with random guys every night, or live in open relationships with countless other guys. It's very depressing, especially for gay guys like me who want to be in a traditional monogamous relationship.

2) DADT is repealed. So gay people can now serve openly in the military. So that point is moot.

3) Polls indicate that the group of people most likely to believe that "what you do is unhealthy, against God and repulsive," are Black, church-going Democrats.

In fact, it is the Black churches and their congregants in Maryland, over 90% of whom are Democrats and will vote again for President Obama, who will be responsible for preventing gay marriage from taking place in Maryland. They are going to put gay marriage to a referendum, Prop 8 style, this November, and the same people who will vote for Obama again will vote to ban gay marriage because what you do is "unhealthy, against God, and repulsive."

Mark my words on that.

 

[Rolyo85]

Homosexuality wasn't recognized as an existing condition at the time when the Constitution was written. I am not familiar with it, but if anyone could tell me what it says specifically about marriage, I'd be grateful.

And I know that a majority of black people are against gay marriage (which, btw, marvel at the short memory). However, it isn't the Democrat presidential candidate who promises to amend the constitution to forbid gay marriage, and/or to annul all existing marriages...

 

[DigitalFudge]

More important are, what kind of economy should we have?

You won't be worried about the "Kind of Economy" when you are forced to pay out of your ass for things that marriage equality would take care of.

 

[frankfrank]

I hope people who identify themselves as Pro-Life also think that the death penalty is unjust. If you think it's okay for people to die in our penal system then you're not Pro-Life... you're just anti-abortion.

I've always found it interesting that the OPPOSITE VIEWS on these two issues almost invariably go together. It seems to be rare to find somebody who is both "Pro-choice" and "pro-Death Penalty"...or "Pro-Life" and "Anti-Death Penalty." I have to admit that I hold that strange and inexplicable contradiction myself. But why do I, and almost everybody else think this way (or the two opposite things "the other way" on these two issues)?

Would the contradictions still exist if abortions were quite rare (even if readily available), and if the U. S. judicial system was actually reliable enough that those prisoners sentenced to death were always proven to be guilty, without judicial misconduct, corrpution, withheld evidence that may have acquitted, etc.?

I don't think there's a Republican gestalt. I know many generic Republicans who are pro-gay rights or indifferent to them but prioritize their other voting priorities over issues that have no direct impact on their lives.

I've always known people who are well aware of my sexuality, who are reliably Republican, and who support and regard me unconditionally. I can think of four such people in Indianapolis alone. However, I WILL say that there is a tendency for Republicans to disparage gay rights and equality. But, yes, only a TENDENCY - I'm only saying it's statistically more likely - and, while saying that, I'm also saying that some Democrats disparage gay rights and equality as well.

However, loki81, those "generic Republicans" who you know, especially the ones who feel positively toward gay rights, would absolutely be barred from running for any major office in the 2012 Republican Party, if they were trying to run. How often do we hear anything about Fred Karger, other than NEVER?

 

[rareboy]

Being gay is hardly the most important thing in the world and should not dictate your vote. More important are, what kind of economy should we have? Democrats reject Capitalism, so what do they want? How long can we continue to borrow trillionS a year before it comes to a screeching halt? Do we want to replace the people and culture of America with an entirely different people and culture through massive abortion of millions, and replacement through immigration?
How can you possibly vote Democrat whey they do not or cannot tell us what the new economy they want to impose on us will look like?

Democrats reject capitalism?????


That is just bullshit nonsense.

The Republicans balloon the national debt under Bush to unsustainable levels and you think it is the Democrats fault? The Republicans keep pushing the tax rate down to such incredibly low levels that the country is forced to borrow trillions in order to support the Pentagon and the bottom line of Halliburton and you want us all to believe that it was the Democrats who created the mess?

You have to be a Republican poli-op to be regurgitating such lies.

And while you may not think that being a homo with equal civil rights is the most important thing in your life, to have a party that poses an existential threat to one's safety, security and self-worth is the definition of evil in modern times.

Just review your twentieth century history.

The only homos that are voting Republican are the empty headed flag wavers who think that the entire world exists in order for them to buy Christian Dior and who keep cynically propogating the big lie that only Republicans are America loving troop supporting patriots.

 

[Benvolio]

I think a majority of Democrats would probably agree with City boy above in his definition of "capitalism", and he confirms what I said. Democrats reject Capitalism. Whatever it is he wants, it is not Capitalism. The essential ingredient of Capitalism is the economic freedom to pursue self interest. It is that freedom which inspires individuals to work and create, and, yes, get rich. The reason socialism does not work is that it deprives individuals of the freedom to pursue their ideas for self interest. The Democrats think "As long as we don't call it socialism/communism we can do what we want and it will still be capitalism.
Democrat love the golden eggs but they hate that goose.

 

[Rolyo85]

Would you maybe address the relevant issue of rampant homophobia in the Republican Party rather than what capitalism is and who is pursuing it?

 

[rareboy]

I think a majority of Democrats would probably agree with City boy above in his definition of "capitalism", and he confirms what I said. Democrats reject Capitalism. Whatever it is he wants, it is not Capitalism. The essential ingredient of Capitalism is the economic freedom to pursue self interest. It is that freedom which inspires individuals to work and create, and, yes, get rich. The reason socialism does not work is that it deprives individuals of the freedom to pursue their ideas for self interest. The Democrats think "As long as we don't call it socialism/communism we can do what we want and it will still be capitalism.
Democrat love the golden eggs but they hate that goose.

This is false.

And such an utterly unsound argument as to suggest that it is pure poli-op propaganda.

I guess we can look forward to six months of this type of cynical and dishonest drivel.

 

[CoolBlue71]

I'm not surprised there are gay men who are Republican voters. I've pointed out here that, between the two parties, Republicans get the support of male voters before females. Democrats get the support of female voters before males. Exactly what the percentage of gay males who are self-identified Republican voters ... I do not know. But, to repeat, it does not surprise me.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... Democrats get the support of female voters before males.....

Female voters and gay voters.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Female voters and gay voters.

I'm talking strictly the genders. And it is in relation to there being gay Republian voters who are male gay Republican voters.

When it comes to the crosstabs one finds from the exit polls on any type of political race's outcome, involving Republican vs. Democrat, the breakdown of how the two genders voted is easily telling. Also: While we can talk about the vote from whites, from African-Americans, from Latinos, from Asian Americans, from the age groups (18-29; 30-44; 45-64; 65 and above), the levels of income, levels of education .... when you get down to a very bare essential, you come back to this question: male or female? All the rest is just ... more information.

 

[TX-Beau]

The arguments on this board notwithstanding, there aren't a ton of Gay Republicans. Gay Conservatives? There'd probably be a lot more of those if the right wasn't so virulently homophobic.

Here's the truth - like it or not - "Conservatives," and the right in this country DO NOT WANT the support of gay people.

Most gay people see that quite clearly. Even the majority of people on this board who defend the right don't vote Republican.

 

[Kulindahr]

Being gay is hardly the most important thing in the world and should not dictate your vote. More important are, what kind of economy should we have? Democrats reject Capitalism, so what do they want? How long can we continue to borrow trillionS a year before it comes to a screeching halt? Do we want to replace the people and culture of America with an entirely different people and culture through massive abortion of millions, and replacement through immigration?
How can you possibly vote Democrat whey they do not or cannot tell us what the new economy they want to impose on us will look like?

Republicans reject capitalism -- what they like is corporatism... which I will point out is but a short step from fascism.

Republicans are the ones who have run up most of the national debt.

What "people and culture of America"? You mean the fading WASP culture?

I believe in smaller government, less taxes, and more freedom for everyone.

Republicans don't. They believe in big government, so they can make people "behave", more taxes on the poor while less on the rich, and freedom only for those who conform.

I respect our brave men & women serving in our Armed Forces..

Rick Santorum doesn't. Most of the Republican House doesn't.

I hope people who identify themselves as Pro-Life also think that the death penalty is unjust. If you think it's okay for people to die in our penal system then you're not Pro-Life... you're just anti-abortion.

Only one person has the right to decide on capital punishment: the intended victim (or his/her defender) at the time of the crime.

1) I personally don't believe that same-sex marriage is a "right." Nowhere in the Constutition, nor in any amendments, is same-sex marriage or gay rights mentioned. Sexual orientation is not classified as a "protected class," according to the constitution or its amendments -- while religion, gender, and ethnicity are.

Of course it's a right. And it's at the end of the Bill of Rights -- you know that phrase about all the rights not listed? Yeah, it's in there.
It's the same right that allows people to form partnerships in business, have unions, join clubs, and a whole lot of other things: freedom of association. By denying that right, you're being a big-government, anti-freedom authoritarian.

And the whole "protected class" system came about for the simple reason that people don't understand freedom and don't really like it -- except for themselves. See, Republicans on the whole are the pigs in Animal Farm: they want to be "more equal than others". They only tolerate religion and ethnicity as protected by the Constitution because they were forced to. It was the current GOP mindset that made "protected class" a necessary approach -- because they won't grant liberty to anyone they don't absolutely have to.

So technically, we are asking to "redefine" marriage. The question is should we redefine marriage? I believe that, yes, there is a logical case to be made for redefining marriage to include same-sex couples who are in monogamous relationships.

So you really are a big-government authoritarian.

You say you believe in freedom, but you keep wanting to restrict it. I'll tell you something: if you want to restrict it, you don't believe in freedom. The freedom position would be that people are allowed to engage in whatever committed relationships they desire, and the government would just acknowledge those. That's what people who believe in freedom see as the government's job: shut up, get out of the way, and let people run their own lives. You, on the other hand, want to dictate people's intimate relationships!

But a lot of the gay people clamoring for same-sex marriage have no interest in being in a monogamous, long-term relationship with just one partner. Look at the number of gay men who choose to stay single, or just look for sex with random guys every night, or live in open relationships with countless other guys. It's very depressing, especially for gay guys like me who want to be in a traditional monogamous relationship.

So what, other than mere bigotry, makes any difference to you how they decide to live their lives? How do open relationships (or triads, or chains, or whatever) bother you? They're not living in your house, are they?

You have every right to want a monogamous relationship. You have no right whatsoever to even entertain the notion of telling other people what sort of relationships they can have! You do not own them.

3) Polls indicate that the group of people most likely to believe that "what you do is unhealthy, against God and repulsive," are Black, church-going Democrats.

No, it's 'evangelicals', of which black church-going Democrats are a subset.


With your views, you land far closer to authoritarian than to believing in liberty. What you actually believe in is the liberty to make everyone else conform to the way you like things. And that's called tyranny.

 

[TX-Beau]

What's the line from Atwood's A Handmaids Tale:


"...before you had freedom to, now you have freedom from..."

It's kinda scary that lines from that particular dystopia can be applied to a major party.

 

[JB3]

The arguments on this board notwithstanding, there aren't a ton of Gay Republicans. Gay Conservatives? There'd probably be a lot more of those if the right wasn't so virulently homophobic.

Here's the truth - like it or not - "Conservatives," and the right in this country DO NOT WANT the support of gay people.

Most gay people see that quite clearly. Even the majority of people on this board who defend the right don't vote Republican.

I like that you used "conservatives" in quotes to describe these whackadoodles.

I know a few actual conservatives from my college days, and they're as supportive of gay marriage and equal rights as anyone I know.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I think a majority of Democrats would probably agree with City boy above in his definition of "capitalism", and he confirms what I said. Democrats reject Capitalism. Whatever it is he wants, it is not Capitalism. The essential ingredient of Capitalism is the economic freedom to pursue self interest. It is that freedom which inspires individuals to work and create, and, yes, get rich.

Then that's clearly the line isn't it. To you economic freedom means make money at all costs with no regard to the consequences for individuals or damage done to society as a whole. As long as you can get rich by any means that's capitalism by your definition.

I am certainly for economic freedom. I am for fair and honest capitalism that allows one the freedom to make it on their own by their own hard work and ingenuity, not by taking unfair advantage and screwing everybody else. And I'm for regulation that benefits the country as a whole and controls abuse, greed and corruption. If you call honesty and fairness socialism...I think you need to re-evaluate.

If you go too far left or too far right you create the same abuse, corruption, deception, fraud and greed. Socialism is just as bad corporatist capitalism in terms of effects on society and people. You need something in the middle to reign in the greed but still give people freedom of opportunity. Otherwise you turn the economy into what is in effect, organized crime under the control a few powerful people.

 

[chrisrobin]

How can any gay man be a Republican?

Very easily. The folks who turned in the Frank family (remember Anne Frank?) were members of the Schutzstaffel (SS). They were Jews.

 

[Kulindahr]

Quoted for excellence.

You summed up the Republican Party in one sentence, Kulindahr. Well done.

I used to be one, right up through Reagan. I was on the scene when the 'evangelicals' started organizing their coup. But I was one of those who realized, as a founder of Oregon's Christian Coalition sounded out loudly, that politics is not part of God's call for America. We were reviled and shunned because of it.

They are not conservatives, they do not believe in small government, and they are utterly without compassion.

 

[Kulindahr]

Then that's clearly the line isn't it. To you economic freedom means make money at all costs with no regard to the consequences for individuals or damage done to society as a whole. As long as you can get rich by any means that's capitalism by your definition.

I am certainly for economic freedom. I am for fair and honest capitalism that allows one the freedom to make it on their own by their own hard work and ingenuity, not by taking unfair advantage and screwing everybody else. And I'm for regulation that benefits the country as a whole and controls abuse, greed and corruption. If you call honesty and fairness socialism...I think you need to re-evaluate.

If you go too far left or too far right you create the same abuse, corruption, deception, fraud and greed. Socialism is just as bad corporatist capitalism in terms of effects on society and people. You need something in the middle to reign in the greed but still give people freedom of opportunity. Otherwise you turn the economy into what is in effect, organized crime under the control a few powerful people.

No economic system can work unless there is honor, honesty, humility, fairness, justice, and compassion. That's the reason the Founding Fathers -- who despised unfettered capitalism, BTW -- valued religion in society: it's supposed to be a seasoning, a restraint, a fence for the conscience that keeps people regarding each other as brothers.

Today's Republicans have forgotten our origins. They do NOT know the heritage of the Founding Fathers. In their pursuit of shaping society by religion they pervert both the Gospel and the Constitution.

Religions that pursue political power all follow a singular path toward corruption. The course can only end in de facto devil worship as they regard only themselves as worthy of rights. It's why so many are "My country, right or wrong!" -- they are self-righteous in their own lives, so they are self-righteous about country (Gingrich in his recent behavior is a perfect example).