How does one get a hundred million in their IRA?

[White Eagle]

How in the fuck did Romney get 100 million into his IRA? Like Hullabaloo says "The luckiest man in world" or is he the most dangerous man in the world?
Read this and tell me what you think.
There is a video at the link that I can't get into the thread.

Hullabaloo

Hullabaloo

Wednesday, July 04, 2012


The luckiest man in world

by digby

Here's an excellent question. How does one get a hundred million in their IRA?

He may have generated a return of of 30% a year to reach $100 million. Or, in a possibility Kleinbard calls troubling, Romney may have rigged the system. “Complete disclosure would clairfy it,” Kleinbard says. One possibility is that Romney put the money into funds he controlled, then sold them at prices he set. “The question is, did he set the prices at an honest, fair market value? Or did he lowball the prices?”

 

[Telstra]

I don't understand why do rich people want power in America ?

In Australia, rich people are shy away from politics in fear of average people criticizing about their wealth.

 

[palbert]

By being a robber baron.

 

[justdra]

ROFL, you must be watching MSNBC, I swear I just seen this story, lol.

 

[Kulindahr]

The only way to achieve that is to be manipulating the system in an illegal fashion.

 

[jackoroe]

Well, if he did it illegally bring a charge and have a trial. Otherwise, it's his money. Who cares?

 

[Kulindahr]

Anyone who understands that the IRA was created as a way for those who have trouble saving for retirement to do so more easily, and not as a way for vulture capitalists to hide from paying their fair share should care.

 

[andysayshi]

Well, if he did it illegally bring a charge and have a trial. Otherwise, it's his money. Who cares?

It's impossible to determine what he's done legally and what he hasn't without full disclosure. He has the money to hire the best accountants and lawyers in the business to suppress what he must reveal - and he does.

Vanity Fair have a piece this month which raises extraordinary facts, and even more unanswered questions, about Romney's wealth and offshore holdings.

Here's The Progress Report's top 5 from the article:

1. Romney owns a corporation in Bermuda, which is now held in a blind trust by his wife. The corporation's function, assets and wealth are entirely undisclosed, and needn't be by Bermuda law, which is why Bermuda is a famed tax shelter.

2. Romney uses special tax-free stocks to inflate his retirement account. When Bain bought and sold companies, it gave employees high-revenue shares of the business. These shares went straight into Romney’s IRA, so they were untaxed profits. And since they started off low, the shares were seen as being below contribution limits — despite the fact that they promptly grew into a large fortune.

3. Romney’s blind trusts are not-so-blind. Ann and Mitt Romney keep their investments in a “blind trust,” which means that they avoid making investment decisions that may impact their political work. But the Romney’s blind trust, which is run by their personal lawyer, includes investments in a company owned by their own son.

4. Romney uses a so-called “blocker corporation” to avoid taxes on his IRA. Though Romney says his investments in the Cayman Islands do not help him lower his tax bill, Romney’s IRA appears to have invested in an offshore corporation which then invests in U.S. businesses, to avoid paying the the U.S.’s Unrelated Business Income Tax.

5. Bain Capital helped financial fraudsters dodge taxes. Bain received investments from “the newspaper tycoon, tax evader, and fraudster Robert Maxwell” (who has since died), as well as other financial oligarchs, which helps provide them “with additional ways to skip around tax, disclosure, and regulatory requirements that they might trigger if they invested directly.”

 

[Jack Springer]

Another hate people who are rich thread.

Give it a rest.

 

[jackoroe]

Anyone who understands that the IRA was created as a way for those who have trouble saving for retirement to do so more easily, and not as a way for vulture capitalists to hide from paying their fair share should care.

Another talking point. What's the number? He's paying income taxes which is more than 47% of Americans do. What about their fair share? Should it be 0%?

We should be more concerned about what this government is doing with our money. Not what any citizen is doing with their money.

 

[jackoroe]

It's impossible to determine what he's done legally and what he hasn't without full disclosure. He has the money to hire the best accountants and lawyers in the business to suppress what he must reveal - and he does.

Vanity Fair have a piece this month which raises extraordinary facts, and even more unanswered questions, about Romney's wealth and offshore holdings.

Here's The Progress Report's top 5 from the article:

1. Romney owns a corporation in Bermuda, which is now held in a blind trust by his wife. The corporation's function, assets and wealth are entirely undisclosed, and needn't be by Bermuda law, which is why Bermuda is a famed tax shelter.

2. Romney uses special tax-free stocks to inflate his retirement account. When Bain bought and sold companies, it gave employees high-revenue shares of the business. These shares went straight into Romney’s IRA, so they were untaxed profits. And since they started off low, the shares were seen as being below contribution limits — despite the fact that they promptly grew into a large fortune.

3. Romney’s blind trusts are not-so-blind. Ann and Mitt Romney keep their investments in a “blind trust,” which means that they avoid making investment decisions that may impact their political work. But the Romney’s blind trust, which is run by their personal lawyer, includes investments in a company owned by their own son.

4. Romney uses a so-called “blocker corporation” to avoid taxes on his IRA. Though Romney says his investments in the Cayman Islands do not help him lower his tax bill, Romney’s IRA appears to have invested in an offshore corporation which then invests in U.S. businesses, to avoid paying the the U.S.’s Unrelated Business Income Tax.

5. Bain Capital helped financial fraudsters dodge taxes. Bain received investments from “the newspaper tycoon, tax evader, and fraudster Robert Maxwell” (who has since died), as well as other financial oligarchs, which helps provide them “with additional ways to skip around tax, disclosure, and regulatory requirements that they might trigger if they invested directly.”

You're right. We've got absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing. He's absolutely guilty of being a successful businessman.

 

[JayHawk]

Hmm using offshore accts to hedge your wealth and not pay US taxes sounds very American and exactly what we need at the top... another shakedown artist.

I wonder WHY if he is so above board he isn't releasing all of his tax information as was made standard by his father? Perhaps they indicate aspects the candidate would rather keep hidden?

But yeah he is just a private wealthy citizen getting bent over by the liberal man. Poor fella!

 

[JayHawk]

P.S. I hope when he finally does release his returns the Left labels it fake and a lie. Maybe we can even get a liberal state Attorney to acuse another states attorney of being a liar.

Let the games begin!

 

[Kulindahr]

Another talking point. What's the number? He's paying income taxes which is more than 47% of Americans do. What about their fair share? Should it be 0%?

We should be more concerned about what this government is doing with our money. Not what any citizen is doing with their money.

Money that should go to the government as taxes IS "our money". Romney is keeping back money that ordinary people would have paid. So he has out money, which makes him a thief. And with the country in the financial trouble it is, it also makes him anti-American -- a conclusion strengthened by the fact that he does not espouse any policies that would reduce the debt, nor encourage his fellow wealthy to be patriotic and pitch in to do something.

 

[jackoroe]

Money that should go to the government as taxes IS "our money". Romney is keeping back money that ordinary people would have paid. So he has out money, which makes him a thief. And with the country in the financial trouble it is, it also makes him anti-American -- a conclusion strengthened by the fact that he does not espouse any policies that would reduce the debt, nor encourage his fellow wealthy to be patriotic and pitch in to do something.

Did he keep the money lawfully or not? What evidence do you have that Romney has evaded his tax obligation and broken any laws? If there's a charge to be made, have at it. Otherwise, it's just more hot air from people who hate Capitalism.

You and Biden are both wrong. Paying more in taxes isn't patriotic. Given the abject irresponsibility of our government in terms of fiscal prudence, it actually a stupid thing to do.

 

[andysayshi]

You're right. We've got absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing. He's absolutely guilty of being a successful businessman.

You don't consider it wrong that a man who claims to love America ships millions of dollars to other nations so as to avoid paying his share of federal taxes? You don't consider it wrong that a man with a DISCLOSED wealth of more than a quarter billion dollars pays less than 15% tax on his annual income? You don't consider it wrong that a 65 year old man has amassed an Individual Retirement Account of over $100 million dollars from share holdings that would otherwise be subject to taxation? You don't consider it wrong that he has offshore investments in his IRA (tax free!) that are in turn re-invested back in the US, thus avoiding Unrelated Business Income Tax he would have to pay if he made those US investments directly?

It must be great to be rich enough to have the best guys in the business finding the loopholes to protect your bags of cash. It must be even better to have presided over a company who is one of the biggest political lobbyists on record - a company who successfully lobbied to change taxation laws that you PERSONALLY made millions of dollars from.

Maybe he hasn't broken the law. This is not a question of law, Jack, it's a question of ethics. If Romney loves the nation enough to be its leader, why has he done his best for decades to avoid paying his share of taxes, even at a time when US federal tax rates are the lowest in a half century? Does the US want a President who has shown he puts his own interests above his nation's?

 

[Kulindahr]

Did he keep the money lawfully or not? What evidence do you have that Romney has evaded his tax obligation and broken any laws? If there's a charge to be made, have at it. Otherwise, it's just more hot air from people who hate Capitalism.

You and Biden are both wrong. Paying more in taxes isn't patriotic. Given the abject irresponsibility of our government in terms of fiscal prudence, it actually a stupid thing to do.

More red herrings. You should do some studying so you can be a good example of a communicator.

If he's paying at a lower rate than other Americans, he's avoiding his obligations. Hiding behind laws written by the wealthy to give advantages to the wealthy is a right-wing device for making corruption look respectable. And it merely shows that you don't want to see the deficit or debt tackled.

 

[Kulindahr]

You don't consider it wrong that a man who claims to love America ships millions of dollars to other nations so as to avoid paying his share of federal taxes? You don't consider it wrong that a man with a DISCLOSED wealth of more than a quarter billion dollars pays less than 15% tax on his annual income? You don't consider it wrong that a 65 year old man has amassed an Individual Retirement Account of over $100 million dollars from share holdings that would otherwise be subject to taxation? You don't consider it wrong that he has offshore investments in his IRA (tax free!) that are in turn re-invested back in the US, thus avoiding Unrelated Business Income Tax he would have to pay if he made those US investments directly?

It must be great to be rich enough to have the best guys in the business finding the loopholes to protect your bags of cash. It must be even better to have presided over a company who is one of the biggest political lobbyists on record - a company who successfully lobbied to change taxation laws that you PERSONALLY made millions of dollars from.

Maybe he hasn't broken the law. This is not a question of law, Jack, it's a question of ethics. If Romney loves the nation enough to be its leader, why has he done his best for decades to avoid paying his share of taxes, even at a time when US federal tax rates are the lowest in a half century? Does the US want a President who has shown he puts his own interests above his nation's?

Yes. Romney and his ilk would never pledge any more than their 'spare time, spare change, and a bit of a temporary loss of reputation'.

 

[andysayshi]

Paying more in taxes isn't patriotic. Given the abject irresponsibility of our government in terms of fiscal prudence, it actually a stupid thing to do.

Paying taxes is a responsibility. Responsible people who earn decent incomes accept that they must pay for the infrastructure that makes their income possible.

Are you suggesting we withhold tax when we don't agree with Government spending policies? Good luck with that! That's like buying a car on finance, then refusing to make the payments because it doesn't go as fast as you'd like. YOU get to choose your Government's policies in the ballot box. Unfortunately, because of rich men like Mitt Romney, who use their money to out-bid your vote, and to change the laws to help themselves, you end up with the policies you have today, protecting rich men and their US earnings in stealthy offshore accounts and tax havens that average people will never, ever be able to benefit from.

 

[CowboyBob]

Boss [STRIKE]Tweed[/STRIKE] Romney knows how to take care of self. He wants slightly half of the American public to enrich him further. He's had it all but the Presidency so he believes he's entitled to that too.

His campaign is doing a terrible job. He'll be just a bad memory this time next year.