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I Hereby Declare Godwin's Law Null and Void

If it weren't for primary elections, Trump's campaign would never see daylight.

Federalist No. 10 said:
Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths
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zombiekiller said:
I blame the Trump phenomenon on both sides, the liberals and conservatives alike.

Today's liberals are actually more moderate than people think. But as the democratic candidates take more moderate positions, the republican candidates have to take farther and farther to the right positions to distinct themselves from the democrats. This in turn started giving legitimacy to the hardliners and the wackos of their party. Donald Trump is simply taking advantage of that.

I also blame the liberals for this because of political correctness. Let me tell a personal experience of mine.

First of all, full disclosure. I'm an east asian guy. I eat rice all the time. In fact, most white people have no idea how much rice us east asians eat. There's no comparable example here in American food culture.

Last time I was at this gay thing, we had a discussion about stereotypes. I tried to make the point that not all general statements are stereotypes. For example, east asian people eat a lot of rice. The entire room descended upon me with a vengeance. They told me I was offending east asian people and blah blah blah. Um, what's wrong with eating a lot of rice? Were these politically correct white people showing me their true colors, that they were looking down on my people for eating a lot of rice? That they thought it was somehow morally bad to eat a lot of rice?

I can see how such oversensitivity and political correctness, like declaring the Chinese year of the monkey as offensive to black people, can turn people off and make them want to take a hardline stance against political correctness.

Having said that, I'm still convinced that if the GOP indeed nominate Trump, it will be an easy win for Hillary. Why? Because right now we only see those on the far right and the far left coming out for the primaries. In the general election, those more toward the center will come out and rule the day. Most people are somewhere in the middle. Trump's offensive language and hardline stances will alienate most moderates. It will be a sure win for Hillary.
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I agree with this, the so called liberals of today are where Republican moderates where at one time.
Also there are people who "bruise" very easily, they look to be offended and they are.
I thought that I would have seen Trump bite the dust long ago, but he is not just feeding people this stuff, he knows that they already think it and he is just agreeing with them.

We will see where America is really at if he should get the nomination and run against Clinton, I get the feeling that many are somewhere in his camp but won't admit to it. I say this based upon what I hear from all sections of people, not just the red necks.
 
Alnitak said:
If it weren't for primary elections, Trump's campaign would never see daylight.
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Pretty much this.

The current primary process is one of the worst aspects about the modern American political system. It has encouraged all the billionaires to run a horse or run the track themselves....the GOP disaster this year should make the party bosses take a good hard look at how the candidate is chosen.
 
I rarely go back home to visit livening in London I am going in May for a week if any of the republican idiots win I will not set foot there again.
 
I read on my fb feed from American friends that today whilst going to the polling station, there were men outside intimidating voters saying if they were democrat voters, their votes didn't matter.

It is imperative therefore that any and all American voters should get out there and do their constitutional duties and vote. Vote for public servants who believe in serving the people, to make everyone's life better.
 
star-warrior said:
I read on my fb feed from American friends that today whilst going to the polling station, there were men outside intimidating voters saying if they were democrat voters, their votes didn't matter.

It is imperative therefore that any and all American voters should get out there and do their constitutional duties and vote. Vote for public servants who believe in serving the people, to make everyone's life better.
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Campaigners are not allowed within a certain distance of a polling station varying distances by local laws, though usually not enough to avoid some of the walkway to the entrance. They are highly motivated salesmen and can be very aggressive. Because of very liberal free speech law in the US what they are doing may not be illegal.

The alternative is voting by mail, which is universal in the State of Oregon, and widely available in many states including my own.

That being said, there is an unfortunate grain of truth in what those campaigners have said. All in all we have a very sick democracy in America that renders the value of voting questionable:

  • Voting schemes are haphazard and unfair.
  • Gerrymandering has created minority rule in Congress.
  • Moderates live in abject fear of primary challenges.
  • Money flows uninhibited in our campaigns.
  • Voter ID restrictions suppress specific groups of citizens

It is estimated that Democrats will require 55% of the vote to command a majority of seats in Congress because of Republican gerrymandering (state governments draw districts), which also means the primary election is often the only one that matters. Florida's ridiculous voting scheme gave way to Bush's undeserved presidency. Students, seniors, and veterans often do not carry the required ID. Compromise during a primary season is impossible (court nominee hearings).
 
gsdx said:
Not even if they're being paid by the parties to do it?
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No, they aren't government employees, and primaries aren't real elections. It is a vetting process for the internal affairs of the major parties.

There is in fact a law that prohibits voter intimidation - the Hatch Act - violations of which are virtually never prosecuted. I have to guess because gaining new exceptions to the First Amendment is nigh impossible.

Electioneers have free reign to challenge voters, purge registration rolls, issue robocalls, issue misleading mailers, and lie in person.
 
^ Wow. Things are so different up here. Not only are there campaign limits (candidates who exceed the limits face jail time), simply paying someone to do something for the campaign which exceeds the limit makes the party and/or politician responsible. In fact, the former MP for my riding spent time in jail for overspending, even though he claims he did not receive the full services paid for. He was also involved with the Conservative 'Robocall Scandal' in which computers called Liberal supporters at all hours of the day (even the middle of the night). As election day drew closer, the computers began to inform the Liberal supporters that their voting station had moved when it hadn't. Elections Canada received a volume of complaints from voters who went to a voting station which didn't exist.

Del Mastro spent a month in jail, 4 months of house arrest, and, I believe, paid fines for his part in the campaign overspending. Elections Canada couldn't find enough evidence to lay charges for the Robocall scandal.
 
^ The 'campaign spending limit' was actually the undoing of former prime minister Stephen Harper. He announced the fall election about a month earlier than usual. This meant that the spending limit would increase. His reasoning was that the underdog parties would be cash-strapped and probably limited the their cash-on-hand which would have been enough for a normal campaign. However, in Harper's case, the extended campaign allowed Canadians to hear more and more about all of the Conservative scandals and court cases and the war against ISIS. The Conservatives were off to a good start, as were the NDP (who lead in much of the campaign). The Liberals, with Justin Trudeau, lagged behind. Then the NDP campaign fell apart and the Liberals and Conservatives became the focus of attention. By this time, Canadians had been bombarded by the same stupid 'smear' ads on television which, for some reason, focused on Justin's hair. As the Duffy trial gained momentum, Harper's campaign lost it. The 'Government of Harper' (seriously, that's what it was called on Parliament Hill) was no more.

Harper actually sunk his own ship by extending the campaign.
 
Alnitak said:
^^^
...Australia has some good ideas as well, such as compulsory voting.
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It's no bed of roses.
Parties in Australia campaign on lowest-common denominator issues to activate fear and disgust voting, along with Murdoch media.

Given around 90% of the population is of European descent, dog whistle politics about immigrants and hard line stances on foreigners are safe campaign strategies.
 
Kabluey said:
It's no bed of roses.
Parties in Australia campaign on lowest-common denominator issues to activate fear and disgust voting, along with Murdoch media.

Given around 90% of the population is of European descent, dog whistle politics about immigrants and hard line stances on foreigners are safe campaign strategies.
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Political culture is not something easily remedied. It's impossible for us in America to solve it if we don't even have the nuts and bolts of democracy tightened up.
 
Does Trump even know how to smile? He does not inspire congeniality and friendliness with his 'I just sucked a lemon' look.
 
Alnitak said:
The GOP is paternalistic and they like assholes.
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Ah, yes. There IS an uncanny resemblance.

lips.jpg
 
gsdx said:
Not even if they're being paid by the parties to do it?
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Paid speech is covered as well as unpaid.

The reverse, BTW, has been held true by courts; for example, since the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that nudity by strippers paid for their efforts was constitutionally protected as freedom of expression, it subsequently ruled that public nudity when not paid for was also covered by the same protection.

In short, paid or unpaid, speech and expression are the same (unless you work for the government, in which case it opens up a whole barrel of monkeys).
 
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