I Keep Hearing That the US has a Professional Army...

[Lostlover]

Yes, SEALs are top rung -- but there are other top rungs. It's like when someone said in my dad's presence, "He's a very bad cat!", to which my dad observed, "No, he's a very good cat -- he's very good at being a cart; he's just not very good at being human... so don't expect him to be human, expect him to be a cat."

Navy SEALs are very good at being warriors who work in a team. They're in the top one percent of one percent at being warriors. But they're not required to be politically astute.


BTW, I know a former master sergeant who for years was politically opaque; there was no telling where his sympathies or views lay. But once he left the service, he turned into what locally passes for a Democratic activist. That's the way it works: your 3-star general won't give so much as a trace of a hint while he's in, but once he's out he'll be free to do as he pleases.

So did this SEAL.

Dennis Paul Hamm: Police quiz veteran, 55, over 'Obama F*k Off' message painted in large letters on his truck | Mail Online

Everyday it's a slow trickle of news about a vet or someone active. When will America wake up and realize that this trickle is not a trickle, but a waterfall?

 

[Apollo]

You all are again assuming he didn't vet it, the article writers asked the CIA, the CIA is NOT who he would have taken it to be vetted.

Yes it is. A lot of the times, special ops teams, and specifically Team 6, will carry out CIA missions or missions that the CIA is participating in. But it probably would have been a joint CIA/DOD combing of the book.

 

[Lostlover]

Yes, SEALs are top rung -- but there are other top rungs. It's like when someone said in my dad's presence, "He's a very bad cat!", to which my dad observed, "No, he's a very good cat -- he's very good at being a cart; he's just not very good at being human... so don't expect him to be human, expect him to be a cat."

Navy SEALs are very good at being warriors who work in a team. They're in the top one percent of one percent at being warriors. But they're not required to be politically astute.


BTW, I know a former master sergeant who for years was politically opaque; there was no telling where his sympathies or views lay. But once he left the service, he turned into what locally passes for a Democratic activist. That's the way it works: your 3-star general won't give so much as a trace of a hint while he's in, but once he's out he'll be free to do as he pleases.

So did this SEAL.

This 3-Star General was retired and was a provost of a university back east. This was during Hurricane Katrina and there was an uproar about making those displaced from Hurricane Katrina pay tuition and pay out-of-state tuition. He told me that they should pay out-of-state tuition, which wouldn't have made him popular on campus. And during the conversation, he hop-scotched around blaming Bush or FEMA or anything remotely political. I wasn't pressing it, but he could have easily delved into that, but didn't. That's a professional. He put his country first instead of politics.

I blamed Bush and FEMA for Hurricane Katrina like most Americans. So, I don't think he probably disagreed with most Americans' assessment of the event, but he sure as hell didn't show it.

 

[Apollo]

He expressed his opinion on the tuition issue. Looks to me like he crossed the line as a private American. How dare he say what is on his mind which is allowed under the Constitution?! My God! He must be a horrible American and retired Vet for using his constitutional rights!

 

[Lostlover]

What was the original post about again... ?

It was about two of the best soldiers in the military/army doing some unprofessional acts. And there's always news about this. Not just now.

I bet you I can find a new situation about some soldier doing some unprofessional or criminal acts every day for the next week.

 

[Lostlover]

He expressed his opinion on the tuition issue. Looks to me like he crossed the line as a private American. How dare he say what is on his mind which is allowed under the Constitution?! My God! He must be a horrible American and retired Vet for using his constitutional rights!

The tuition issue wasn't political in nature and he was a decision maker at the university. He didn't cross any line.

Being a fucking military birther and taking checks from the government is incomprehensible and unprofessional.

 

[Apollo]

The tuition issue wasn't political in nature and he was a decision maker at the university. He didn't cross any line.

Being a fucking military birther and taking checks from the government is incomprehensible and unprofessional.

Good lord, they are both out of the NAVY and no longer SAILORS. They are receiving anything from the Navy except for probably their G.I. Benefits which is a stipulation of their contract. Lord knows what either of them does for a job now. It isn't being and elite warrior though.

But honestly, at this point you are picking and choosing over words. Ignoring that neither are in the Navy anymore. And going so far as to ignore that they were never in the Army and were never soldiers. Really, you're just playing with people in here and having a little fun. I guess it is a boring day or days for you this week?

 

[Lostlover]

Good lord, they are both out of the NAVY and no longer SAILORS. They are receiving anything from the Navy except for probably their G.I. Benefits which is a stipulation of their contract. Lord knows what either of them does for a job now. It isn't being and elite warrior though.

But honestly, at this point you are picking and choosing over words. Ignoring that neither are in the Navy anymore. And going so far as to ignore that they were never in the Army and were never soldiers. Really, you're just playing with people in here and having a little fun. I guess it is a boring day or days for you this week?

You're working on inconsequential words. The General I'm talking about is retired too and he's not playing the "fuck the government" card especially since he's (and presumably they're) on the government dole.

No, I'm not playing with people. President Obama (PRESIDENT OBAMA) got two death threats this week from active/inactive soldiers. What is fucking funny about that?

 

[Apollo]

You're working on inconsequential words. The General I'm talking about is retired too and he's not playing the "fuck the government" card especially since he's (and presumably they're) on the government dole.

No, I'm not playing with people. President Obama (PRESIDENT OBAMA) got two death threats this week from active/inactive soldiers. What is fucking funny about that?

The retired General is probably recieving retirement benefits for his service. You have to complete a certain number of years to get such a thing. Even then, he can say what he wants if he chooses too. It isn't a slight on his character to have a party affiliation.

Colin Powell is a retired General and he is very clearly a republican and so are a lot of politicians and former Presidents. Eisenhower was a General who, once retired, started expressing his political views and became President over time.

Here is a not so secret secret. Active Duty military members have political views and arent afraid to mention or talk about them. We have discussions all the time on politics and what is happening in the world and our government. We aren't some North Korean military that isn't allowed to think. We are volunteers who joined to serve, and are serving without giving up too much of our free will to think and be as we choose. I know a lot of Marines who don't like the President at all. Won't be voting for him and say so gladly. But they still obey orders everyday and do their job. You can be one without the other I hope you realize?

That terrorist thing is crazy though. haha nasty Army.

 

[Stardreamer]

Yes it is. A lot of the times, special ops teams, and specifically Team 6, will carry out CIA missions or missions that the CIA is participating in. But it probably would have been a joint CIA/DOD combing of the book.

Doesn't matter it is not the CIA he would take the book to it would be the Navy who might consult with the CIA's classification guides in the process if necessary but the organizations manage the checks for their own personnel, DoD personnel submit their works to the DoD organization they belong to for evaluation. I verified it today with a contact of mine in my local security office.

 

[Lostlover]

What a dumb ass. Now this SEAL might face charges. If this is the top 1%, maybe they should look at the top one-tenth of a percent to be SEALS.

PENTAGON MAY TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST SEAL AUTHOR: News from The Associated Press

I could have told his ass that you can't wantonly publish accounts of classified information. What the hell? I wasn't even alive in Watergate and I know that stuff had to be redacted in the aftermath to protect national security.

 

[Kulindahr]

What a dumb ass. Now this SEAL might face charges. If this is the top 1%, maybe they should look at the top one-tenth of a percent to be SEALS.

PENTAGON MAY TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST SEAL AUTHOR: News from The Associated Press

I could have told his ass that you can't wantonly publish accounts of classified information. What the hell? I wasn't even alive in Watergate and I know that stuff had to be redacted in the aftermath to protect national security.

I have yet to see a report that he published anything classified. His offense is publishing without going through the chain of command as established by the terms of his enlistment as a SEAL.

 

[Kulindahr]

I've always been a SEALs fan.

We can debate a particular one, but why the service as a whole?

Is it a debate about who is making it through SEAL training? It's a matter of who has the guts and mentality to survive it. The SEALs remember, like the entirety of the US armed forces, fights to preserve the United States and its government, no matter who is president.

The only way to weed out bad eggs from the SEALs would be to question them politically. How would that go?

As I recall, the SEALs have improved their act since this guy would have first gone in. More education is required for officers, for starters, and rockheads need no longer apply.

I don't think political questioning would be necessary. The MMPI and other tests can weed out some pretty subtle things, and that would suffice.

 

[Lostlover]

As I recall, the SEALs have improved their act since this guy would have first gone in. More education is required for officers, for starters, and rockheads need no longer apply.

I don't think political questioning would be necessary. The MMPI and other tests can weed out some pretty subtle things, and that would suffice.

I would doubt that they even administer an MMPI. I took an MMPI (passed it!) for a job that I had during college. A $400+ billion war machine should be able to afford administration of this test to new recruits.

The standards that the US Army currently has allowed the guy that slaughtered 16 Afghan civilians to get in despite having a $1.5 million judgement against him. I'm sure an MMPI would have picked up some psychological disorders as well.

 

[Lostlover]

I have yet to see a report that he published anything classified. His offense is publishing without going through the chain of command as established by the terms of his enlistment as a SEAL.

From excerpts published all over the web (try Huffington Post), he talked about that helicopter. You know that helicopter no one knew existed that had that special fabric on it to reduce noise in-flight. So this SEAL's respect for not discussing sensitive information is non-existent.

And this guy's disrespectful ass goes on political screeds like saying, "None of us were fans of the president." Now how is that important to the story? Oh, yeah, this is a political hack writing a political book. Great way to represent the country.

He goes on to say that President Obama is taking credit for it. And damn well he should. This Navy SEAL's ass could have been sitting on the couch if it wasn't for the pre-planning of the operation, the intelligence gathering and most importantly, President Obama's approval.

This guy's talking real reckless because he thinks people won't criticize veterans. And he's probably right. David Bergen, an al-Qaeda and terrorism expert, ripped a conservative author a new asshole for spreading falsehoods about Obama with respect to the Bin Laden operation. Unfortunately, he didn't touch up on this SEAL's bullshit.

Sense and nonsense about Obama and Osama - CNN.com

Good read.

 

[Apollo]

I've always been a SEALs fan.

We can debate a particular one, but why the service as a whole?

Is it a debate about who is making it through SEAL training? It's a matter of who has the guts and mentality to survive it. The SEALs remember, like the entirety of the US armed forces, fights to preserve the United States and its government, no matter who is president.

The only way to weed out bad eggs from the SEALs would be to question them politically. How would that go?

He is baiting and trolling right now. That is why he is blasting the entire SEAL community and military as a whole. Even though they are both retired and he ignores post that make sense and destroy his arguement.

 

[Lostlover]

He is baiting and trolling right now. That is why he is blasting the entire SEAL community and military as a whole. Even though they are both retired and he ignores post that make sense and destroy his arguement.

Please quote me where I've blasted the entire SEALS. I have not. What I have asked is that if our army is professional, why are so many arrested for hideous and violent crimes and yet we don't look at who we let in? What I've also asked if that if an elite group of men like the SEALs has so many hacks, what does that say about the rest?

That's what I've said peppered with some comments about this idiot releasing a book. This SEAL is taking credit for a sophisticated operation that killed the most wanted terrorist, and denying others from taking credit. This is akin to a father snipping his newborn's umbilical cord and saying, "I delivered the baby!" No way, Jose.

You keep harping on the employment status. I have relatives serving now that have political leanings. I'm not saying anything about not having opinions. What I am saying is that you should be professional enough to keep them to yourself because you represent Americans of all stripes. FOCUS! Reread this paragraph again.

 

[bankside]

I have yet to see a report that he published anything classified. His offense is publishing without going through the chain of command as established by the terms of his enlistment as a SEAL.

Wouldn't it seem likely that any classified items would not be acknowledged as such?

 

[Lostlover]

I've always been a SEALs fan.

We can debate a particular one, but why the service as a whole?

Is it a debate about who is making it through SEAL training? It's a matter of who has the guts and mentality to survive it. The SEALs remember, like the entirety of the US armed forces, fights to preserve the United States and its government, no matter who is president.

The only way to weed out bad eggs from the SEALs would be to question them politically. How would that go?

I can say that I'm a fan of the people and not the war machine. I respect people enlisting to pay for school or sort themselves out. I can respect that. I know many people that have joined the army only to fight for Military Inc. Jessie Ventura, a former SEAL, and someone I look up to, distinguishes between the men and women who join and the people pulling their strings (usually for a profit).

What I say is that if you love your country enough, can you be hospitable to the President even if he isn't to your liking? Is that too much to ask?

How in the world can you be a birther and a SEAL? How in the world can you write a political, tell-all book after you served the country?

Normally, I would be a little pissed if this was going on in just a state. Like we can laugh at Palin because she represents Alaska. But these two represent the entire country. Worst of all, it's un-PC to criticize the ones that act out. I've yet to see a story on the birther in the "liberal media."

I don't see what's so wrong to say that we should look into who we let in. I can assure you (in fact it's fact now) that that the army has changed the way it interacts with Afghan army recruits after just a few killings of coalition soldiers. (By "few," I mean relative few in comparison with the thousands of coalition soldiers killed.) But when it comes to talking about the people let in, it seems to be off-limits. Why is that?

 

[Lostlover]

The retired General is probably recieving retirement benefits for his service. You have to complete a certain number of years to get such a thing. Even then, he can say what he wants if he chooses too. It isn't a slight on his character to have a party affiliation.

Colin Powell is a retired General and he is very clearly a republican and so are a lot of politicians and former Presidents. Eisenhower was a General who, once retired, started expressing his political views and became President over time.

Here is a not so secret secret. Active Duty military members have political views and arent afraid to mention or talk about them. We have discussions all the time on politics and what is happening in the world and our government. We aren't some North Korean military that isn't allowed to think. We are volunteers who joined to serve, and are serving without giving up too much of our free will to think and be as we choose. I know a lot of Marines who don't like the President at all. Won't be voting for him and say so gladly. But they still obey orders everyday and do their job. You can be one without the other I hope you realize?

That terrorist thing is crazy though. haha nasty Army.

Right. And Powell is a consummate professional who puts the country above politics, even though he himself is a politician. He has spoken out against his own party's heated rhetoric and even quit Bush's cabinet over his disapproval of the Iraq war.

I hope you're not comparing the birther SEAL to Powell.

You should read some of the Wikileaks cables. The Bush Administration and Obama Administration got on Pakistan's case for allowing the Taliban to join the army. We have white supremacists in our army who say they join to get the military know how in case they want to launch a race war. We also allowed a guy in that had a $1.5 million dollar judgment against him and he ended up killing 16 innocent Afghan civilians. While we're not Pakistan, there's still should be some introspection.

It's a little spooky that you mention North Korea. President Obama had to dismiss General Stanley McChrystal for running his mouth about the president in Rolling Stones Magazine. McChrystal behaved as if he was in North Korea as he forgot that the military answers to the civilian government and not the other way around. It's not like in North Korea where the military makes the rules.