I really do feel let down by JUB.

[Kulindahr]

The Moderators springboksfan and snapcat are defending Seth and JD for not responding to excase33's PM's because they (Seth and JD) are "busy" with so many things to do on this site. Be that as it may, "customer relations" or, in this case, "member relations" is an important part of JUB and if Seth and JD are too busy to drop this particular member a few lines, they should have delegated this to one of their Administrators or Moderators.
It's not as if Seth and JD have to run JUB on their own. There are 11 Administrators and 19 Moderators ... that's a total of THIRY people behind the scenes. One of them should have written to excase33 once it became apparent they had a member with a problem that needed addressing.

I was once an aquatics director, which is a rather customer-intensive job, similar to JUB in that.
Under me I had a half dozen instructors, a dozen lifeguards, and another dozen "aides" (translate "gofers").
We had a little over 300 people to deal with -- 32 of us, a number very close to what there is for running JUB.
We were run ragged.

Now, JUB has how many members? or better, how many people on line at once? From experience, I'd say JD and Seth need about three times as many admins, and thirty times as many mods, and another five hundred "aides" who can be assigned to watch particular trouble areas... just to get to the point of sanity for those in charge or helping.

If you've never run a business or had a customer-intensive job where you supervise a work force of over a dozen, it's hard to imagine the stress and complexity of the whole thing.
Look at it another way: I've fallen into becoming the administrator of a very small web site, with less than 0.001% of the traffic JUB gets, and just that can be a headache taking several hours per week. Translate that back, and JD and Seth, if they were alone, would be needing an extra 199,000 hours per week. You really think having thirty people to help out with that gives them the time to respond to individual PMS on anything resembling a regular basis?

I feel let down by JUB myself, sometimes. But I also feel let down by myself on occasion when I was an aquatics director, because, well, I was often too busy to respond to every customer complaint or problem.

So cut the big guys some slack!

 

[Long-Distance-Runner]

Kulindahr, your figures simply don't stack up. For a start, comparing lifeguards and swim instructors with administrators and moderators of a web site is total and absolute nonsense.

And then your next sentence ("I'd say JD and Seth need about three times as many admins, and thirty times as many mods, and another five hundred aides") only serves to drop the credibility of your argument to zero.

JUB is hardly "short staffed." I know quite a lot about running web sites (I co-own one myself), and 30 behind-the-scenes employees and volunteers for a site like JUB doesn't suggest it's undermanned to me!

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the case. The reason JD/Seth did not reply to Excase's PM is not because they don't have time to reply, nor because they didn't have a spare Mod to deal with it. They've simply taken the easy option and ignored him, hoping he would just go away!

This would never happen on the site I co-run, but then, I wouldn't stand for one of my Moderators to fire off such a shitty note to a member, either.

 

[Kulindahr]

Kulindahr, your figures simply don't stack up. For a start, comparing lifeguards and swim instructors with administrators and moderators of a web site is total and absolute nonsense.

And then your next sentence ("I'd say JD and Seth need about three times as many admins, and thirty times as many mods, and another five hundred aides") only serves to drop the credibility of your argument to zero.

JUB is hardly "short staffed." I know quite a lot about running web sites (I co-own one myself), and 30 behind-the-scenes employees and volunteers for a site like JUB doesn't suggest it's undermanned to me!

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the case. The reason JD/Seth did not reply to Excase's PM is not because they don't have time to reply, nor because they didn't have a spare Mod to deal with it. They've simply taken the easy option and ignored him, hoping he would just go away!

This would never happen on the site I co-run, but then, I wouldn't stand for one of my Moderators to fire off such a shitty note to a member, either.

The comparison isn't nonsense at all.
A swim instructor has to pay attention to every last person in the class at all times, a lifeguard has to pay attention to every last person in the pool and area at all times -- and a mod has to pay attention to all the new posts. Posts can come in at rates of dozens per minute in just one forum, which is pretty intense. The deluge is enough that the mods here are swamped just trying to keep up, and in fact they don't -- they in fact depend a lot on the input of members to point things out that should be dealt with.

I don't think you really have a grasp of the extent of what goes on to keep JUB going. The size of the forums is substantial, and the porn side of the thing isn't exactly tiny. As someone who has moderated forums and boards, I constantly shake my head at how well JUB manages to trundle along with the few people it actually has. This is not a board with just a hundred members, or even just a thousand members -- nor, thankfully, is it a board where every post has to be read and approved by a moderator before appearing in a forum; if it were, we'd see message traffic of perhaps five hundred per day, instead of what we actually enjoy. Nor is it even an autocratic board where mods run their little kingdoms in their own ways; they communicate, discuss, and anguish over a lot of their reactions to post reports and other issues. A friend of mine who runs a server where he watches the activity of dozens of message boards says, after looking at the traffic on JUB, he wouldn't take the job of running the place without thirty admins and at least three hundred mods, full time -- the equivalent of three shifts keeping tabs on things 24/7.

And since you're reading minds and motives... share with us why JD and Seth run a board with free access to the forums, when a large percentage of people in the forums do nothing else on the board.

 

[Long-Distance-Runner]

Kulindahr, I find it hard to believe you reiterate your point that JUB needs "at least three hundred mods, full time" to keep the boards in order. This is total nonsense and nothing could be more impractical. Can you imagine the Owners and Administrators trying to coordinate and liaise with such a number? Can you imagine three hundred Mods trying to communicate efficiently amongst themselves? If you want us to take your arguments seriously, you shouldn't come out with such absurd suggestions.

As mentioned, I have experience both as a Moderator and as a Co-owner of a forum, and appreciate that the traffic on this particular board, JUB, is substantial. I also acknowledge that the Moderators do an excellent job, by and large, and are to be commended.

However the members are important too, and their participation contributes greatly to the success of a public board. These members deserve respect and consideration.

As you, yourself, say: "[Administrators and Moderators] depend a lot on the input of members to point things out that should be dealt with.

Exactly, and this is what Excase has been doing ..... he has used the Post Report facility to bring problems to the attention of those behind the scenes. After all, that's what the Post Report button is there for! Granted, Excase may have been over-eager with his reporting, but it has been stated that 95% of his reports were recognized and acted upon. If it was my board, I would have been grateful for his enthusiasm and probably looked upon him as potential Mod material!

I still don't understand why Excase received a PM asking him to cease and desist. Do Moderators regard Post Reports as encroaching on their territory .... do they think that members are trying to do their job. If so, then disble the Post Report facility. You can't invite members to report rogue threads/posts and then reprove them when they do, especially in the manner Springboksfan did.

On my board, all PM's to members (even those who need reproaching) observe common courtesy. And all members' PM's to me or my co-owner are answered, no matter how busy we are.

 

[Kulindahr]

On my board, all PM's to members (even those who need reproaching) observe common courtesy. And all members' PM's to me or my co-owner are answered, no matter how busy we are.

From my conversations with mods here, if JD and Seth responded personally to every PM sent them, they'd be doing almost nothing else.
As for mods responding rudely, it happens -- and it happens because they are overworked and sometimes get tired of it

It's a cycle: JUB needs more mods (for example, CE & P has ONE mod devoted just to that forum, they're stretched so thin), so the mods get worn thin; they fail to treat people as respectfully as they should or can't respond to everything they should (or both); PMs go to JD & Seth, who are too busy to respond to many; people get frustrated and start griping at the mods... so the mods get worn thin, etc. I've watched this loop repeat several times while I've been on the board.

And one reason is that there are some people who just about need a mod to keep track of just them! That's one of the truths behind a thread I started about putting up with ideologues: while a typical batch of a hundred JUBbers can be moderated by just one part-time mod who spends half his or her time on the board watching porn, there are some who all by themselves burn up hours of one or more mods' time.

Of course the cycle isn't quite so straightforward; different mods crack at different times (some never seem to), and watching this, people who could be good mods say "No way!" to the possibility, so JUB remains in need of mods....

As I said, my friend who runs a ISP with several discussion board is amazed that JUB runs as well as it does. Yet even as well as it runs, people end up feeling let down -- and without a lot more mods, that's just going to keep happening.

 

[Andreus]

you guys need to get over this and move on

time to let it rest

really