If it looks like a Higgs....

[Kulindahr]

You're missing the point, which has been spelled out very clearly. They aren't pissed because the boson was found, they're pissed because the US has abandoned their role as a leader in scientific research.

As they should be. Leading in scientific research meant leading in technology meant leading in innovative products meant a good balance of trade.

 

[bankside]

As they should be. Leading in scientific research meant leading in technology meant leading in innovative products meant a good balance of trade.

....orrrrr.....maybe now that the United States has proven that one country can't do it alone, and Europe has proven that multiple countries working together can accomplish great things, perhaps no one should try being the "leader" any more and instead try being a "good team player."

And perhaps cooperating on international projects means creating academic, economic, and social ties between countries, or what we sometimes call "trade." Otherwise known as "wealth."

 

[JB3]

My point, which I've spelt out a dozen ways, is that feeling pissy about this discovery happening outside the US is predicated on the idea that for some reason the US is supposed to be a leader in scientific research. And they haven't abandoned that role, they've been outdone. Lapped. At nearly the speed of light.

No, they've abandoned it. The derelict buildings of the Desertron prove it, as does the decommissioning of the Tevatron.

I think what you've missed as well is that the US WAS the leader in scientific research up until modern history. These scientists have every reason to be upset and angry about that.

 

[Jack Springer]

And? What's your point, besides being a smartass?

Frankly, I'd rather spend $100 billion on bringing online new scientific facilities in the US than on asinine GOP pet projects.

What's to be gained by this? Any practical use?

 

[Kulindahr]

No, they've abandoned it. The derelict buildings of the Desertron prove it, as does the decommissioning of the Tevatron.

I think what you've missed as well is that the US WAS the leader in scientific research up until modern history. These scientists have every reason to be upset and angry about that.

Last I knew the buildings had been sold (and resold) and were in use. What's abandoned is the portion of the tunnel that was dug.

I remember my dad saying it was in the wrong place to begin with, that there were military bases or other government land it could have been on, so if Congress stopped funding it for a while it would be waiting when they came to their senses.

 

[SexyGuy]

And? What's your point, besides being a smartass?

Frankly, I'd rather spend $100 billion on bringing online new scientific facilities in the US than on asinine GOP pet projects.

I would actually direct that money towards funding scientific research, and updating/upgrading scientific equipment. There are a lot of Ph.D. and M.A/M.S. students who would LOVE to have that funding (my classmates included) not to mention the number of public universities and schools (i.e., K-12) that could use it to upgrade their equipment and materials.

Just my two cents...

 

[T-Rexx]

What's to be gained by this? Any practical use?

It is not possible to propose practical applications for that which you do not know exists, and about which you know nothing.

Ben Franklin did not study electricity because he planned to build an electric car, light up the night, or use a computer to process information. But none of those things would have been possible without his efforts. Methinks you would have mocked his experiments if you had been around at the time. They had no foreseeable usefulness whatsoever.

It is a characteristic of great nations that they devote substantial energy to the destruction of ignorance. Not because they understand how enlightenment will be useful. But simply because they know that it will.

It is a measure of failure of the Republican Party that it has been so determined to prevent America from succeeding in this realm. The Republican anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias is a manifestation of that party's anti-Americanism. It has been every bit as damaging to this country as that party's economic policies have been.

 

[Jack Springer]

It is not possible to propose practical applications for that which you do not know exists, and about which you know nothing.

Ben Franklin did not study electricity because he planned to build an electric car, light up the night, or use a computer to process information. But none of those things would have been possible without his efforts. Methinks you would have mocked his experiments if you had been around at the time. They had no foreseeable usefulness whatsoever.

It is a characteristic of great nations that they devote substantial energy to the destruction of ignorance. Not because they understand how enlightenment will be useful. But simply because they know that it will.

It is a measure of failure of the Republican Party that it has been so determined to prevent America from succeeding in this realm. The Republican anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias is a manifestation of that party's anti-Americanism. It has been every bit as damaging to this country as that party's economic policies have been.

So it's just more knowledge -- like learning about the sex habits of ants, the migrant patterns of horse fleas, how many licks does to it take to .....

 

[JB3]

So it's just more knowledge -- like learning about the sex habits of ants, the migrant patterns of horse fleas, how many licks does to it take to .....

Stop being an ignorant ideologue.

 

[Jack Springer]

Stop being an ignorant ideologue.

I'm not against gaining more knowledge, just the wasteful use of funds to spend for the sake of spending the funds.

Ben Franklin studied electricity because he was looking for knowledge -- he did not look for government funding in his quest.

As far as I've read both James Maxwell and Michael Faraday took different paths to their education and did not rely on government funding for their livelihood.

Your ignorance is that you look to the government for all your solutions. Think and do for yourself.

 

[bankside]

I'm not against gaining more knowledge, just the wasteful use of funds to spend for the sake of spending the funds.

Ben Franklin studied electricity because he was looking for knowledge -- he did not look for government funding in his quest.

As far as I've read both James Maxwell and Michael Faraday took different paths to their education and did not rely on government funding for their livelihood.

Your ignorance is that you look to the government for all your solutions. Think and do for yourself.

What people do for themselves is make governments to accomplish these tasks more efficiently than any of us could do struggling in isolation.

Exploration is one of those defining features of humanity. If you feel exploited and enslaved that our taxes go toward funding these kinds of things, oh well.

 

[Jack Springer]

^^

I think that when projects like these are funded by governments the project tends to be a lifetime job opportunity too often.

 

[Kulindahr]

And? What's your point, besides being a smartass?

Frankly, I'd rather spend $100 billion on bringing online new scientific facilities in the US than on asinine GOP pet projects.

For the cost of the first year of war in Iraq, the U.S. could have built a collider with a circumference just able to fit within the Texas panhandle.

 

[Kulindahr]

What's to be gained by this? Any practical use?

That question was asked about Boyle playing with gases, and Darwin studying birds, and Newton playing with prisms, and on and on.

It's the first question of a Luddite.

 

[Kulindahr]

It is not possible to propose practical applications for that which you do not know exists, and about which you know nothing.

Ben Franklin did not study electricity because he planned to build an electric car, light up the night, or use a computer to process information. But none of those things would have been possible without his efforts. Methinks you would have mocked his experiments if you had been around at the time. They had no foreseeable usefulness whatsoever.

It is a characteristic of great nations that they devote substantial energy to the destruction of ignorance. Not because they understand how enlightenment will be useful. But simply because they know that it will.

It is a measure of failure of the Republican Party that it has been so determined to prevent America from succeeding in this realm. The Republican anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias is a manifestation of that party's anti-Americanism. It has been every bit as damaging to this country as that party's economic policies have been.

I have stocks that kept plodding upwards during the recession. I had a simple criterion for picking them: the companies do pure research. My best stock is in a company which not only does pure research, but requires its scientists to spend a number of hours weekly doing something they find interesting, whether or not it relates to their official research. That emphasis has paid off, pointing up something that should be understood by anyone spouting an opinion on research and economics: pure research, especially research directed by pure curiosity, is always profitable -- maybe not next week, maybe not next year, but it is always profitable.

 

[Kulindahr]

So it's just more knowledge -- like learning about the sex habits of ants, the migrant patterns of horse fleas, how many licks does to it take to .....

Knowing the sex habits of ants and the migratory patterns of fleas are items that make serious profits for companies year after year.

Oh -- and candy makers want to know how many licks it takes to finish a piece of candy made to be licked; it helps them figure out how to maximize profits.


Next idiotic objection?

 

[hotatlboi]

I'm not against gaining more knowledge, just the wasteful use of funds to spend for the sake of spending the funds.

Ben Franklin studied electricity because he was looking for knowledge -- he did not look for government funding in his quest.

As far as I've read both James Maxwell and Michael Faraday took different paths to their education and did not rely on government funding for their livelihood.

Your ignorance is that you look to the government for all your solutions. Think and do for yourself.

Private capital is not too big on conducting research just for the gaining of new knowledge.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm not against gaining more knowledge, just the wasteful use of funds to spend for the sake of spending the funds.


Your ignorance is that you look to the government for all your solutions. Think and do for yourself.

There aren't any trillionaires running around the world, that I know of. If we ran science on this country the way you apparently want, we'd all be speaking German and saluting swastikas now.

 

[Kulindahr]

^^

I think that when projects like these are funded by governments the project tends to be a lifetime job opportunity too often.

Really? Then why are U.S. accelerators being shut down?

Even if it is a "lifetime job opportunity", great! That means researchers experienced in what's being studied are around to share their experiences with newbies, while newbies come in and bring fresh ideas. It also means there's more knowledge coming in.


Here's an example of what you'd call pointless research: the doctoral theses of mathematicians. Many, if not most of them, are speculative exercises of "what if", that describe the mathematical landscape of a universe with something about it tweaked. And most of them get filed in archives where no one ever sees them... except that's not the case. All sorts of things in those theses have become useful, as researchers encounter new situations and are looking for math to describe them. Chaos theory and fractals began as curious intellectual exercises, with 'nothing expected to come from it' -- but if you use a cell phone, you're making use of that 'pointless' mathematical daydreaming all the time.

 

[White Eagle]

No comparison intended.