if not for Israel's Iron Dome system, the fight would be much worst ??

[maxpowr9]

^Yes, the Israel-Palestine conflict is essentially a prisoner's dilemma. Each side will choose "defect" instead of cooperate because there is no payout for cooperating.

 

[JayHawk]

Well not entirely Britain's fault... but a good deal...

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/palestine_1918_to_1948.htm

Still it is odd that the majority of the two religions in the area believe that Jews should be in and around Jerusalem and yet they butcher one another for the very act of carrying out their religious text.... very ODD.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I can't imagine a whole lot of people who would like it if after 200 years on their land in the U.S., England came over and gave it back to the Native American tribe that used to live there. Can you? lol.

It's not really a religious conflict and the teachings of the various holy books aren't really pertinent. Take any two religious countries or cultures and put them into geopolitical conflict and they will make it religious on the flags and banners and propaganda, but that's almost never what wars are actually about.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well not entirely Britain's fault... but a good deal...

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/palestine_1918_to_1948.htm

Still it is odd that the majority of the two religions in the area believe that Jews should be in and around Jerusalem and yet they butcher one another for the very act of carrying out their religious text.... very ODD.

Religion has become one of the banner causes, just like here in the US "Creationism," is a banner cause that isn't actually about religion - it's about solidarity and separating "us," from "them." Which is why it's pointless to argue science with a Creationist, because that is NOT the point.

History has amply shown that Jews and Arabs can live together, so what's different now?

 

[TX-Beau]

I can't imagine a whole lot of people who would like it if after 200 years on their land in the U.S., England came over and gave it back to the Native American tribe that used to live there. Can you? lol.

It's not really a religious conflict and the teachings of the various holy books aren't really pertinent. Take any two religious countries or cultures and put them into geopolitical conflict and they will make it religious on the flags and banners and propaganda, but that's almost never what wars are actually about.

You're right, at it's core, it's the same purse fight that's been going on in the Middle East way back into biblical times, complete if I'm not mistaken with terrorism and acts of genocide - if you believe the bible, and one that definitely annoyed the Romans - bands of religious and ethnic cousins, squabbling over the same miserable patch of desert - enough already.

What's going to happen - the Israelis will eventually kill or displace all the Palestinians, there will be a war, someone will nuke the crazy ayatollahs in Iran.

Not an endorsement, just what I think is going to eventually happen.

 

[White Eagle]

Although I'm more on the Palestinian side I admit that in some ways both sides gain from one being so much weaker.

So in the long run both nations will need to have peaceful agreements when giving Palestine the tools to become a strong independent country. This is something Israel has to do in the long run so it can improve it's relations with the region and avoid future wars.

The US as a biased country towards Israel will never be able to negotiate peace between the two. It's pretty pointless to take that path again and again.

The UN thing is mostly symbolic and won't change things on the ground.

Ya know? I will have to agree with you. Palestine should be able to be a country. Israel is being, what do I want to say here?, irresponsible. They, well no, there will never be a solution to this. This has been going on for how many centuries? I do believe Palestine needs to be a country, but Israel needs to get with it and just let them! There! That made sense, didn't it?
Sorry, a lot of Canadian Mist and water tonite.

 

[White Eagle]

Yes like many Liberals you support the Palestinians. The racist gay murderors who want the eradication of Jews and who do not have a legitamate claim to this nation or land. It is Israel which has always sought peace with the Pallys. However the Pallys don't want peace they want blood. Keep defending the people who would cut your face off.

This surprises me. I haven't had a problem with you before this. I thought you came here and made your positions quite well.
Forget my opening to this post, bourbon don't ya know. But I have to point out to you this is quite vicious. Please go back to when you came here.

 

[White Eagle]

You convinced me.

All countries which don't support gay rights should be occupied by the ones that do.

Really cheap move of you to play the gay card. Just because I believe the Palestinian's deserve to be independent it does not have to mean I'm a fan of their culture. Plus oppressing and isolating nations will always increase extremism. It's pretty ironic to keep them imprisoned on their own land and then complain about them being extremists.

And please don't generalize.

I'm hearing you bro.

 

[White Eagle]

Well they are fairly imprisoned... but when they seek to smuggle things in they don't smuggle medicine or foods... nope they smuggle missiles.

They are not imprisoned on their own land. They don't have a land. If they didn't actually desire the demise of Israel they could have been living in relative success and prosperity with the Jews, Bedouin and Arabs that live in Israel.

Oh, God! I guess I need to go to bed.
It's been a bad nite.

 

[White Eagle]

I'm not sure how Hamas can have a place at the table; isn't their mandate defective anyway? That doesn't make Israel's continuing occupation any more valid, but it kind of shows the shit storm on both sides.

Educate me. Is there another entity other than Hamas in the Palestinian arena?

 

[White Eagle]

"Weird view"?



http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/hamas-official-stand-on-homosexuality-below-should-liberals-defend-hamas/question-3332705/


This from a Hamas leader:



http://www.frumforum.com/hamas-leader-west-cannot-criticize-islam/

I've been way out of my league tonight. But isn't my disagreement against Hamas and not about the other.
Hey, I haven't seen any answer about who else is there. Sorry, I confuse tonight.

 

[bankside]

Educate me. Is there another entity other than Hamas in the Palestinian arena?

Yes; absolutely. Fatah - the organisation formerly headed by Yasser Arafat, and currently headed by Mahmoud Abbas, the President of Palestine. Hamas merely won parliamentary elections and then basically conducted a civil war to control Gaza without consulting the legal President. Fatah continues to control the West Bank and the bulk of Palestinian territory (except for Israeli colonial incursions of course).


Partly what we have seen in the last week is Hamas trying to convince Palestinians to shoot its way to statehood (an approach which deserves to fail), and Fatah trying to convince Palestinians to negotiate and use the tools of diplomacy (an approach encouraged by the UN, obviously, and which deserves to succeed.) This doesn't suit the madman Israeli prime minister Netanyahu, who "retaliated" by ordering more colonisation of Palestine by Israeli extremist theocrats.

I was delighted to see France and the UK recall their ambassadors to Israel to object . Something the US and Canada should have done as well.

The best chance for peace comes from the electoral failure of Hamas and Netanyahu, with a successful showing by Abbas, and probably Tzipi Livni on the Israeli side. So hopefully they'll all have elections soon.

 

[White Eagle]

Chick-fil-a is tasty for fast food and the owner is free in the country I live in to donate to whom he wishes... just as I am free to not eat his chicken...

Amen and more, cuz I think I need to come up to 10 characters, which I guess I passed that, huh?

 

[White Eagle]

Are we hating on Buddhists this week? No one sent me the memo.

The Palestinian problem isn't about religion, or at least no JUST about religion - religion is used as a proximate cause but there are a whole lot of things both sides hate each other for that aren't about that.

I suppose if we wanted to be fair, the actual genesis of the present situation was the original partition of Palestine, and the wholesale importation of European Jews whose only claim to Palestine was like a thousand years old. That certainly had nothing to do with Islam, and I can see how the Palestinians might get a little miffed with all these self entitled Europeans walking in like they owned the place because other Europeans turned out to be Jew hating monsters.

OK!

Well JUB wants me to say more!

 

[White Eagle]

I can't imagine a whole lot of people who would like it if after 200 years on their land in the U.S., England came over and gave it back to the Native American tribe that used to live there. Can you? lol.

It's not really a religious conflict and the teachings of the various holy books aren't really pertinent. Take any two religious countries or cultures and put them into geopolitical conflict and they will make it religious on the flags and banners and propaganda, but that's almost never what wars are actually about.

I can't imagine a whole lot of people who would like it if after 200 years on their land in the U.S., England came over and gave it back to the Native American tribe that used to live there.

I got over it!

 

[xbuzzerx]

I got over it!

The conflict between the colonial powers/colonies and Natives spanned about 3~ centuries.

Israel's been around for well under 1.

 

[Kulindahr]

Maxpwr you kinda nail my opinion... religion in general is the base reason so many die and so many more will die. It is sad really when the basic tenant of all religions is peace....

That's "tenet", a seriously-held belief. A "tenant" is someone residing on some premises.

If peace really were a "tenant" of all religions, we wouldn't have any problems. Unfortunately, although it is a tenet, it is also frequently a shunned cousin.

 

[Kulindahr]

You're right, at it's core, it's the same purse fight that's been going on in the Middle East way back into biblical times, complete if I'm not mistaken with terrorism and acts of genocide - if you believe the bible, and one that definitely annoyed the Romans - bands of religious and ethnic cousins, squabbling over the same miserable patch of desert - enough already.

What's going to happen - the Israelis will eventually kill or displace all the Palestinians, there will be a war, someone will nuke the crazy ayatollahs in Iran.

Not an endorsement, just what I think is going to eventually happen.

One thing that baffled the Romans was how some particular piece of land could be considered "holy". Too bad they didn't stamp the concept out.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Really so you support prison states because you have some weird view they are anti-gay. Hamas is not the only party within Palestine nor does it represent that many of the peoples political views. What is does offer is organization against an oppressive imperialist state stealing their land.

It is not a weird view that they are anti gay. They are anti gay, they cut gay people's faces off and brutally torture them.

Hamas does represent much of the radical Islam of the area. Further more the Israelis are not stealing their land. The land rightfully belongs to Israel. It always had a strong Jewish presence even when the Arabs and the Romans displaced much of the Jews. Further more there never was a nation called Palestine. They were always under foreign rule by such peoples as the Ottomans and Jordanians. It was only when they Jews were given back their land and the Pallys could be potentially under Jewish rule did these hateful Muslims reject. Point in fact the Pallys could have their land if they would make peace with Israel. However they do not want peace they want the destruction of all Jews and Israel. Palestine is a prison state chiefly because of Hamas and their terrorist practices and in reality they are the reason why they have no land because the Israelis must occupy it to protect themselves.

Hamas is a sexist, homophobic, racist and violent organization which only wants genocide and blood. If you support Hamas then by nature you are a homophobe and an anti semite. This video in fact debunks much of your anti Israeli nonsense.

If you were in Israel this is what they would do to you in the following link. I bet the Pallys thank their useful Liberals everytime they blow themselves up or cut off a gay person's face. Remember Johnny Anger this is what you support.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Israel,_Palestine,_and_Gays

And I don't blame the Christian faith as a general set of teachings and beliefs for those groups though yes, they do identify as Christian and say what they're doing is for white Christians or whatever else. But by the same token I recognize that most scholarly imams who don't come from a severe backwoods or weren't handpicked by crazies because they were crazy say that Islam is not a religion that smiles upon killing people whether they drink alcohol or pray to Jesus. Despite the fact that the net is rife with people quoting obscure lines or things out of context from the Qu'ran to say Islam wholeheartedly endorses killing and violence. One of the biggest sites that used to do that finally got called out by a military translator who pointed out that the quotes they had up about cutting off heads and killing the filthy were actually (intentionally) misappropriated from the section on halal and were basically instructions on the Muslim version of the kosher preparation of meat.

So I have a mountain of salt when it comes to people trying to say this religion > that religion because (insert instance of extremists.)

Islam does endorse killing and violence. It advocates Jihad against all disbelievers as these verses show.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I can also show many verses which are racist, sexist and homophobic.

 

[Callum]

I dunno, the problem with Israel to me (as I've voiced before on this forum) is you can't have twelve children and give candy to one and expect the other eleven to play nice. No matter how many brilliant diplomats you toss at the situation, nothing positive will become of it. I do not fault Israelis or Palestinians or their offshoots for the issue, mostly the United Nations for even creating the Jewish state to begin with without acknowledging other cultures and ethnicities in the area. Ya'll know, WW2 aftermath and all that jazz.

The passive-aggressiveness and borderline psychopathic personalities required to be in international relations/politics allowed me to shrug off any prospective career in that arena with relative ease after my Freshmen year...