Ignorant liberal politically correct idiot put down a whole race of people without knowing it

[xbuzzerx]

Ok. People in East Asia eat a lot of rice.

Which one do you think it compares to? The young people bit or the black people bit?

I think it lacks a context AS traditionally intolerant as the black one. But I could certainly see an Asian person hearing someone say that feel like they are being lumped callously, or turned into a monotype, and take exception to it, certainly within any sort of academic setting or involved discussion.

 

[Alnitak]

SOME liberals, at least self-described ones DO have their own politically correct biases. They may think of themselves as open minded, intelligent and progressive but many do see things only through the prism of their ideology. Only difference is that they mock ignorant red staters for their biases but are completely oblivious to their own. Liberals often do take political correctness to the point of absurdity, in all seriousness. Many tend towards what I would call "rainbow conformity'. Diversity being wonderful so long as you have the politically correct perspective on things. If not, it's MUCH less appealing. If people here don't think there are a decent sized number of so called "progressive" minded people who carry themselves that way, well it's only self- deluding.

This post just reads like a defense mechanism. You seem to be intimating that liberals are really just as biased as conservatives, just more subtle. Perhaps this feeling is due to guilt by association?

Liberal ideology is not culturally relative and it is not an accident, and neither is its trend in densely populated areas. Exposure to others desensitizes people to the natural negative feelings we have towards others especially those not like ourselves. This is not a uniquely human phenomenon by the way.

Anyway, why do you think we exercise political correctness?

 

[zombiekiller]

I think it lacks a context AS traditionally intolerant as the black one. But I could certainly see an Asian person hearing someone say that feel like they are being lumped callously, or turned into a monotype, and take exception to it, certainly within any sort of academic setting or involved discussion.

This goes back to the lazy thinking bit I was talking about.

I can say that you are wrong on this. The reason saying black people eat fried chicken is because there are a lot of cultural connotations that go with it, and most of them are bad.

Eating rice, on the other hand, is a fact of life for East Asian people. Would you like me to give you statistics? I know you are acquainted with a Viet family. Go ahead and ask them if they eat rice everyday a long with other foods.

The reason any Asian person feels uncomfortable when a westerner ask us that is because of some idiots that think it's a bad thing to eat rice as much as we do and so they make it sound like it's such a bad thing. And it doesn't help if people like you perpetuate this belief that eating rice everyday is a bad thing, comparable even to making the false statement that black people eat fried chicken. And I said this at the beginning of the OP. I know how hard it is for you to understand about the act of eating rice everyday. There is no comparable food supplement in the west. Even bread you don't eat everyday. I said this. I understand how hard it is for you to understand.

I say false because statistically black people don't go to KFC any more than people of other races.

See how that works?

I have a very east Asian sounding name. And in the past, some white adults have made fun of how funny sounding it was to them. Does this mean that people like you and me should avoid my name like the plague?

I'm a liberal. Someone else have already pointed this out. Being a liberal is not applying political correctness to everything. And people who do are just as idiotic as people who make fun of my name.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

methinks not a say nothin

but world cult ures awsum everyday

thankyou

 

[xbuzzerx]

This goes back to the lazy thinking bit I was talking about.

I can say that you are wrong on this. The reason saying black people eat fried chicken is because there are a lot of cultural connotations that go with it, and most of them are bad.

Eating rice, on the other hand, is a fact of life for East Asian people. Would you like me to give you statistics? I know you are acquainted with a Viet family. Go ahead and ask them if they eat rice everyday a long with other foods.

The reason any Asian person feels uncomfortable when a westerner ask us that is because of some idiots that think it's a bad thing to eat rice as much as we do and so they make it sound like it's such a bad thing. And it doesn't help if people like you perpetuate this belief that eating rice everyday is a bad thing, comparable even to making the false statement that black people eat fried chicken. And I said this at the beginning of the OP. I know how hard it is for you to understand about the act of eating rice everyday. There is no comparable food supplement in the west. Even bread you don't eat everyday. I said this. I understand how hard it is for you to understand.

I say false because statistically black people don't go to KFC any more than people of other races.

See how that works?

I have a very east Asian sounding name. And in the past, some white adults have made fun of how funny sounding it was to them. Does this mean that people like you and me should avoid my name like the plague?

I'm a liberal. Someone else have already pointed this out. Being a liberal is not applying political correctness to everything. And people who do are just as idiotic as people who make fun of my name.

So I'm going back to the main (relevant) point here since the topic is basically, you having issues communicating smoothly with people without them taking offense or arguing things you've said.

Why all this effort in the above post to justify what could be entirely circumvented by you being one word more precise with what you say, instead of just expecting everyone to get what you mean and beginning to call them an idiot liberal P.C. this or that when they don't?

Again, we're dealing with you having some kind of resentment to expressing yourself adequately to avoid misinterpretation.

 

[zombiekiller]

So I'm going back to the main (relevant) point here since the topic is basically, you having issues communicating smoothly with people without them taking offense or arguing things you've said.

Why all this effort in the above post to justify what could be entirely circumvented by you being one word more precise with what you say, instead of just expecting everyone to get what you mean and beginning to call them an idiot liberal P.C. this or that when they don't?

Again, we're dealing with you having some kind of resentment to expressing yourself adequately to avoid misinterpretation.

Well, yes, you are partially correct. But why won't you admit that it was YOU who put in the word "all" in everything I say?

A lot of the things we say we need to depend on people's common sense. Take the following example. Suppose I need you to get something for me in the basement. You go down to the basement and you realize the basement is big. So, you yell upstairs and ask me "where is it?"

Now, imagine if I answer you "it's in the basement". Or better yet, my answer could be "it's inside the house" or "it's in the United States of America.

When I say "people", isn't it obvious that only an idiot would assume people refers to every person on the planet? Why then must you insist on applying the word "all" right before the word "people" when it makes much more sense to apply "a lot' or "most" or even "some"?

You mentioned before in an academic settings. I happened to be president of the philosophy debate club back in college. The number 1 rule in an academic setting is if someone makes a statement that could be interpreted several ways, always assume the interpretation that puts that person in the best light.

In this case, you decided to apply the word "all" to everything I say to make me look ridiculous.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well, yes, you are partially correct. But why won't you admit that it was YOU who put in the word "all" in everything I say?

Well let me make it very simple for you. If you do not want to seem like you are being offensive, or you do not wish to be wildly misunderstood, there are certain topics where you should presume the chance for someone misunderstanding you is much higher than other topics, and one of them is race. If you go around saying "blacks do this" and "Asians do that" people will, in general, receive that as you are stereotyping, and you're doing it in a way that disregards individuality and lumps the entire group. If you do not wish that to be people's understanding of what you are saying, then express yourself more precisely on topics like that. It's not limited to race. Religion, nationality, a number of things are as sensitive. You'd be no less commonly misunderstood if you went around saying Catholics do this and Muslims do that. You're just asking for someone to argue with you because they are going to perceive that you are lumping a group of people, and they're also going to probably think that if you're doing that, you have a negative or dismissive attitude towards that group and the individuals in it.

You mentioned common sense. This is a case of common sense. You've seen how people react to unqualified broadbrush statements about groups, so use your common sense to tell you, perhaps you should express yourself more carefully on those topics. Not trying to have a grammar and etymology and assumption debate with everyone who will misunderstand you when you're imprecise on topics like race or wide groupings of people.

 

[zombiekiller]

If you go around saying "blacks do this" and "Asians do that" people will, in general, receive that as you are stereotyping,

There goes that lazy thinking I've been talking about again.

 

[zombiekiller]

First of all, I need to apologize ahead of time if you are offended by what I'm going to say.

This thread, particularly xbuzzerx's responses, have been very disturbing to me. Now I know just how much westerners look down on us Asians eating a lot of rice. You guys really think there is something wrong with it, even comparing it to the stereotype that black people like to eat fried chicken. By trying not to offend us, you show us that you look down on our way of life. Weather you like it or not, you sound exactly like the woman that avoided saying the word "gay" I was talking about earlier.

Buzzer said at one point that he would imagine some Asian people not wanting to be lumped in with all the daily rice eaters. This statement alone has negative connotations, as if the act of eating rice as a daily dietary supplement is a negative thing.

Buzzer, thanks a lot for showing us your cultural bias.

 

[Alnitak]

What Sausy said.

Liberalism can be as tyrannical and unbalanced as any other agenda-based advocacy.

And there shouldn't be an N-word unless there's a G-word, an L-word, a C-word, and a bunch of other pet offenses. It's an overblown notion that just makes everyone look overprotective and unreal.

Oh those tyrannical gay rights activists. Coming to take down your "gays need to apply" signs.

How horrible

 

[Alnitak]

No, just some advocates in the debates on JUB. In the real world, such hypersensitivity and overreactions would be laughed down.

Have you ever tried gay activism in the "real world"

 

[xbuzzerx]

What Sausy said.

Liberalism can be as tyrannical and unbalanced as any other agenda-based advocacy.

And there shouldn't be an N-word unless there's a G-word, an L-word, a C-word, and a bunch of other pet offenses. It's an overblown notion that just makes everyone look overprotective and unreal.

Dejavudoo, do you really have any idea what you're asking for? I strongly suspect having your group endure a few hundred years of the kind of treatment that would instill into them a visceral reaction to certain slurs is not something you'd enjoy.

These kinds of stupid comments belie a zero sum mentality where you think every single group is equal and some are just more sensitive than others, and completely ignores a history in which those groups have differed in their experiences, not by margins but by extremes.

First of all, I need to apologize ahead of time if you are offended by what I'm going to say.

This thread, particularly xbuzzerx's responses, have been very disturbing to me. Now I know just how much westerners look down on us Asians eating a lot of rice. You guys really think there is something wrong with it, even comparing it to the stereotype that black people like to eat fried chicken. By trying not to offend us, you show us that you look down on our way of life. Weather you like it or not, you sound exactly like the woman that avoided saying the word "gay" I was talking about earlier.

Buzzer said at one point that he would imagine some Asian people not wanting to be lumped in with all the daily rice eaters. This statement alone has negative connotations, as if the act of eating rice as a daily dietary supplement is a negative thing.

Buzzer, thanks a lot for showing us your cultural bias.

Zombie, you can make up whatever the hell you want to think to get around the fact that you want to speak imprecisely and everyone else in the world is a bigot and a racist for not understanding your supposed true inner meaning that you didn't verbalize correctly, and that doesn't make it true. Since I'm East Asian myself you've made a complete fool out of yourself with this post.

 

[zombiekiller]

Zombie, you can make up whatever the hell you want to think to get around the fact that you want to speak imprecisely and everyone else in the world is a bigot and a racist for not understanding your supposed true inner meaning that you didn't verbalize correctly, and that doesn't make it true. Since I'm East Asian myself you've made a complete fool out of yourself with this post.

Perhaps I didn't verbalize it correctly, but it was YOU that kept inserting the word "all" into everything I said, putting me in the worst possible light. Do you deny this or not?

And just because you are East Asian doesn't mean you aren't immune to western bias. As I have explained this before. I've known a few East Asian people changing their name to something more English sounding. I've known East Asian women who only strictly date white guys.

An d the fact of the matter remains that there is nothing wrong with eating rice everyday. You are the one that kept bringing it up with negative connotations.

 

[zombiekiller]

I don't think he meant it negatively, but that's how I interpreted it.

^See that? His statement can be interpreted differently. So why is it that you're allowed to interpret what he said negatively, yet you act like people are idiots when they interpret what you say negatively? Double standard much..

I did not interpret what he said in a negative light until he started comparing East Asian people eating rice to Black people eating fried chicken.

I've had white people honestly asking me why they see East Asian people eating rice everyday because they don't understand. There is nothing comparable in the west. Even bread people don't eat it as much as East Asian people with rice.

There was nothing in my original post that even hinted that I was referring to ALL East Asian people eating a lot of rice. In fact, I even went out of my way to explain that my general statement did not refer to every single member of the group. Scroll up and read again. But it was buzzer that insistently inserting the word "all" in my statements despite the fact that this would be the 4th or 5th time I've explained about common English to him.

In an academic debate, we have a name for this tactic. Keep misinterpreting your opponent's words until everyone loses track of what's been said. In this particular case, he kept ignoring my explanations regarding common language and insistently inserting the word "all" in my statements.

Again, when someone says to you "people like dogs", do you think he/she is referring to every single person on the planet?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Perhaps I didn't verbalize it correctly, but it was YOU that kept inserting the word "all" into everything I said, putting me in the worst possible light. Do you deny this or not?

And just because you are East Asian doesn't mean you aren't immune to western bias. As I have explained this before. I've known a few East Asian people changing their name to something more English sounding. I've known East Asian women who only strictly date white guys.

An d the fact of the matter remains that there is nothing wrong with eating rice everyday. You are the one that kept bringing it up with negative connotations.

Since I eat rice almost everyday I would LOVE to see you to twist yourself into pretzel shapes to show where I said this is a bad thing.

I don't think he meant it negatively, but that's how I interpreted it.

^See that? His statement can be interpreted differently. So why is it that you're allowed to interpret what he said negatively, yet you act like people are idiots when they interpret what you say negatively? Double standard much..

Right?

 

[zombiekiller]

Since I eat rice almost everyday I would LOVE to see you to twist yourself into pretzel shapes to show where I said this is a bad thing.



Right?

When you started making it sound like saying black people like to eat fried chicken.

FYI, I love fried chicken. It was the first thing I ate standing on US soil.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I did not interpret what he said in a negative light until he started comparing East Asian people eating rice to Black people eating fried chicken.

I've had white people honestly asking me why they see East Asian people eating rice everyday because they don't understand. There is nothing comparable in the west. Even bread people don't eat it as much as East Asian people with rice.

There was nothing in my original post that even hinted that I was referring to ALL East Asian people eating a lot of rice. In fact, I even went out of my way to explain that my general statement did not refer to every single member of the group. Scroll up and read again. But it was buzzer that insistently inserting the word "all" in my statements despite the fact that this would be the 4th or 5th time I've explained about common English to him.

In an academic debate, we have a name for this tactic. Keep misinterpreting your opponent's words until everyone loses track of what's been said. In this particular case, he kept ignoring my explanations regarding common language and insistently inserting the word "all" in my statements.

Again, when someone says to you "people like dogs", do you think he/she is referring to every single person on the planet?

You just shot your whole point in the foot.

When someone says "people like dogs", no one assumes it's talking about one person or a small number of people. Everyone assumes it's a reference to a very huge, undefined number of people... it's a statement in general about a large unquantified number. That number could range from some to half to most to all.

The problem is that when you do this with a practice or belief or lifestyle or whatever else and you assign it to a race, you appear to be stereotyping people in a way that they will react negatively to, because there's a long history of reducing minorities to little caricature monotypes that the mainstream denigrated and made fun of--- guy in a rice hat, someone doing a mexican hat dance, little black Sambo, take your pick.

The fact that you are densely refusing to expend one or two words of effort to be more precise and avoid coming off this way is not a problem with everyone else. It's a problem with you. You've had an attitude problem in this entire thread and I'm not the only one who pointed it out. So if you want to come here and ask for "why is this happening", you have your answer. For some reason you have this attitude-coated block in your head where you feel like you should get to say things any way you like but other people are wrong if they interpret it in a perfectly understandable possible interpretation that wasn't the one you meant. That's your fault for not being clear especially on a potentially sensitive topic. It's not the fault of everyone else on the planet.

You can argue this till you're blue in the face if you like, but the problem is you, not idiot P.C. liberals, not self-loathing East Asian people under western influences, or anything else. Say what you mean and mean what you say, don't expect everyone else to be able to reach into your brain and know what you really meant when you're too lazy and belligerent to just say it correctly the first time and leave no room for misunderstanding.

 

[xbuzzerx]

When you started making it sound like saying black people like to eat fried chicken.

FYI, I love fried chicken. It was the first thing I ate standing on US soil.

Eating fried chicken is not a bad thing for anybody (other than for their health.) Reducing black people to a little caricature of fried chicken eating monotypes is what people will react badly to. And I explained to you that it's possible when you go around making unqualified comments about what "East Asians" do, some people are going to have this same reaction.

No one, including myself, understands this mythical link you're making where I somehow said eating rice is bad.

 

[eastofeden]

So, most of you guys here are westerners, so this will be hard to adequately explain. But let me try.

(1) Yes, making a stereotype statement about a whole group of people is not a good idea. It tends to reflect lazy thinking.

However, considering ALL general statements as stereotypes is also lazy thinking. Why? Because not all general statements are stereotypes. Some don't necessarily apply to every single member of the group of people, but it's pretty damn close.

An example is people speak English in England. That's a general statement about a group of people that is true for the most part but of course does not apply to every single member of the group.

(2) When people think something is bad, they try to avoid saying it. The most obvious example is the n-word. Or even "gay". One time I attended a gathering with my "girlfriend". It was actually my faghag, but she always acted like we were together. A couple came up to us and we began a conversation. That girl and I really sounded like a couple. We were just used to it. So, at the end of the conversation, the woman said that funny that we met like this because someone told her I was "that". Looking puzzled, I asked her what she meant. She proceeded to quietly say "you know, that". You get the point.

(3) If anything, politically correct ignorant liberal idiots bother me just as much as the culturally insensitive idiot.

Having said all of that, the other day I had to go into the city for my final interview. So, on my way home I thought I'd stop by the gay community center in the city to pay a visit. All new faces, of course. It's pretty much a place where gay men and women could come, hang out, talk, whatever.

The conversation that was going on at the time was stereotypes. There were people who insisted that all general statements are stereotypes.

This was when I weighed in. I said that not all general statements are stereotypes. They're just facts. For example, East Asian people eat rice on a daily basis.

At this point, the person responsible for the "space" got on my case and said I was ignorant with my statement and I shouldn't put down a whole race of people like that.

Think about it.

(1) It is a fact that East Asians do eat a lot of rice, like on a daily basis. I know this is hard to understand, because people on the west don't ever eat anything the same everyday, not even bread. Any Asian person will tell you this. We grew up eating rice everyday with other things. It is the main dietary supplement for us.

(2) That ignorant liberal idiot just told me and everyone else without knowing it that he thought there was something wrong with us eating rice everyday. He treated that statement like the n-word. He was this close to asking me to leave, and he told me this because he "wanted everyone to feel safe there".

(3) That ignorant liberal idiot just told me and everyone else how ethnocentric he was. His cultural perspective told him eating the same thing everyday is bad, so he assumed everyone else think that as well.

Now, this is not to say I'm not guilty of inadvertently offending people. One time I made a joke with the masturbating gesture in front of 4 women who were sign language interpreters. But this was back when I was like 17 and an idiot LOL.

If insisting on treating people as the individuals that they are makes me an ignorant liberal idiot...then I will take it as a compliment coming from you.

 

[pat grimshaw]

This thread started off a discussion.

But it is degenerating down into plain personal bitching.