"Illegal Immigration" is paranoia-speak for "Mexican-hating"

[Kurn]

The term "illegal immigration" is one of those terms that we use so that we can talk about the problem of the many, many Mexicans who come north to help us with our daily tasks.
Much of the anger and froth is inherited. It is several generations old and we tend to forget the origin. The origin is partly a hatred of the Mexican race.

Now, I'm a live-and-let-live person and recognize that people are better left to work out their moral misadjustments on their own. But things sound like they are going tooooo far. And so I must say:

We need to make nice with Mexicans. Why? Because if we don't we have more problems rather than less.

We need to do this on a person to person basis.
We need to apologize, say we're sorry for misunderstandings in the past.
We need to emphasize that We, the Citizens are eager to help They, the Citizens.

We need to be less driven by angry paranoia.
We need to take advantage of the situation, not make it worse.
By "take advantage of the situation," in this, as in all cases, I mean use the situation to make things better for all concerned: For the USA as a whole; for Mexico as a whole. And for the world as a whole because people will watch us and admire us and emulate us if we choose to do something constructive and progressive that heals instead of oppresses and hurts.

 

[bacchus]

umm no

i will not apologize to anyone who invades this country illegally, be they mexican, canadian, pakistani, or what have you

you know the rules to get in, and you decide not to follow them? then hopefully we find you and ship you back to whereever you came from

it has nothing to do with just mexicans, it has to do with the whole issue and EVERYONE that takes advantage of this country

 

[Kurn]

I want to not care if Canadians or Mexicans come here sans bureaucratic-oblige.
And in the case of many Mexicans, no, they DON'T know the rules.

The whole issue of "illegal immigration" has been frothed-up because of a generations-old guilty antipathy towards Mexicans.

And to be sure, I would like the present situation to be modified. A person from the interior of Mexico, a person of desperate needs could come to a port of Entry and get an ID card. They could be advised of where their labor might be needed.

You see, the advantage of liberalizing the border instead of what we're fixin to do is that they can go home afterwards. They can take their work skills and picture of what life can be like and use it to improve Mexico and so on...

 

[SantaCBear]

"The whole issue of "illegal immigration" has been frothed-up because of a generations-old guilty antipathy towards Mexicans."



Thanks for the laugh...

 

[Centexfarmer]

Texans and Californians seem to look at this issue from two completely different perspectives I think.

In Texas we have Texans, who can trace their heritage back to Pre-Texas independence from Mexico. I'm one of them.

Those Texans are made up of Anglos, and peoples of Mexican descent.

Many of those who are of Mexican descent are called Tejanos along with being called Texans, and Americans, and many of them I consider my friends. We've gone to school together, we've lived side by side as neighbors, and they're no different than anyone else that I meet.

Then there are what we call Mexican Americans. These are individuals who've immigrated to the United States, and have become legal United States Citizens. Many of them have lived here for generations, and many of them consider themselves Tejanos too.

None of us owe "illegal" immigrants from Mexico, or anywhere else anything.

This is the type of crap that the Mexican Consulate would like for everyone to believe, that we're all a bunch of xenophic-paranoid "Mexican Haters."

I know bullshit when I smell it, and this is bullshit.

This is an attempt by a few to shut down the debate on what's actually going on, an attempt by the Mexican Government to keep a flow of money coming back into their country from those who are here illegally by painting anyone who's opposed to illegal immigration as "Mexican Haters."

 

[Kurn]

^So, you haven't lived in Texas?

I'm not someone who condemns. I'm someone who lays out the whole situation and appeals to our intellects and good will. Nothing else will improve the crap-situation that we're in on all sides.

 

[Centexfarmer]

^So, you haven't lived in Texas?

I'm not someone who condemns. I'm someone who lays out the whole situation and appeals to our intellects and good will. Nothing else will improve the crap-situation that we're in on all sides.

My family fought for independence from Santa Anna's dictatorship, and I am a Texan, which means that not only do I live here, I was BORN here.

 

[Kurn]

None of us owe "illegal" immigrants from Mexico, or anywhere else anything.

This is the type of crap that the Mexican Consulate would like for everyone to believe, that we're all a bunch of xenophic-paranoid "Mexican Haters."

I know bullshit when I smell it, and this is bullshit.

But, centex, how does it seem to the naive paisano who gets it from all sides???
Whose bullshit is it that they're smelling?
Does it matter?

I'll say this: If you have thousands and thousands marching North, we're going to have Citizens of our Country saying "enough's enough." All right, fair enough, no xenophobia involved in that. We have an obligation to maintain ecological hygiene.
How do we do that, and not fail or make the problem worse somehow?????

 

[SantaCBear]

Texans and Californians seem to look at this issue from two completely different perspectives I think.

In Texas we have Texans, who can trace their heritage back to Pre-Texas independence from Mexico. I'm one of them.

Those Texans are made up of Anglos, and peoples of Mexican descent.

Many of those who are of Mexican descent are called Tejanos along with being called Texans, and Americans, and many of them I consider my friends. We've gone to school together, we've lived side by side as neighbors, and they're no different than anyone else that I meet.

Then there are what we call Mexican Americans. These are individuals who've immigrated to the United States, and have become legal United States Citizens. Many of them have lived here for generations, and many of them consider themselves Tejanos too.

None of us owe "illegal" immigrants from Mexico, or anywhere else anything.

This is the type of crap that the Mexican Consulate would like for everyone to believe, that we're all a bunch of xenophic-paranoid "Mexican Haters."

I know bullshit when I smell it, and this is bullshit.

This is an attempt by a few to shut down the debate on what's actually going on, an attempt by the Mexican Government to keep a flow of money coming back into their country from those who are here illegally by painting anyone who's opposed to illegal immigration as "Mexican Haters."

You should revisit your thoughts on this... Because I agree with you

It's fun to agree with you

 

[Centexfarmer]

But, centex, how does it seem to the naive paisano who gets it from all sides???
Whose bullshit is it that they're smelling?
Does it matter?

I'll say this: If you have thousands and thousands marching North, we're going to have Citizens of our Country saying "enough's enough." All right, fair enough, no xenophobia involved in that. We have an obligation to maintain ecological hygiene.
How do we do that, and not fail or make the problem worse somehow?????

This is the problem that I see.

There isn't any political capital being spent on coming up with a solution to this situation by anyone in Washington beyond sound bites, and throwing money as some stupid ass wall/fence.

So local municipalities are picking up the slack, and passing ordinances that actually put some teeth in the immigration laws that were passed under the Reagan Administration.

Sadly, a lot of the people that I mentioned in my post that you quoted are getting caught in the cross-fire of this debate, and those laws being passed by municipalities are now allowing for the type of xenophobia and hatred, and racial profiling that has been long buried through years of mistrust between our ancestors, and our mutual histories.

So with that I agree that something must be done, but adding "guilt" and "hatred" to the debate instead of finding solutions to these problems, isn't going to solve much. IMHO.

 

[Kurn]

My family fought for independence from Santa Anna's dictatorship, and I am a Texan, which means that not only do I live here, I was BORN here.

Centex, that quote was directed at SantaCBear and it was really just a question. I knew or suspected your Texan heritage. I don't want to take anything from anybody; it's frustrating that people can't make anything better out of this than what they've been doing.

We depend on people who get elected to lead the sheeple. All we do is go round and round and round and round. Some things are better solved by the people and no I don't mean the Posse Comitatus. That is things MIGHT be better solved by the people if the people would just take a cold shower now and then.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Centex, that quote was directed at SantaCBear and it was really just a question. I knew or suspected your Texan heritage. I don't want to take anything from anybody; it's frustrating that people can't make anything better out of this than what they've been doing.

We depend on people who get elected to lead the sheeple. All we do is go round and round and round and round. Some things are better solved by the people and no I don't mean the Posse Comitatus.

I agree with most all of what you posted when you created this thread.

I was merely pointing out that there are those who would prefer to stifle this debate.

I've heard several members of the Mexican American community, when forced to admit that they don't have a solution either, resort to calling individuals that they disagree with as "racists," or "Mexican Haters."

To me that's bullshit.

Most Mexican American friends and neighbors of mine agree that "if you're here legally you shouldn't have anything to worry about."

What we find distasteful are those individuals who are in fact "racists" and "Mexican Haters" using this debate to further their agenda of intolerance against those who "look" Mexican.

 

[Orlandude]

Kurn, understand that I'm not criticizing you personally, I disagree with your thought process on this issue.

Under existing immigration LAWS in this nation, if you are an immigrant who circumvents the immigration POLICY of this country, then you are here ILLEGALLY, regardless if you've been here 20 days or 20 years. Period. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. ANYONE who wants to come to this country bad enough LEARNS the laws. This is a nation of laws. Your using this issue to platform accusations of discrimmination and hatred is totally bogus and you know it. This has nothing to do with Mexico or Mexicans so please stop race-baiting. It just so happens that, at the moment, Mexicans are the largest single group of lawbreakers and somehow think that our laws do not apply to them.

No apology is warranted.

​

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[SantaCBear]

Centex, that quote was directed at SantaCBear and it was really just a question. I knew or suspected your Texan heritage. I don't want to take anything from anybody; it's frustrating that people can't make anything better out of this than what they've been doing.

We depend on people who get elected to lead the sheeple. All we do is go round and round and round and round. Some things are better solved by the people and no I don't mean the Posse Comitatus. That is things MIGHT be better solved by the people if the people would just take a cold shower now and then.

OK...

No, I've never lived in Texass

Besides, only Queers & Steers come from Texass

 

[Centexfarmer]

OK...

No, I've never lived in Texass

Besides, only Queers & Steers come from Texass

And Only Fruits and Nuts come from California.

 

[SantaCBear]

^ I love you

 

[Kurn]

I've heard several members of the Mexican American community, when forced to admit that they don't have a solution either, resort to calling individuals that they disagree with as "racists," or "Mexican Haters."

I'm Anglo. But I know the Chicano perspective by close association.
Your input is helpful.
I should say that my 7th-grade History was learned in Midland, Texas. So I'm a little bit Texan myself. During my college-years I learned to revise my American History, and then I learned to revise it again so that it now lies somewhere in between, where real people live in a mixture of bordeom, elation and fear.

The Chicanos that I have known here in Califas--California, heheh--are taking all this in and seeing it in the terms of the title of my Thread. To their perspective -- although I should emphasize there are many variations of opinion--Mexicaphobia is what is driving the present debate.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Mexicaphobia is what is driving the present debate.

Or is it "Americaphilia" that is?

 

[Kurn]

Uh, if 'we' are to apologize for having laws inconvenient to a large mass of people who can then ignore them, then I best not get another speeding ticket, goddammit.

Actually, I have more in mind a mutual apology session.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I'm Anglo. But I know the Chicano perspective by close association.
Your input is helpful.
I should say that my 7th-grade History was learned in Midland, Texas. So I'm a little bit Texan myself. During my college-years I learned to revise my American History, and then I learned to revise it again so that it now lies somewhere in between, where real people live in a mixture of bordeom, elation and fear.

The Chicanos that I have known here in Califas--California, heheh--are taking all this in and seeing it in the terms of the title of my Thread. To their perspective -- although I should emphasize there are many variations of opinion--Mexicaphobia is what is driving the present debate.

Well I'd be lying, and it would be disingenuous on my part, to suggest that there isn't any of that going on here in Texas.

However, what I am seeing is are groups like LULAC pulling the "race card" on this topic when forced to come up with solutions of their own.

When we read in the paper that yet another "illegal immigrant" from Mexico just killed another police officer, or raped another woman, or robbed a liquor store, or got into a gun fight in a neighborhood where a stray bullet killed an innocent bystander, and then the Mexican Consolute manages to get them off on a technicality, or the Mexican Consolute actively warns Mexican Citizens which cities to avoid getting caught in, and how to get here illegally, it doesn't help the debate any.

Now the Mexican Consolute are encouraging the use of age old guilt, and accusations of "Mexican Haters" toward anyone in support of enforcing current laws, shows a complete lack of regard and respect for American sovereignty and our laws in my opinion.

IOW, they're adding to the problem and not helping the situation.

Midland huh? Did you see any jackaloupes?