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"Illegal Immigration" is paranoia-speak for "Mexican-hating"

Kurn said:
Mexicaphobia is what is driving the present debate.
Click to expand...

see there is where you have just lost any credibility, and where i drop out of this thread

you have no idea what is in someone's head when they say they don't want (key word) illegals in the country, and you have no right intellectually or ethically to make an assumption to try to prove your argument, which you can't do based on falsified assumptions

the USA, as has been said, is a nation of LAWS. if you cannot obey those laws, then you dont' come to this country. period

it does not matter where you are from, whether you happen to be mexican while you break the law- if you break it, you are wrong, and nothing will make that right
 
We have violence in and from the Barrios. The distinction about whether "illegals" are involved is less evident, except for ignorant people complaining about it.
There are people that just assume that if they look Mexican and scruffy that they're illegal.

Some of the "illegals" they would like to complain about are fighting in Iraq.

I don't know how the Mexican Consulates behave in California. Supposedly, they're there to offer legal advice.

To all those in high moral dudgeon over 'illegal immigrants,' get over it! Yeah, yeah a law's a law. But don't add moral certitude to it.

That's not a part of the Gospel, by the way.
 
Orlandude said:
Under existing immigration LAWS in this nation, if you are an immigrant who circumvents the immigration POLICY of this country, then you are here ILLEGALLY, regardless if you've been here 20 days or 20 years … This is a nation of laws.
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~ And most every crime “under the Sun,” short of kidnapping and murder, carries a statute of limitations – consistent with the basic legal and moral principles of this nation.

With regard to “existing immigration LAWS” – I think it is fair to point out that they further confuse a myriad of convoluted standards and perverse incentives that can hardly be considered consistent or stable over the past 20 years.
 
my best friend....who is from egypt, told me that his parents waited almost 15 years and filled out countless paperwork in order to immigrate to this country. my own parents also went through the normal and legal channels to come here form Canada. i have met many who have come here from many countries ALL LEGALLY. and i have met numerous legal mexicans, and other friends from south american countries. they all came here legally, now why the hell do some people in this country provide excuses for the illegal immigrants to stay here? they broke the law, while everyone else followed it. "they come here to help us out???" (are you sure?) NO, they come here to find work and send money home. like Centaxfarmer said, the mexican government relies on incomming US dollars. hell...they even published a leaflet on how to safely and successfully cross the US border.

if you enter any other country illegally they through your ass in jail and later deport you. so why is it any different in this situation?

and there are also illegal immigrants (which are technically "invaders") who are not from mexico. for some reason people think "illegal immigrants" refers to mainly mexicans, and then try to give it a racist spin. i dont know what that is about, perhaps somebody can explain that one...

another thing to think about that supports Centaxfarmer's argument that the mexican government's need of the US dollar transfers...is the fact that the Mexican government strongly protests the building of a wall along the US/mexican border. they call it some kind of injustice. how? why? doesnt any country have the sovereign right to regulate its own borders? and the way the Mexican government is putting it, it almost seems that they think their citizens have the right to access this country for whatever they want. some other mexican politican (or was it some guy from the EU?) said to Mr. Bush recently "Mr. Bush, tear down this wall" playing off what Reagan said to Gorbichov (mispell?). it shows they will say anything. the Berlin wall was meant to keep people in, the US/Mexican border wall is meant to keep people out.

and something else to think about all together....if the US government had not gone to war with Iraq, and instead invested that money into Mexico by helping to improve its economy and remove the organized crime and drug lords, the US and Mexico could be serious partners in an economic powerhouse, and there would be no need to flee the bad Mexican economy. i think both countries would profit from that.

**i stated my arguments fairly and i am not racist, as i said already, i have friends from many international countries including Mexico, and they all have similar views, i respect everyone who has posted already in this thread and their views, and i hope they show me the same courtesy.
 
Courtesy you get from me. When I'm not fuckin' grumpy for some reason.

My Thread title is a little harsh but I want readers to see it from the other side.

Times have changed somewhat. The way you might characterize a person of Mexican heritage in this country has diversified greatly from even 15 years ago. This is because of prosperity for a lot of them.

One piece of the puzzle is this: Much of the bad feelings stems from 160 years ago. People in this country shrug this off. They shouldn't. For all the criticism that we get for Iraq and stuff, we are a kinder, gentler nation than way back then. I mean, our soldiers over there are most often people you would be proud to associate with; compassionate, hard-working, intelligent.
We should emulate the soldiers that are laying it all on the line for us in the way we treat our neighbor Mexicans. Revolutionize our relationship with these people.
California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona were once part of the Mexican republic. But there's a deeper relationship that Mexico has with this territory that we need to remember:
This territory symbolizes the ancient homeland of Aztlan, the land where the ancestors of the Nahua, or "Aztec" people came from. And for good reason. The ethno-linguistic trail spells it out: North of the Nahuas, are people who speak a similar language, and north of them for hundreds of miles are similarly related people until you get all the way to what are now the southwestern United States. Hopi, Papago, Shoshone and other native American tribes are all cousins of the Nahua people.
This shows that the relationship between the Mexica, another term for Nahua, and our region is an ancient one. They feel it.

I advocate toning down the nastiness and instead instituting something practical like an ID card that the impromptu traveler can buy at the border together with information on labor demand. Like I and others have said, this could pay off big time. Maybe some day Mexico will help us.
Also, again, providing a liberalized border will actually encourage re-migration; that is, it will encourage Mexicans to return to the US after they've worked here for a while. This in turn can help develop Mexico in good ways.

Kindness is the only trail out of this canyon.
 
China had a wall for centuries, but they were still invaded when the Ming was overthrown by the Manchu Qing dynasty.

Building a wall may be expensive, but I don't think it would do much in the parts where the wall can be overcome.
 
bacchus said:
umm no

i will not apologize to anyone who invades this country illegally, be they mexican, canadian, pakistani, or what have you

you know the rules to get in, and you decide not to follow them? then hopefully we find you and ship you back to whereever you came from

it has nothing to do with just mexicans, it has to do with the whole issue and EVERYONE that takes advantage of this country
Click to expand...

Do you really think that a poor Mexican farmer can actually get a legal visa to come to the US to work?

Man do you live in a fantasy world. If such a visa existed, then they would be able to go through the channels to get one, but they don't exist. The lure of work and a somewhat better life for their families is all they have. Do you think they want to leave their families and all that is familiar to travel to a country where they know they will live in fear and be hated simply for what God made them. Of course not, but US foreign policy has created this mess, and it needs to be fixed ASAP in a humane way.

Every year hundreds die in the deserts coming to the US for jobs they know exist and that Americans don't want to bother with any more. Hundreds more are killed outright by criminal coyotes because they can't earn enough to pay off their transport fees. It is a sick situation the US can fix if it chooses, but we don't have a single politician with the guts to tackle the problem.

Dogs are given more respect than Mexicans in America.
 
JohanLarson said:
Do you realize that the Mexicans stole Mexico from the Indians? Your argument is specious.
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Uh, Oh. . . Mexicans by definition are a mixed breed, Indian and Spanish blood. It was the Spanish that stole what is now Mexico from the Indians. As did: the English, Dutch, and French further north.

Do you think the Dutch are proud of buying Manhattan for $24 worth of beads from Indians who had never seen anything so shiny and bright?
 
Kurn, YOU are the ignorant racist if you believe the only illegal immigrants are "Mexicans," and that the respect for the Rule of Law is an expression of "hate."
 
I'm hardly ignorant.
I'm hardly racist.
I make an effort to see both sides of things even if it isn't in my interest.
Nowhere do I indicate that the Rule of Law is an expression of hate.
Mexicans aren't the only illegal immigrants. I know that. But they should be treated distinctly well, as should Canadians, simply by their proximity and to further good will as a bulwark for our security.
 
In Kurn's defense here, he's expressing a perspective that's out there, and opening those perspectives up for discussion.

The only statements of intent that I've seen by him are in his first post which started this thread. :)
 
CenTex, do you think a guest worker visa would help control the situation, living in an impacted border state as you do?
 
Just looking at the forum briefly before going to work.

No time to get into it with you, but your title thread is bullshit, and your argument weak. That line is absolute leftist propaganda made to make people who believe in laws feel guilty.

I will not support a group of people who begin their relationship with this country in a lie. Get in line, and become an American as you are entitled to. Don't sneak into my home (country), and expect to be given full access!
 
bacchus said:
see there is where you have just lost any credibility, and where i drop out of this thread

you have no idea what is in someone's head when they say they don't want (key word) illegals in the country, and you have no right intellectually or ethically to make an assumption to try to prove your argument, which you can't do based on falsified assumptions

the USA, as has been said, is a nation of LAWS. if you cannot obey those laws, then you dont' come to this country. period

it does not matter where you are from, whether you happen to be mexican while you break the law- if you break it, you are wrong, and nothing will make that right
Click to expand...

the only people who side with the law, is the only people that benefit from it.
 
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