"I'm Not A Homophobe! I Just Don't Believe In Gay Marriage"

[DiamondSkin]

So I was at the March for Equality in DC, and I was feeling pretty inspired after I left.

I took a business trip to NYC and met a old college friend. I told her about the March and asked if she would like to help with a fundraiser for gay marriage equality ads in NYC.

She declined. The reason? Her words exactly: "I'm not a homophobe or anything, I just don't think gays should get married. Marriage is between a man and a woman"

I was aghast. I've been friends with her about four years. We had good times. We had great times. She knew I was gay and seemed okay with it.

So what did I do? I thank her for meeting with me and I left.

I'm not friends with her anymore. Deleted her phone number. Deleted her from Facebook. And just generally cut her off. No Christmas cards either!

I have another gay friend who is also friends with her. At least presently. He said he knew she didn't support gay marriage and didn't think I was right to stop being friends with her because of it.

I blew up at him and accused him of having a lack of self-fucking-respect. He's half-black and half-white.

I asked him how he would feel if his so-called friend was also against interracial marriage.

He paused and said "that's different". He protested that his friend was a homophobe.

BULLSHIT.

Enough is enough.

New rule: If anyone, for any reason, is against gay marriage he or she is a homophobe. Simply is that.

I don't care how fucking friendly or nice he or she is.

If your Mom is against gay marriage, guess what? She doesn't like you.

If a person is against interracial marriage, we'd call him out as a fucking racist.

Why isn't it the same with gay marriage.

Anyone who does not like or approve of gay marriage doesn't like gay people. Period. Just like anyone who doesn't like interracial marriage doesn't like black, latino, asian or people of different races of their own.

If you have friends or family against gay marriage, have some fucking self-respect and cut them off.

Gay marriage is the last and final frontier of gay rights. We fought for the right to fuck. We fought for the right to date in public. We fought to keep our jobs and homes and now we're at last fighting for gay marriage which puts gays on equal ground with heterosexuals. The last fight.

If someone is against gay marriage, they are against gay people period.

 

[Obsessive]

You have every right to be mad, but I don't think you should ruin a friendship based on what another persons beliefs are based on. You said you had good times and stuff together, so why would you ruin that for what she believes? Wrong or right she's still entitled to her opinion as are you.

I'm all for gay marriage (duh, i'm gay!), but being mad at someone for something they believe seems to be not clearly thought through to me.

You seem to be blowing things out of proportion here. Simply because someone doesn't support what you support doesn't mean they aren't your friends or that they hate you, it means they don't agree with you.

If you blow up like that with everyone that disagrees with you, how do you get through the day?

I have enough self respect not to be a total douche about my views.

 

[hungrybrownbear]

Are you seriously not going to being friends with someone who doesn't agree with your views? That's a bit narrow minded. Just because someone doesn't agree with you on the topic of Gay Marriage, oh whoops, they automatically can't be your friend anymore. Good friend you are, good job talking it out.

That's bold.

Oh and race and sexual orientation are different.
One day you could be gay, the next you could be bi. You can't change your race (lawl MJ).

If someone is against gay marriage, they are against gay people period.

This is so not true. If everyone thought this, then the push for gay marriage would never succeed. You're being pretty narrow minded yourself for not understanding why some people would have problems with gay marriage.

 

[Tadaa]

Good for you. Why tolerate nonsense like that. I've cut people out of my life for less and more.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You have every right to be mad, but I don't think you should ruin a friendship based on what another persons beliefs are based on. You said you had good times and stuff together, so why would you ruin that for what she believes? Wrong or right she's still entitled to her opinion as are you.

I'm all for gay marriage (duh, i'm gay!), but being mad at someone for something they believe seems to be not clearly thought through to me.

You seem to be blowing things out of proportion here. Simply because someone doesn't support what you support doesn't mean they aren't your friends or that they hate you, it means they don't agree with you.

If you blow up like that with everyone that agrees with you, how do you get through the day?

It's not a 'belief' to disagree on.

We're not discussing Eastern Philosophy or religion.

She's against an equal right that should be established to me and other gay people.

I ask you this: You're black person. Your friend is a white person. He says he doesn't believe in interracial marriage because he thinks it's wrong to cross-breed races.

You honestly wouldn't think he's a racist?

You honestly would still be friends with his discriminating ass?

No sane, self respecting black person would be friends with a white guy against interracial marriage or segregation despite their protests of not being racist.

And no sane, self-respecting (emphasis on self-respect) gay person should be friends with a person against gay marriage.

If they don't like gay marriage, they don't like gay relationships.

Having gay relationships is what makes us gay. If they don't like gay relationships, than they must not like gay people which means they secretly don't like you.

 

[Obsessive]

Good for you. Why tolerate nonsense like that. I've cut people out of my life for less and more.

It's like hating someone based on their religion. According to this thread race and orientation are the same, so I guess I'll just throw religion in there too.

See what I did there?

 

[MMMonsterBoy]

I could not be good friends with someone who believed that I should not be allowed to marry the one I was in loved with. It is like 'gee, thanks for the support.' It is the equalvent to 'I don't have a problem with blacks, I just don't want them in my house because I am afraid they might steal.' I try not to promote ignorance.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

You have every right to be mad, but I don't think you should ruin a friendship based on what another persons beliefs are based on.

Let's see... She thinks that she's above him and deserves special rights that he doesn't get.

She's not a friend. She needs to be taught how hateful she is. She only has gay friends so she can say "some of my friends are gay."

 

[MMMonsterBoy]

This is so not true. If everyone thought this, then the push gay marriage would never succeed.

What would someone's reasoning for not wanting to accept gay marriage be? How would their feelings towards homosexuality conflict/agree with this belief of marriage being between a man and a woman?

I can kind of agree with you, as I've seen the old 'gay people are cool! They just shouldn't get married.' They don't go out of their way to hate gays or avoid them, but they do believe in something that pushes the fight for equal rights backwards. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue. When someone tells me they are against gay marriage, they aren't exactly saying 'Gays are equal and should be treated like everyone else.'

 

[Obsessive]

What would someone's reasoning for not wanting to accept gay marriage be?

There are a lot of reasons on why people don't want to accept it.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Oh and race and sexual orientation are different.
One day you could be gay, the next you could be bi. You can't change your race (lawl MJ).

You can't change your sexual orientation. It doesn't happen. IT might happen on rare occasions that someone suddenly realizes they're bisexual. But I've never known anyone it happened to.

If someone doesn't think my marriage is as good as theirs, they're not my friend and I have no interest in giving them that "oh, I'm not homophobic, I know gay people and they accept that I think I'm above them" bullshit.

It's like saying "oh, he's not a racist, he just thinks that black people shouldn't be allowed to own property... that's just for whites."

 

[DiamondSkin]

Are you seriously not going to being friends with someone who doesn't agree with your views?

The difference between a gay person having equal rights and not having equal rights is not a 'differing view'.

It's not having a different opinion on bloody ice cream flavors.

If a person thinks you shouldn't get married to the person you love who just happens to be the same sex, he or she thinks less of you. They think you're second-class citizen.

That's a bit narrow minded. Just because someone doesn't agree with you on the topic of Gay Marriage, oh whoops, they automatically can't be your friend anymore. Good friend you are, good job talking it out.

Oh, please.

People like you are part of the reason why we having difficulties fighting for gay marriage.

People against gay marriage have discriminatory views. People for gay marriage have equality views. End of story.

By remaining friends with a person who supports discrimination against you, it means you have no self-respect as a gay person.

Oh and race and sexual orientation are different.

Yes, they are. But both are ingrained in ourselves and we can change it.

The fact that you think being racist is an evil while a homophobe is just merely a different point of view speaks to your self-respect as a person.

One day you could be gay, the next you could be bi. You can't change your race (lawl MJ).

Lord, you think people can change sexual orientations?

Let me guess. We can just 'pray it' away, no?

This is so not true. If everyone thought this, then the push gay marriage would never succeed.

I remember when I was a child I lived next to a racist. He was a nice racist but he was a racist still the same.

He was against interracial marriage. More specifically, my parents' interracial marriage. He said so multiple times.

He claimed not to be a racist and he tried to befriend us multiple times. Most likely, out of guilt.

We ignored his ass and denied his bouts for friendship.

Why?

Because we had fucking self-respect.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You are as passionate about gay marriage as I am.

This is a time for building bridges. You know there is a chance that you could actually convince your friend if you talk to her enough.

Unlikely. She's pretty passionate about it. Though she claims she's homophobe.

Like I said before, I come from a family of Civil Rights Movement activists on my father's side.

They did NOT tolerate those who were against segregation.

They were polite. They made peaceful negotiations. They made their case.

But they weren't fucking friends.

My grandfather was no Uncle Tom.

 

[DiamondSkin]

It's like hating someone based on their religion. According to this thread race and orientation are the same, so I guess I'll just throw religion in there too.

See what I did there?

What? Religion?

So if my religion says that Jews are a curse from God and they shouldn't be allowed to marry outside their Jew...dom....than it's okay, cause it's my religion?

I mean, if you're a Jew. You would still be friends with me, no?

 

[DiamondSkin]

There are a lot of reasons on why people don't want to accept it.

There are lots of reasons why people are racist and they're still bullshit....

 

[BRIOHAZARD]

My brother, who is gay, doesn't believe in gay marriage. Does that make him homophobic?

Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't make you racist or sexist.

It's like hating someone based on their religion. According to this thread race and orientation are the same, so I guess I'll just throw religion in there too.

See what I did there?

You don't choose to be African-American, Mexican, Asian, or Caucasian; nor do you choose to be Homosexual, Heterosexual, Bisexual, or Asexual.

You DO choose, however, to be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, or Atheist.

Your Race or Sexuality isn't a belief, your Religion is.

See what I did there?

 

[Swellegant]

I don't know... I don't think I'd cut a person off completely for that. It's such a touchy and emotional topic that I can't use it as a test subject for people's goodness. There are a lot of good people who have been sort of hoodwinked by the Religious Right, by using their religious feelings, into believing that gay marriage is wrong, even if gay people are OK.

I think what I would have done in that situation was to discuss, at extreme tedious length, my friend's objection to same-sex marriage. If you pursue the thing rationally and thoroughly, without being angry and polemical, you might just educate the person. That's part of being a friend... it goes both ways, this being-a-friend thing. You can't help her over her issue if you cut her off.

Even if you don't convince the person right then, you will let them understand that they're saying something they don't believe... because you're right, being against gay marriage is the same as being against gays: you wish to deny us a right that we deserve under the founding principles of our country; you can't do that to someone you support and love. You kind of have to decide which side of the fence you're on.

And if they come down on the other side of the fence from me, that's when the friendship is over. Always give a friend a chance.

Bottom line, though, we have to take control of our anger. It's nice to vent and all, but we cannot achieve anything useful if we act out of anger. What you do is: get angry, find out what made you angry, convert that anger into energy, and coolly and rationally take that thing down.

 

[hungrybrownbear]

gosh guys.

What I meant was if you just write people off and don't care to talk to them about it you're just as narrow minded as the people your lambasting.

Seriously, If you can't understand why some people would be against gay marriage then how are you ever going to give a coherent convincing argument to those who don't agree with you?

Really? Deleting them off your facebook? Cutting all ties to them once you learn that they don't support gay marriage! WOW .That's a sure fire way to win people to your side in the gay marriage debate. What you're doing is polarizing yourself and the people around you. The more a voter has interaction with homosexuality, the more they will vote/support homosexual legislation. This is because it has something to do with them. No matter what their stance on gay marriage or equal rights is. Homosexuals become more human to homophobes if they actually know one.

hateful? you think everyone against gay marriage is hateful? maybe it's because they're confused or that its something that personally conflicts with everything they have ever grown up with. Is that really hateful?

I'm not going to argue about whether or not you can choose or not choose your sexual orientation.
It just is not the same thing as race. Don't make that direct correlation and treat homophobes like racists. There are so many more different angles in the realm of homophobia than just prejudice.

self-respect my ass, just step out of yourself for once and try to see how and why other people see things. And just because they can't do that for you doesn't mean you shouldn't do it for them.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Ok I understand.

Gay marriage will be law eventually, whether she likes it or not. But unless we start changing more minds, it will only take longer.

Ultimately it's your decision, obviously. I find it offensive when people are against gay marriage too. But maybe, they just haven't heard the right arguments yet.

Let me tell you a story about a Woman named Marjorie.

Marjorie what's her name from El Coyote worked with gay people for her whole life... met their partners... was their "friend." she still didn't understand why they were annoyed when she donated money to Prop 8. She thought they were friends.

No amount of being "friends" with people who think they deserve special rights you don't is going to help.

Either way, why waste time with someone like that?

 

[DiamondSkin]

My brother, who is gay, doesn't believe in gay marriage. Does that make him homophobic?

If he doesn't wanna get married because it doesn't float his boat, that his business.

If he thinks gays shouldn't get married, than yes, he's a homophobe regardless of the fact that he is gay.

It just makes it sadder.

Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't make you racist or sexist.

In this case it DOES.

For goodness' sake, we're not discussing movies, or art, or TV. I'm denying someone as my friend because she doesn't like vanilla bean ice cream

It's the difference between denying or giving us equal rights like anyone else.

That's not a 'view'. It's either discrimination or equality. Simple as that.

Lord, if someone thinks you're going to hell for being gay, it's just his 'view' right? And he's not a homophobe, right?