"I'm Not A Homophobe! I Just Don't Believe In Gay Marriage"

[DiamondSkin]

In their minds you're forcing them to conform to your definition of marriage. Vice versa. Doesn't mean that he thinks you deserve or don't deserve equal treatment.

So if they're against interracial marriage, and I'm trying to work to legalize interracial marriage, wouldn't I be 'forcing them to conform to my definition of marriage which says that any person of any race can marry each other irregardless?

See how all I have to do is switch gay for interracial and it still smells like bullshit.

It just means you are on different planes of thought.

Just because a person is against interracial marriage and I am just means we're on 'different planes of thought', no?

Uh-huh.

Just because they aren't going to full on accept such a drastic change doesn't mean they don't think you deserve equal treatment. Their argument is that you can get married to a woman if you want. Equal, right?

Just because a person against interracial marriage in the early 1960s were not going to full on accept such a drastic change to single-race marriage doesn't mean they're racist!

Uh-huh.

Oh and the arguement is that you can get married to black woman if you want. Just not a white one.

Uh-huh.

but it doesn't sink them down to the same level as racism.

Yes, we know, sweetie.

Racism is evil and homophobia is really just a different opinion similar to one person liking vanilla and another liking strawberry.

There's not hatred or prejudice at all.

Bullshit.

 

[hungrybrownbear]

.............

*sigh*

my whole point: be a little more understanding. That will go farther than writing them off.

That is all.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

.............

*sigh*

my whole point: be a little more understanding. That will go farther than writing them off.

That is all.

And what makes you think that?

It sure didn't help hat Marjorie owned a gay restaurant from the mid 60s, did it?

 

[DiamondSkin]

And what makes you think that?

It sure didn't help hat Marjorie owned a gay restaurant from the mid 60s, did it?

Well clearly we must still buy her food, no?


At least our money is good enough for her....

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

n their minds you're forcing them to conform to your definition of marriage.

Huh? We want US to be able to get married.. we're not forcing them to marry someone of the same sex and we're not stopping them from getting married. THEY are telling us how they want us to live.

Doesn't mean that he thinks you deserve or don't deserve equal treatment.

That's exactly what he thinks.

Their argument is that you can get married to a woman if you want. Equal, right? Not really, but it doesn't sink them down to the same level as racism.

Maybe not, but it sure is mean. It also proves that straight people don't marry for love.. just for convenience.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Well clearly we must still buy her food, no?


At least our money is good enough for her....

No, business is down 30%.

 

[luminum]

This is interesting, because an article recently appeared about a Justice of the Peace in Louisiana who refused to give a marriage license to an interracial couple seeking to get married. He claimed that it was because he believed that interracial marriages do not last long and that it would be terrible for the children of that marriage.

"But I'm not a racist. I perform marriages for black people all the time."

...just not for interracial couples. A lot of similarities here.

 

[Willie Boy]

So I was at the March for Equality in DC, and I was feeling pretty inspired after I left.

I took a business trip to NYC and met a old college friend. I told her about the March and asked if she would like to help with a fundraiser for gay marriage equality ads in NYC.

She declined. The reason? Her words exactly: "I'm not a homophobe or anything, I just don't think gays should get married. Marriage is between a man and a woman"

I was aghast. I've been friends with her about four years. We had good times. We had great times. She knew I was gay and seemed okay with it.

So what did I do? I thank her for meeting with me and I left.

I'm not friends with her anymore. Deleted her phone number. Deleted her from Facebook. And just generally cut her off. No Christmas cards either!

I have another gay friend who is also friends with her. At least presently. He said he knew she didn't support gay marriage and didn't think I was right to stop being friends with her because of it.

I blew up at him and accused him of having a lack of self-fucking-respect. He's half-black and half-white.

I asked him how he would feel if his so-called friend was also against interracial marriage.

He paused and said "that's different". He protested that his friend was a homophobe.

BULLSHIT.

Enough is enough.

New rule: If anyone, for any reason, is against gay marriage he or she is a homophobe. Simply is that.

I don't care how fucking friendly or nice he or she is.

If your Mom is against gay marriage, guess what? She doesn't like you.

If a person is against interracial marriage, we'd call him out as a fucking racist.

Why isn't it the same with gay marriage.

Anyone who does not like or approve of gay marriage doesn't like gay people. Period. Just like anyone who doesn't like interracial marriage doesn't like black, latino, asian or people of different races of their own.

If you have friends or family against gay marriage, have some fucking self-respect and cut them off.

Gay marriage is the last and final frontier of gay rights. We fought for the right to fuck. We fought for the right to date in public. We fought to keep our jobs and homes and now we're at last fighting for gay marriage which puts gays on equal ground with heterosexuals. The last fight.

If someone is against gay marriage, they are against gay people period.

You are a heterophobe. So what if she is against gay marriage? She has accepted you for who you are and been your friend, but then just because your opinion differs from yours, you would throw her to the wolves and call her evil? All because she stated an opinion that differed from yours. Well my opinion differs from yours as well, so lucky me - you don't want me as your friend. Thank you.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You are a heterophobe.

Wait, what?

:|

I'm prejudiced against heterosexuals because I'm not willing to have homophobes as my friends.

PHAIL

So what if she is against gay marriage?

A number of things.

The fact that you don't seem to see a problem in it speaks alot.

She has accepted you for who you are and been your friend,

Clearly, she doesn't. If she accepted me as a gay person, she wouldn't have any problem with me marrying a guy.

Anymore than a black person marrying a white person.

So, she's like "I'm okay with you being gay and all, I just don't think you should have the equal rights as me and my boyfriend when WE get married. Tee-hee!"

Sbut then just because your opinion differs from yours, you would throw her to the wolves and call her evil?

Yeah, her 'opinion' as you call it is prejudice. Plain and simple. We're not discussing window curtains. We're discussing the difference between discrimination and equality. She thinks I shouldn't have equal rights. I do.

We can't be friends, sweetie.

And I don't think she's evil. I just think she's a prejudiced homophobe.

What would you call a white person against interracial marriage?

Well my opinion differs from yours as well, so lucky me - you don't want me as your friend. Thank you.

Please don't.

I sincerely hope you don't have access to a public office or a politician.

I can see it now:

"Hey that WillieBoy faggot thinks it's okay that I'm against gay marriage!"

"Well, gosh. I guess it's okay to support the Defense Against Marriage Act since he's okay with it!"



EDIT: Oh, god. Bisexual? No wonder. Always the bisexuals against gay marriage...

 

[BRIOHAZARD]

BLACK! BLACK! BLACK!!!!
(sorry, i really hate that pc term - my ancestors came from Africa... and so did most of yours, if not all of yours.)

Gee, sorry. I was just making a point. I didn't want to sound weird saying "Black, Mexican, Asian, or White" - so I just went with the "PC" terms.

Half my ancestors came from Germany and Ireland, the rest were Native American.

no, just stupid.

Haha, right you are! He also doesn't associate him self with the "gay community". In my opinion; if you're gay, you're apart of the "gay community" whether you like it or not.

 

[Willie Boy]

Wait, what?

:|

I'm prejudiced against heterosexuals because I'm not willing to have homophobes as my friends.

PHAIL



A number of things.

The fact that you don't seem to see a problem in it speaks alot.







Clearly, she doesn't. If she accepted me as a gay person, she wouldn't have any problem with me marrying a guy.

Anymore than a black person marrying a white person.

So, she's like "I'm okay with you being gay and all, I just don't think you should have the equal rights as me and my boyfriend when WE get married. Tee-hee!"



Yeah, her 'opinion' as you call it is prejudice. Plain and simple. We're not discussing window curtains. We're discussing the difference between discrimination and equality. She thinks I shouldn't have equal rights. I do.

We can't be friends, sweetie.

And I don't think she's evil. I just think she's a prejudiced homophobe.

What would you call a white person against interracial marriage?



Please don't.

I sincerely hope you don't have access to a public office or a politician.

I can see it now:

"Hey that WillieBoy faggot thinks it's okay that I'm against gay marriage!"

"Well, gosh. I guess it's okay to support the Defense Against Marriage Act since he's okay with it!"



EDIT: Oh, god. Bisexual? No wonder. Always the bisexuals against gay marriage...

You like to put words in other people's mouths. I didn't say I was against gay marriage, just against persecuting others for what they believe in.

Why are you so threatened by those whose opinions differ from yours? Is it that your self esteem is dependent on how many people sing your praises?

It is obvious you can not understand even the basic issues here. You have nothing of value to add to a conversation so I'm going to let you be the bitchy little drama queen you are so insistent on being. My time is too valuable to waste on the incompetent.

 

[BRIOHAZARD]

Yeah, her 'opinion' as you call it is prejudice. Plain and simple. We're not discussing window curtains. We're discussing the difference between discrimination and equality. She thinks I shouldn't have equal rights. I do.

We can't be friends, sweetie.

I agree with you. I don't think I worded it correctly last time.


I've lost a lot of friendships due to the fact that they didn't believe in GLBT rights.

Like you said, they'll say "I accept the fact that you're gay, but I don't believe you should have the same rights as me". It's a slap in the face.

 

[DiamondSkin]

just against persecuting others for what they believe in.

So if I believe that the Holocaust never happened or that black people shouldn't procreate with white people, I shouldn't be called out as the racist muthafucka I am?

There's a difference between an 'opinion' and clear prejudice which you don't understand.

If a person says you're going to hell if you're gay, I should still be friends with that person. After all it's just an opinion.

Why are you so threatened by those whose opinions differ from yours?

I'm threatened because that 'opinion' can turn into a vote for a public policy that would prevent gays from getting married and reducing us to second citizens that we are.

I would also be just as threatened if someone was against interracial marriage.

Is it that your self esteem is dependent on how many people sing your praises?

No, my civil rights is dependent on anti-gay marriage persons not having their 'opinions' turned into policy.

It is obvious you can not understand even the basic issues here.

Actually, you don't. It's sad and I hope you learn something.

The fact that you think homophobia is just a 'differing opinion' is just sad and pathetic.

We weren't discussing window curtains, sweetie....

IYou have nothing of value to add to a conversation so I'm going to let you be the bitchy little drama queen you are so insistent on being.

The fact that you can't create an argument and just sprout utter drawl means you know you're wrong and your opinion is null and void.

My time is too valuable to waste on the incompetent.

So how do live for yourself, when you yourself are an incompetent?

PHAIL

 

[DiamondSkin]

I agree with you. I don't think I worded it correctly last time.


I've lost a lot of friendships due to the fact that they didn't believe in GLBT rights.

Like you said, they'll say "I accept the fact that you're gay, but I don't believe you should have the same rights as me". It's a slap in the face.

I think losing a friendship is a sad thing.

But we cannot tolerate prejudice or homophobia.

By saying, "Hey, that's okay!" than we're condoning their prejudiced opinions.

God forbid, they go to vote on a proposition for gay marriage. They won't hesitate to vote against it.

After all, one of their gay friends gave them them thumbs up....

 

[saymyname]

Let's see... She thinks that she's above him and deserves special rights that he doesn't get.

She's not a friend. She needs to be taught how hateful she is. She only has gay friends so she can say "some of my friends are gay."

Agreed. I like militant attitudes like this. I can't believe someone said that race is "different" because one day you can be bi and the next gay. It doesn't fucking matter if some people do that... there's a lot of us who are ALWAYS gay, ALWAYS will be and we deserve the same fucking rights as everyone else. Our movement would be better off without people who tolerate intolerance.

 

[bankside]

gosh guys.

What I meant was if you just write people off and don't care to talk to them about it you're just as narrow minded as the people your lambasting.

This is part of the "all opinions are equal" crap that is plaguing our society. No, not all opinions are equal. The idea that straight couples can get formal social recognition and support for their relationships while denying the same to gay couples is a stupid idea. It isn't a different opinion, it is an inferior opinion. There is no harm in telling this woman to take a hike.

You may become a rapist in prison but you don't become gay.

Well put.

The OP is quite correct in asserting that people who oppose marriage equality probably are, at some level, biased against gay individuals. However, I don't believe that sexual orientation is the same thing as racial identity.

I think that sexual orientation more closely parallels gender. People who oppose marriage equality for gays are sexists, not racists. They are guilty of supporting gender discrimination, not racial discrimination.

I suppose what we must ask ourselves next is: "Is sexism as bad as racism." In theory, I suppose it is.

I wish you had just stopped there.

But in practice, perhaps not always. I can imagine legitimate and defensible circumstances where gender discrimination might be a necessary evil, even in this enlightened age.

So, in short I could remain friends with someone who does not yet support marriage equality because they are salvageable. They can be won over eventually. They will be won over. Time is on our side. I can forgive, because we'll win in the end.

Racists, on the other hand are a lost cause. I have no use for them.

I'm interested in your take on this but I don't see you putting anything behind this idea that would make me agree with it. Any of those attributes, "race", "gender", "sexual orientation" all seem as different or as likely to differentiate one person from another. I can also imagine social decisions being made based on any one of those factors that would have to take them into account knowing that the outcomes would be different for different groups. For instance, is Cystic Fibrosis research really an example of "white supremacy" just because CF affects more white people? Is the ongoing gender imbalance in firefighting really "patriarchy" just because women are typically not as strong as men at carrying firefighting equipment nor as inclined towards adrenalin-fuelled careers? Is fertility treatment an example of "gay privilege" if it is paid for by medicare?

Diamondskin, take a page out of your grandfather's notebook on how to deal with this crap - even if he expected to leave you a better world, I'm sure he didn't intend for you to have a free ride, and you are right; now it is your turn to stand up for what is right. He has shown you how to stand up to this woman, and your friend too. They are wrong. You are right.

Again, equal marriage is not some risky experiment that we should feel is some favour being given to us. It has worked exactly as intended for several years in many countries already. Why should equality not apply to every country, even yours?

 

[MystikWizard]

People who don't think Gays should marry have about a 99% chance of feeling that way because of either religious reasons or because they are simply homophobes .... or both.

The problem with people of Faith is that they are so indoctrinated in their Faith that they are taught that their God is all-loving and kind. However, they are too blind to see the Hate that is transferred to their own ideology as a result of that very same religion. In other words, they think they are actually doing right by showing this hatred for others because they truly think in their minds that "God despises it".

And if that is the case, then clearly their ideology of God is NOT all-caring and all-loving as they are led to believe. Reduce the influence of religion in society, and you will see homophobia reduce in turn, as the years go by. However, one has to be tactful in how they go about doing this. You can't simply walk up to these people and attack religion. It will get you absolutely nowhere. They are too indoctrinated to listen. Rather, the best chance is for Gays who have relatives to come out to their families and educate them on Homosexuality. Pour your hearts out to them so they get a better grasp of it.

This is a long process, very similar to racism in the country. And it isn't going to go away quickly. Gays want it to now, and it just doesn't work that way. Hence Gays get impatient and more forceful with their beliefs, and hence Heterosexuals respond negatively and view Gays as "forcing their agenda down everyone's throats".

I think often times the cart gets put before the horse. The best chance, as stated, to try to change the ideologies of those of faith is for Gay relatives to come out to their families and have heart to heart conversations with them. That, and to have some assistance of the education system to help better educate children about homosexuality. That way, we can deal with the Adults of today, while making an investment into the Adults of the Future as the Kids age.

But having heart to heart conversations with Adults and making them understand that the Homosexual Orientation is NOT a CHOICE is absolutely critical to influencing their thought process on the matter. Gays must be brave and come out to their parents and relatives and be able to talk with them about their Orientation. Make them understand that it is NOT a choice, just like their own Orientation was NOT a choice, either.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

You are a heterophobe. So what if she is against gay marriage? She has accepted you for who you are and been your friend, but then just because your opinion differs from yours, you would throw her to the wolves and call her evil? All because she stated an opinion that differed from yours. Well my opinion differs from yours as well, so lucky me - you don't want me as your friend. Thank you.

Except no. You're wrong. 100%.

This isn't an "opinion." This is "I think I'm better than you and deserve special rights for it.

Fuck her.

Diamond Skin doesn't think straight people shouldn't get married.. but SHE thinks that gay people shouldn't. THat makes her a homophobe and him a person standing up for himself.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

EDIT: Oh, god. Bisexual? No wonder. Always the bisexuals against gay marriage...

Yeah. They think we're just for sex in secret and women are for marriage and introducing to their "friends."

 

[DiamondSkin]

Pro or con, people actually do have a right to whatever their opinion of gay marriage is.

Again, with the word 'opinion'. It's not an opinion. We didn't have differing opinions over a bloody movie.

It's a prejudice. Not an opinion to be respected. Respecting prejudice just condones their prejudice and allows it proliferate throughout society.

I will not respect their homophobic 'opinions' anymore than I'll respect their racist 'opinions'.

When she becomes a member of the house or senate, and can actively stop the progression of this civil right.

You don't seem to get how American policy or proposition works.

How the hell did you think Proposition 8 was passed?

Because someone, somewhere in California had an 'opinion' that gays should not married.

That 'opinion' turned into a paper.

That paper turned into a proposition.

And thousands of other people with the same damn 'opinion' voted YES for Proposition 8 and now because of it gays were denied their equal rights.

See how much an 'opinion' can matter?

Lord, these gay Uncle Toms. They're worse than the Mormons.