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"I'm Not Emotionally Attracted To Guys"

I agree with that. I find it a lot easier to talk to girls about personal things than with guys. It seems like less judgment from women but with guys I'd be more worried about how I'd be perceived by them if I said something too personal.
 
Women are just a lot more comfortable telling people how they feel about things, and in general I've found them to be much more effective communicators. Women tend to have more intimate relationships, and there's research to back that up.

Indeed. Many studies have indicated that women, in general, are more open to dialogue than men and men are, in general, more open to action than dialogue.
Even in terms of agression studies have indicated the same...women are, generally, more agressive verbally while men, generally, are more agressive physically.
 
I agree with that. I find it a lot easier to talk to girls about personal things than with guys. It seems like less judgment from women but with guys I'd be more worried about how I'd be perceived by them if I said something too personal.

I think that's, partially, due to the fact that we still live in a "boys don't cry" society...for the most part, anyway.
 
Fair enough, but that's not what Dduder expressed at all. He just said that he doesn't love either gender, doesn't believe he ever will, and didn't even react when his friend died. I don't see how that fact pattern translates into fear over whether the guy will make a good doctor later in life, or a repression of his sexuality. Now, if you're remark came after his whole "I would fuck Zack Renfro (Enfro?) but I'm not gay," then I'd chuckle and agree. But lack of emotion, doesn't nec. mean that someone is afraid to come to terms. I can't help but think that some of you are pushing your feelings, life experiences, and hangups onto other people. I'm personally unemotional, and I'm certainly not trying to hide, suppress, or repress my sexuality. Obviously not everyone is a feeler.

If you follow your logic, coupled w/ some of the JUBBERS' assertions that men are closed off emotionally, then every single man on this planet would really be gay and would be repressing that desire.

I'm still curious as to what some of you aren't getting in your male relationships that creates the idea that women are more open to an emotional connection. I guess I just don't see that big a difference btwn the genders and would like to "hear" a different viewpoint. But one that's more specific.

Dduder says he is "incapable of love."

Besides his statements in this thread, other parts of the "fact pattern" presented by dduder also include what, to me, appears to be an incapability of respect. For instance, he often uses an argumentative tactic that goes something like this: "Wow, if you weren't so stupid, you would have understood what I wrote, and see how Right I am." This doesn't really qualify as an "argument."

Dduder also claims to have a "cold, logical, and objective mind." Note that these three characteristics do not necessarily all go together. Logic, for instance, does not require "coldness," although it may lead us to conclusions that feel "cold."

Beyond his claims of coldness, logicalness, and objectivity, we all get to make our own judgments about how much he actually exemplifies those characteristics. I don't recall a lot of convincing evidence from him in either the "logicalness" and "objectivity" departments (note, for instance, the walking away from physics and computer science because they're 'too freaky'.... WHAAAA?), but I would grant that "coldness" has been amply demonstrated.

It's not (necessarily) that he's not bright. Assuming he's actually IN medical school, he's got to have some intellectual firepower. But he's demonstrated some mighty goofy thinking. This, coupled with that "if you weren't such an idiot you'd understand the brilliance of my position" stuff, leaves me with the feeling that he's lacking in two characteristics that I think should be required of physicians: respect and compassion for those who are suffering. I wouldn't want him at the bedside of anyone I care for, or mine either.

IF we take him at his word that he is "incapable of love," then he's a little unusual. Now, Alpha, are you telling us that YOU'RE incapable of love? That's not what I hear from you. You say you're "cold" and "logical", and maybe not overly-emotional, but is that the same thing as saying "I can't love anyone"? (And, if so, what does Jason think of all this? :D). There are a few ways we can get to an adult individual who is "incapable of love;" one of them being the route outlined by TXbeau -- someone's actually so terrified of the vulnerability of feeling tender that they work very hard to never allow those tender feelings to become conscious.

Honestly, Dduder's post in this thread leaves me feeling warmer towards him than anything else I've seen him post. I have no interest in terms of what his sexuality is. I would just prefer some humaneness in interactions. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Fair enough, but that's not what Dduder expressed at all. He just said that he doesn't love either gender, doesn't believe he ever will, and didn't even react when his friend died.

You want logical, OK, he’s in here hanging out on a gay porn site calling himself “curious,” logically speaking there’s a high probability he’s closeted, either bi or gay. Knowing this, and knowing that it’s typical for closeted men to repress their emotions – sometimes to the point where they’re in complete denial; and when you come across the statement “I’m incapable of Love.” What’s the most logical conclusion? That he is in fact the only human in existence without emotions? Or that he’s repressing something.

I don't see how that fact pattern translates into fear over whether the guy will make a good doctor later in life, or a repression of his sexuality. Now, if you're remark came after his whole "I would fuck Zack Renfro (Enfro?) but I'm not gay," then I'd chuckle and agree. But lack of emotion, doesn't nec. mean that someone is afraid to come to terms. I can't help but think that some of you are pushing your feelings, life experiences, and hangups onto other people. I'm personally unemotional, and I'm certainly not trying to hide, suppress, or repress my sexuality. Obviously not everyone is a feeler.

Obviously you’ve never been a closet case gay man. Everything in your life is evaluated in terms of keeping that secret. You only participate in activities that are butch, you don’t become an interior decorator, you play basketball, you date women, you never ever, ever say, “I’d fuck” followed by even a gender neutral name. As for the rest, come on, he’s in here hanging out on a GAY PORN SITE! What, he’s actually just a nice straight boy looking for conversation? How many straight guys are going to surf around on a gay fuck site until they find these boards, apply your logic to that.

There are no humans on the planet that don’t have emotions; all you’re really talking about is how much individual people express the ones they have.

If you follow your logic, coupled w/ some of the JUBBERS' assertions that men are closed off emotionally, then every single man on this planet would really be gay and would be repressing that desire.

No one here said that you did, and anyway this is called affirming the consequent and it’s a logical fallacy.

(Gay men repress their emotions, men are emotionally repressed, all men are gay.) =/= a logical progression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

I’m sure there are plenty of reasons men repress their emotions, boys don’t cry after all, but again, where are we, how likely is it that on these boards that’s all that’s going on.

I'm still curious as to what some of you aren't getting in your male relationships that creates the idea that women are more open to an emotional connection. I guess I just don't see that big a difference btwn the genders and would like to "hear" a different viewpoint. But one that's more specific.

I do not think that, no matter how open a woman was, she could never give me what I get out of my male relationships, because I’m gay, I find this is fairly self explanatory. Perhaps women are given societal permission to be more emotional than men, but I’m gay, a woman isn’t going to be able to give me what I want out of a relationship in any universe, with any amount of emotion. Anyway I don’t think that’s what the other posters were saying. But you’ll have to ask them about that.
 
As for the rest, come on, he’s in here hanging out on a GAY PORN SITE! What, he’s actually just a nice straight boy looking for conversation? How many straight guys are going to surf around on a gay fuck site until they find these boards, apply your logic to that.

By all accounts, from what I've read around the various sections of the forum around here in the last 2 days, it's much. much more common and logical than you'd believe. Apparently.

-d-
 
Yet remember that these are generalities, and gender roles have changed pretty dramatically over the years. Take this thread, for instance, which consists of almost exclusively men having a very thoughtful, open dialogue.

In my own personal life, I have very close emotional relationships with men and women, gay and straight. I feel very comfortable talking with pretty much all of them about personal things, and they feel the same way toward me.

Actually, the studies that support his assertions continue up to as late as 2008. Of course people are open to dialogue here. It's a discussion forum.
 
So should we start looking at all men and women based on those studies or accept the fact that there are many people out there who don't fit into that pattern?

The purpose of such studies isn't to say that every single man and woman are like that but to indicate that the majority is. Like every "rule", there's always exceptions.
Men and women may be usually like that but that doesn't mean one shouldn't be open to the idea that some may not actually be like that.
 
It's a risk indeed but categorizing is what makes the world somewhet ordered to us. Categorizing helps us to predict other people's behaviors. Is it always right? Of course not...nothing's perfect. There's no perfect system nor a perfect way of doing things. Nothing's infallible (sp).
But categorizing is needed...it's how we survive.
 
Categorizing, yes...generalizing and stereotyping, no. I understand what you mean, but I think we have to be careful because it can be a two-edged sword.

Everything is a two-edge sword. Everyone generalizes and stereotypes...some much more than others...but everyone does it. It's bound to happen. Of course one will make mistakes here and there but...yet again...you're bound to make mistakes 'cause you're not perfect. Mistakes too are necessary.
I do understand what you're saying but I think that should be pointed to those who overly stereotype, those who generalize and stereotype to more extreme measures.
I, for once, try not to stereotype and generalize but every now and then I fail, wich is normal.
 
Gotcha...and I totally agree with you. ..|

Yay! My ego is throbbing!!!! (!)

:p


I did agree with you too but just felt like you were saying stereotyping shouldn't exist at all when...although it would be nice in a perfect, uthopic world...it just is what it is. But I totally agree we should at least try to be careful when using stereotypes.
 
By all accounts, from what I've read around the various sections of the forum around here in the last 2 days, it's much. much more common and logical than you'd believe. Apparently.

-d-

When I was in the closet, I hung out in gay bars with my girlfriend because I liked the music.
 
Beyond his claims of coldness, logicalness, and objectivity, we all get to make our own judgments about how much he actually exemplifies those characteristics. I don't recall a lot of convincing evidence from him in either the "logicalness" and "objectivity" departments (note, for instance, the walking away from physics and computer science because they're 'too freaky'.... WHAAAA?), but I would grant that "coldness" has been amply demonstrated.

I had ten terms of physics, and five of computer science, so I'm going to wade in here.
We all know that physics starts with everyday stuff, and works on explanation. It isn't too long, though, before some of it starts to nearly contradict everyday experience. Computer science is similar; at first it's dealing with how to handle standard stuff that seems normal, but even in second term we were having to wrap our minds around new ways of doing things, new patterns for old problems.

In both cases, it can become very uncomfortable mentally and emotionally, as what we're learning gets weirder, farther removed from what we consider "normal". In 60s slang, it can freak a person out -- and hence to some, it can seem freaky.

But the real problem is an inability or unwillingness to stretch your mind to new ways, new methods, new paths. I know, from tutoring physics, that there is the occasional person who is just unable (it becomes kind of obvious when you've run through all the standard analogies, a couple of different ways to do the math, and when you ask, "Get it now?" she says, "um, no"), but for the most part it's people who get very uncomfortable at what such a subject does to their worldview (I tutored one guy who actually got anxiety attacks when we pushed the frontiers).

So my guess is that this person, calling computer science and physics "freaky", is one who met some concepts which were a bit too strange, and, unwilling to increase his mental flexibility, retreated -- and gives an excuse which is revealing.

You want logical, OK, he’s in here hanging out on a gay porn site calling himself “curious,” logically speaking there’s a high probability he’s closeted, either bi or gay. Knowing this, and knowing that it’s typical for closeted men to repress their emotions – sometimes to the point where they’re in complete denial; and when you come across the statement “I’m incapable of Love.” What’s the most logical conclusion? That he is in fact the only human in existence without emotions? Or that he’s repressing something.

Obviously you’ve never been a closet case gay man. Everything in your life is evaluated in terms of keeping that secret. You only participate in activities that are butch, you don’t become an interior decorator, you play basketball, you date women, you never ever, ever say, “I’d fuck” followed by even a gender neutral name.

As a person who spent most of his life repressing sexuality, period, I agree with this whole-heartedly! Attraction to others involves emotion, and if you don't want to show your attraction, you have to crush emotions. You can even get to the point where it all becomes so automatic that even to you, you seem emotionless, unable to love or hate. I went for years unable to cry, unable to find delight in a sunset or a gift, and with a hollow laugh that sounded artificial to my own ears.

I give great credit to my time in Campus Crusade for Christ for coming out of it. Winter terms at OSU, I kept crashing into severe depressions, and it became obvious that these guys really cared. When you have someone who really cares about you, it's hard to keep the emotional walls up, even if you don't know you have them. I actually fled sometimes because being loved hurt! and also came with a terror I couldn't make sense of, but after a while described as feeling I "might get out of control".

That's a very real terror to someone who has never allowed himself to feel normal emotions, and in clamping down on it he becomes hard and cold. But that hardness is also brittleness, and that just feeds the terror. Yet that brittleness is a step toward health, because only once the facade is cracked can real emotions come out, and come through.

My final step didn't come till I came out. That's been over three years now, and my emotions still give me scares; I still have the impulses to clamp down, reign it in, and withdraw.
 
"Still crazy after all these years." Isn't that a song?
 
#73 above Kulindahr, that's one of the best posts i've read in quite some time, on several levels. thanks.

in terms of our buddy dduder, i sort of hope for him that, amongst all the causes that might lead someone to be emotionless, that this really is the one, because as you describe, one can worth through it.(*8*)
 
He just needs to meet the right person to realize how wrong he is. Let him find out on his own though.
 
He just needs to meet the right person to realize how wrong he is. Let him find out on his own though.

If he's repressing things like I did, he'd never even notice if the right person came along. I had chicks and guys both hitting on me at times, and I never even knew it -- friends had to tell me. It gets down to thinking "How do I need to act with this person to maintain my image?", and you don't even know you're thinking it -- and you don't even know that you're maintaining an image, because you've been doing it so long to keep a certain image in your own mind, it happens without conscious awareness.

With me it took a bunch of guys -- including one very hot gay guy, who I really liked but didn't know was gay... until he asked me if I'd take him to a dance, because it was an over/under 25 affair.... and a pair of straight guys with a friendship closer than most people who knew them could imagine, who came over one night when I was terribly depressed, and crashed with me, making a "bro sandwich" with me in the middle.... and a best buddy who figured out who/what I was before I did, and just waited patiently for me to wake up....
 
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