But let me slow down. You have good heart and it's clear that you're just trying to help. You said that family and friends talk about him and he's not fooling anyone, so how is it that NOBODY has said a word to him about this marriage proposal? What do his parents think? If they see it the way you do, what would be suspicious about asking for his number?
If you think he's about to make a huge mistake and it truly bothers you, then I guess you should try to do something. But, if he's in denial is as bad as you say, do you think there's anything you can do that will have an effect?
Thanks for understanding that I have a good heart. People seem to think I'm cold-hearted, but in fact I'm just trying to prevent the 20+ adult years of heartache that I went through.
Nobody said a word to him because that's just the way my family is. We never talk about anything serious--not unless it's 2 am and everybody is drunk--and then we refuse to talk about it the next day (remind you of a lot of threads here?). I love my family, but we (even my extended family) have communication issues (when sober, anyway
).
I don't know if your friend is gay or not, but I don't think I agree with you "girly=gay" theory. I don't know a lot of gay guys, but I've met some pretty non-girly gay guys. I've also met two very girly lesbians. If that's possible, I don't see why girly straight guys can't exist. Seriously, every person is different, and there are approximately 6,793,000,000 humans on earth.
Lube, who do you think isn't gay? You'd say someone is gay for driving a Jeep.
Lastly, what if he is straight? You could potentially be wrong (if everything is the way you say it is, you're probably not). It sounds like the only satisfactory outcome for you is for your friend to dump his fiance and come out.
Originally Posted by
whisperer 
You have such a stubborn view that your opinion is fact, applicable to everybody, and refuse to consider otherwise.
yep. yep. yep.
If I seem stubborn and arrogant, it's in reaction to all the denial I see here: in this thread and others.
People here seem to confuse deductive reasoning with bigotry and prejudice. They are not the same thing. People also seem to be in denial that there are any clues that someone is gay. They seem to think that gay guys are just "straight guys who like cock". I couldn't disagree more with that statement.
Let's use an example to compare deductive reasoning with bigotry.
Here in Minnesota, there are a lot of Mexican immigrants in the construction industry and meat packing industries. If I were having the roof of my house repaired and there was a dark-complexioned man on the roof, there'd be a pretty good chance he'd be Mexican.
It wouldn't be 100% of course, but the odds would be pretty good. But I could see guys here on JUB saying, "Well, he could be a 3rd generation American" or "He could be from India" or "He could have African parents" or whatever. Well, he could, but chances are he doesn't. But I'm still not 100%.
Then maybe I hear this man speak Spanish to his coworkers. More evidence, I say. Still not 100%, but getting there. Oh, but JUBbers would say, "He could know Spanish from the workplace" or "Maybe he learned Spanish in school; it's the most common language taught here!". Well, yes, that's possible. But is it
likely?
Then he gets down and goes to his truck which has a giant Mexican flag across the back window. OK, I've gone from thinking 75% probability to 85% to now 95% probability. "Oh, no", JUBbers would say: it could be his brother's truck. Or it could be his friend's, or....
Come
on people! Yes, all those things are possible, and they are accounted for in my 5% chance that's he's not a Mexican national. But the overwhelming evidence from deductive reasoning is that he is a Mexican national.
And there's nothing racist about that.
Here's an example of what would be racist/judgmental:
You walk into a grocery store and see a similar man speaking Spanish but this time dressed up in a suit and tie and talking to the store manager. If I thought something like "Oh, that Mexican must've stolen that suit and he's probably a wife-beater and cheating on his wife".
Do we see the difference? Potentially identifying someone as a minority is not, in and of itself, racist. But judging (or in this case, imagining!) someone's actions based on their (perceived) minority status is bigoted.
OK, so we get 2 things out of this story:
1. There are clues one can use to identify someone as being from a class.
2. Identifying someone as being from that class is not bigoted or mean or arrogant.
Can we agree on that?
The third point I want to make is that there are very real clues as to whether a man is homosexual. Some are clichés, some are less so. But they are very real.
How real? So real that marketing companies direct gay-themed advertising to people who exhibit those clues. Companies who make those products market to gay/lesbian individuals.
Face it, folks: Subarus and VWs and Jeeps and convertibles are very GLBT. Very. Not 100%, but there is a high correlation.
Effeminate men who care a lot about their looks tend to gay. Again, not 100%, but it's another clue. (Details magazine is about as gay as you can get without calling itself
Out. In fact, it should call itself
In, LOL).
Men who like antiques and collecting pottery or china tend to be gay.
Men who like dance music or Broadway soundtracks tend to be gay.
Men who walk up to female relatives and exclaim "Oh, my! I
love your jewelry!" tend to be gay.
If you don't see these things, your are living on Planet Denial.
