Indiana Legalizes Discrimination Against Gays

[Keeland]

Re: So no one is posting about Indiana? Homosexual discrimination legalized

BTW I no longer believe that Ben is a gay man.

What was your first clue?

 

[belamyi]

Kindly elaborate for I have never heard of such a thing....a citation from a credible source would suffice...thank you

If you have never been there or talk to gay people from there:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=card+italy+enter+gay+club&spell=1

 

[TX-Beau]

That links to a bunch of non-specific things that mention club membership cards in passing. That exists, or used to exist anyway at similar establishments here, but isn't some kind of national identification gay men are required to carry.

 

[kallipolis]

If you have never been there or talk to gay people from there:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=card+italy+enter+gay+club&spell=1

These privately issued cards are used for entry to gay establishments...to keep out the riff raff.

In the meantime I have phoned a gay lawyer friend in Genoa who confirms that no where in Italy, or the European Union is there a requirement to insert sexual orientation on an identity card, or document issued by a government department.

 

[belamyi]

These privately issued cards are used for entry to gay establishments...to keep out the riff raff.

In the meantime I have phoned a gay lawyer friend in Genoa who confirms that no where in Italy, or the European Union is there a requirement to insert sexual orientation on an identity card, or document issued by a government department.

No. You don't get it: what that norm states is that you can not walk as a free citizen in any business open to public, but you must be identified as a gay person in a place specific for "your kind", so nobody is allowed to enter a gay club unless willingly to identify themselves as gay, and you are forced to become a member of that place, as if you were forced to become a member of any store to be able or business in general to be able to have a drink or buy something or, merely, to wander around FREELY and privately, which also means that all the closeted gay Italians will avoid hanging out in a club because of that norm. The norm turns a private, free citizen into a private, secluded version of yourself.

That's what the riff raff is about...

And notice I didn't talk of that norm as something in the present

 

[belamyi]

That links to a bunch of non-specific things that mention club membership cards in passing. That exists, or used to exist anyway at similar establishments here, but isn't some kind of national identification gay men are required to carry.

Cf. #65: it was a fucking pink triangle card, something you would not have led to expect in Western Europe in the 2000s.

 

[TX-Beau]

Cf. #65: it was a fucking pink triangle card, something you would not have led to expect in Western Europe in the 2000s.

I'm confused, is this something the government is requiring you to buy? Do you have to buy it from the Government?

The pink triangle is surely in bad taste, but if it wasn't the government that designed it, it's not their fault. I understand your point, but as an American at this juncture in history that sounds a little less terrible than this:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article16304408.html

Sometimes these days it feels like 1935.

 

[kallipolis]

No. You don't get it: what that norm states is that you can not walk as a free citizen in any business open to public, but you must be identified as a gay person in a place specific for "your kind", so nobody is allowed to enter a gay club unless willingly to identify themselves as gay, and you are forced to become a member of that place, as if you were forced to become a member of any store to be able or business in general to be able to have a drink or buy something or, merely, to wander around FREELY and privately, which also means that all the closeted gay Italians will avoid hanging out in a club because of that norm. The norm turns a private, free citizen into a private, secluded version of yourself.

That's what the riff raff is about...

And notice I didn't talk of that norm as something in the present

You can put any spin on your misrepresentation of facts....to suit your sense of outrage....but the government of Italy did not issue these cards....comprende, amigo?

 

[belamyi]

I'm confused, is this something the government is requiring you to buy? Do you have to buy it from the Government?

The pink triangle is surely in bad taste, but if it wasn't the government that designed it, it's not their fault. I understand your point, but as an American at this juncture in history that sounds a little less terrible than this:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article16304408.html

Sometimes these days it feels like 1935.

That rule forces you to be a member of the foremost gay organization in Italy: you are not an Italian who happens to be gay, you are a gay, and only so you are allowed to go to places for you and only you. It's not club membership, it's reverse segregation.

I assume it is still the norm, because I have not talked to Italian people in a couple of years, but the point is that it EVER has been accepted, without any fuss and "riff raff", in recent years, not back in the 1970s or 1980s. The pink triangle is a reference I made to I assume you know what, since you used the expression "in bad taste".

In any case, truly, all that, included what you posted, is nothing compared to what's to come: all our rights depend of economic and political stability, and once that cracks down, there are rivers of shitload waiting to fall over the world, and gay-bashing is part of that.


But you know what's even worse? that what we are reading now and know is happening, being mostly electronic, will be easily dismissed as gay propaganda lies of our era by the same clueless, mindless who believe the wrong is all on the other side of their own religion and nationality.

 

[kallipolis]

That rule forces you to be a member of the foremost gay organization in Italy: you are not an Italian who happens to be gay, you are a gay, and only so you are allowed to go to places for you and only you. It's not club membership, it's reverse segregation.

I assume it is still the norm, because I have not talked to Italian people in a couple of years, but the point is that it EVER has been accepted, without any fuss and "riff raff", in recent years, not back in the 1970s or 1980s. The pink triangle is a reference I made to I assume you know what, since you used the expression "in bad taste".

In any case, truly, all that, included what you posted, is nothing compared to what's to come: all our rights depend of economic and political stability, and once that cracks down, there are rivers of shitload waiting to fall over the world, and gay-bashing is part of that.

Let's confront your predictable pedantic hot air....these privately issued cards are in free circulation among gays, particularly those who use saunas for sexual encounters....to ensure that trouble makers are kept out....it is that simple....Berlusconi was not involved in this matter, nor any politician....familiar faces are not obliged to show their cards when frequenting their local gay bar....gay foreign tourists are encouraged to invest in these cards....

 

[belamyi]

You can put any spin on your misrepresentation of facts....to suit your sense of outrage....but the government of Italy did not issue these cards....comprende, amigo?

No, the government only hides behind all the gay organizations and businesses and require people to live publicly, in public businesses, as gay people only if they identify, literally, with a card, as gay people... ¿te enteras? καταλαβαίνετε;

 

[Benvolio]

No doubt, some gays would prefer a club where only gays are allowed. A place where you can sit down next to a guy and start a conversation without having to wonder if he is gay or likely to be offended. The real question is, should the law prohibit that, prohibiting discrimination against non gays?

 

[kallipolis]

View attachment 1101158 No, the government only hides behind all the gay organizations and businesses and require people to live publicly, in public businesses, as gay people only if they identify, literally, with a card, as gay people... ¿te enteras? καταλαβαίνετε;

Alice in Wonderland.....dreaming.....conspiracy theories are not popular on this forum....try Hot Topics

 

[belamyi]

Let's confront your predictable pedantic hot air....these privately issued cards are in free circulation among gays, particularly those who use saunas for sexual encounters....to ensure that trouble makers are kept out....it is that simple....Berlusconi was not involved in this matter, nor any politician....familiar faces are not obliged to show their cards when frequenting their local gay bar....gay foreign tourists are encouraged to invest in these cards....

Ok whatever. Let's pretend you are right and forget all I wrote makes any sense, and just wait until younger people get the chance to be hot-headed and stonewalled against normal, sober, decent and God-fearing citizens.
You will probably not live enough to see what that undercurrent leads to, so be happy thinking there is nothing wrong with that... it's definitely so easy to dupe people, particularly if you do it openly and with the right screening: you can even kill 150 of them and nobody could have ever had the slightest hint about it.

 

[kallipolis]

No doubt, some gays would prefer a club where only gays are allowed. A place where you can sit down next to a guy and start a conversation without having to wonder if he is gay or likely to be offended. The real question is, should the law prohibit that, prohibiting discrimination against non gays?

There is no law in Italy that prohibits non gays from entering a gay bar...but door staff can use their discretion to refuse entry...if they do not like your face...therefore the matter of discriminatory behaviour towards straights will not arise...

 

[kallipolis]

Ok whatever. Let's pretend you are right and forget all I wrote makes any sense, and just wait until younger people get the chance to be hot-headed and stonewalled against normal, sober, decent and God-fearing citizens.
You will probably not live enough to see what that undercurrent leads to, so be happy thinking there is nothing wrong with that... it's definitely so easy to dupe people, particularly if you do it openly and with the right screening: you can even kill 150 of them and nobody could have ever had the slightest hint about it.

You are once again spending your time here ventilating with many words of no consequence,,,,

...your initial post on this matter is incorrect...

 

[TX-Beau]

No doubt, some gays would prefer a club where only gays are allowed. The real question is, should the law prohibit that, prohibiting discrimination against non gays?

Private clubs in the US ARE allowed to discriminate genius, public accommodations are not.

 

[belamyi]

No doubt, some gays would prefer a club where only gays are allowed. A place where you can sit down next to a guy and start a conversation without having to wonder if he is gay or likely to be offended. The real question is, should the law prohibit that, prohibiting discrimination against non gays?

But a norm like that requires that ALL clubs are segregationist, not just a possibility catering for the needs of a certain public: it excludes all possibilities of normal interaction with people irrespective of sexual orientation, and effectively turns illegal the "straight friendly" concept.

Everybody should be aware that explicitness in commandment is not the only way of forbidding, and in fact the forbidden letter does not forbid anything if you keep the means to turn around that norm, while you can effectively forbid something by clogging all the ways to achieving it, without bothering to address interdiction explicitly. That goes beyond the Italian card thing and even the subject of this thread, because you don't even need to wait until law enforcement turns weak to destroy the people you hate: if someone hates someone, they do not need to bash them, maybe not even actually target and segregate them, only stifle them indirectly in an apparently normal and orderly context, in which any sort of protest would be the evil, not the other way round.

 

[kallipolis]

Note my highlighting of gay cruise bars, and saunas used for sexual encounters....

http://www.patroc.com/rome/#arcigay

Like everywhere in Italy, a membership card is required for all gay cruise bars and saunas, usually the Anddos OnePass card or the Arcigay card. In Rome, that card is also required for some of the gay parties. If you don't have an Anddos OnePass card or Arcigay card yet, you can usually acquire it at the entrance of the venues that require the card. (For foreigners it is 8 € for 1 month. When you acquire the card, you need to show your photo ID; after that you only need the membership card.)

 

[belamyi]

Private clubs in the US ARE allowed to discriminate genius, public accommodations are not.

Again... *************facepalm******************** that norm makes ALL clubs private: it turns homosexuality into something more secret, hidden, segregated, something that others won't know directly about, because not allowed to know directly without a card they won't need, so it effectively segregates underground and even make it liable of any lies the haters may feel free to invent about what actually goes on in those "private" places.

Being private is a choice, not a norm, unless you either want to hide something, or to separate something or somebody from the rest: and it's not that bad if you choose to do so as when you compel others to do so. "You want to be gay? ok, but indentify yourself and, please, keep yourselves apart".
What's next, legal enforcement of gay ghettos? maybe in US it can pass for normal because there are so many communities rubbing against each other, and so much hate half-unleashed out there, that you may prefer to live in separate ghettos, and I think that may even be the future, but I have been raised in a place in which people do not live and work in places segregated from the rest of the world, no Chinatowns, no Gaytowns: we all still have our privacy and you are even allowed to have closets and basements of crime if you want, but we are not segregating people according to this or that pretending we are being "practical" or serving specific needs.