Iraq wants us out!

[tbonez]

I've been told I need to consume two martinis and calm down before can get my blow job.

The Koran is about five centuries newer than the bible, it's in it's original text, unaltered and said to be the word of God, thus it's a fundamentalist faith. The Bible, as we know it, is a translation of a translation of a translation, severely abridged and not the direct unaltered, unfiltered,word of God, thus, NOT a fundamentalistreligon. That's only the tip of the iceberg.

One martini down, temperature down by a few degrees, a good chub starting.

 

[Spiff]

Iraq doesn't want us to stay to fix what we broke. We've already shown them we are incapable. And converting their country into a full democracy isn't their idea of fixing things.

 

[Apollo]

I've been told I need to consume two martinis and calm down before can get my blow job.

The Koran is about five centuries newer than the bible, it's in it's original text, unaltered and said to be the word of God, thus it's a fundamentalist faith. The Bible, as we know it, is a translation of a translation of a translation, severely abridged and not the direct unaltered, unfiltered,word of God, thus, NOT a fundamentalistreligon. That's only the tip of the iceberg.

One martini down, temperature down by a few degrees, a good chub starting.

Oh lord, you can't be serious with that logic. Because the Koran is partially "new" and is the word of God, they are fundamentalist?

Despite the translations of the Bible, it is still the "word of God" and I don't think people really take into consideration thousands of years of translations when following it word for word.

Also, what about the Torah? That is pretty much the oldest record of a religion, and has been carefully taken care of by Jews for centuries. And, the Bible is not 5, 000 years old, the Torah is. So are all jews fundamentalist?

I think what you are doing, is watching too much CNN and deciding that what you see on TV, is how they all are. Kinda like when the news covers gay pride parades and puts the most flamboyant boys they can find on television.

 

[Apollo]

I was 22 and living in Los Angeles (west hollywood) when the US invaded Iraq. I remember working at the mall, and I worked for a French company: Chanel. And other US citizens would come up to me and tell me that they were not going to buy French products.

The logic was so wrong then, and I knew it. The US was lied to by its administration: the Bush camp. I really was hurt and felt America had lost it's direction. I was directly impacted at work b/c some US citizens decided French products were "unpatriotic." I figured if people were so easily duped by this logic, we were headed for trouble.

Five years later, we finally have hope presented in front of us. Let's change this country b/c we can.

I was probably 14 or so when we invaded Iraq, and I remember seeing a story on how local stores were changing the names of French Fries into freedom fries.

I remember that after I stopped laughing, I called them dumbass idiots who need a life.

 

[tbonez]

Oh lord, you can't be serious with that logic. Because the Koran is partially "new" and is the word of God, they are fundamentalist?.

You got it Pontiac!

Despite the translations of the Bible, it is still the "word of God" and I don't think people really take into consideration thousands of years of translations when following it word for word.

No, it isn't. It's the inspired word(s) of God. (With some exceptions.) HUGE difference!

Also, what about the Torah? That is pretty much the oldest record of a religion, and has been carefully taken care of by Jews for centuries. And, the Bible is not 5, 000 years old, the Torah is. So are all jews fundamentalist?

It's still a interpretation as the of the Torah has been filtered through 5000 years of evolution of Hebrew. It's certainly a more fundamentalist religion than Christianity but it's STILL the inspired word(s) of God, not the verbatim word of God.

I think what you are doing, is watching too much CNN and deciding that what you see on TV, is how they all are. Kinda like when the news covers gay pride parades and puts the most flamboyant boys they can find on television.

Wrong again. I don't watch CNN nor much TV at all.

My point was (and is) that Islam is a fundamentalist faith. That's neither good, nor bad. It says nothing about the wide variance of understanding or execution of what it means to be "a Muslim", nor does it suggest a universal Muslim code of conduct or shared values.

You decided to attach "motive" to my statement, a motive that I didn't ever intend. I am likely about as secular as person as you'll ever meet and I don't make ANY personal attributions based on a person being Muslim...or Christian or a Jew or none of the above.

 

[Apollo]

^ Ok So I answered your post, but pushed ctrl something by accident and closed the window. So the abreviated version.

I don't think any religion finds their books "inspired" by God in the least, so your statement really holds no water. If none of the people actually believe it is "inspired" than it isn't.

For Jews, I think they still have the Torah in the original language, and they still speak that language. During a bamitvah, they actually read from that ancient book. I could be wrong, and of course over time, languages develop. But essentially it hasn't gone through much change.

And as long as you aren't attacking the religion fine. But I find your statements, broad and sweeping, and just throwing out some statement I have never heard, nor do I think many others have either.

I did attach motive to your statements. You just attached a loaded word to everyone who follows the religion, simply because the religious book isn't super old. I mean, seriously, thats your reasoning?

"ohhhh the book is almost brand new, they must then ALLL be fundies"

 

[rareboy]

Liberals. When will you learn. I actually care about what happens to Iraq's people.

So do liberals. Look up the body count of Iraqui civilians since the US invaded.

Then tell me how that fits with your concern.

Iraq is already a permanent stain on the credibility and moral integrity of the US.

 

[tbonez]

I don't think any religion finds their books "inspired" by God in the least, so your statement really holds no water. If none of the people actually believe it is "inspired" than it isn't

I'm going t make this as clear as I can....

The Bible is a collection of of various narrative styles. Much of it is profits and apostles giving their rendition of a message or sign from God, some of it is one persons interpretations of acts of God... In other words:NOT the literal word of God.

Don't believe me? Ask a priest...ANY priest!

The Koran is believed to be the final revelation of God (By Muslims) It is considered to be the record of the words spoken by Muhammad. It is the "literal word of God" to Muslims. All Muslims use the same Koran BTW.

Don't believe me? Ask a Muslim...ANY Muslim!

Only "Christian fundamentalist" think the Bible is the literal word of God, all of the major Christian churches accept and understand that it isn't.

To recap: To be a "fundamentalist" you must believe that your religious text is the unaltered literal word of God...As Muslims do.

This is not radical concept, in fact it's a commonly held view by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about as opposed to the unwashed masses of CNN/Fox news viewers.

What you think is a Muslim "fundamentalist" is in fact, an Islamist.

BTW, what I originally said: "Broadly speaking, many Americans would call it "Fundamentalism", which is a misnomer as Islam is a "fundamentalist" religion by definition...In other words all Muslims are "fundamentalist"."

If you can take offence or find racism in that comment you are seeing something that isn't there...unless you are paranoid or delusional IMO.

 

[tbonez]

canada loved to help us. look above at my post.

I didn't get it then...

We didn't send troops, contribute money or equipment and the illegal invasion was roundly criticized by the only official voice of Canada, the government. Not to mention a majority of Canadians ALWAYS have condemned the war...Unlike a majority of Americans who thought it was a "good idea" for years and years.

 

[Inwood]

Liberals. When will you learn. I actually care about what happens to Iraq's people.

If we leave Iraq in chaos, then that would be a black mark on the U.S's record.

For the record, I'm a Libertarian

So you are ready to accept what might happen if we pull out in let's say now? Or you don't give a damn what happens to the Iraqi people?

Have you ever had a guest at a party overstay their welcome? You entertain a few people at your home, which was supposed to last 2-3 hours but 5 hours later there's one or two lingering guests that, despite all of your hint dropping, they simply won't leave? And what would you do if, when you finally say "y'know what? I'm tired and have to work tomorrow. Can you folks please go home now?" the guests say "No, we're not ready to go home yet."?

I'm guessing that's what the Iraqis are feeling at the moment, hence their statement to get the fuck out. And just who are we to tell them we don't want to go? We illegally invaded a sovereign nation, broke the thing, and can't seem to fix it properly.

After a contractor comes in to do a job and royally fucks it up, wouldn't you fire them before the job gets further fucked?

We want out. The Iraqis want us out. I'd say it's time to get the fuck out.

 

[Puzuzzu]

well France took that chance, I and i have more respect for them. plus if you saw my earlier thread about working for Chanel and the horrible experience I had with Us customers during the invasion.

France is a part of the EU, and the members of the EU band together and support each other. If Canada is boycotted, it would hit our economy hard......Boycotting the USA isn't that easy considering how close we are.

 

[tbonez]

if you read my thread i was always against the invasion. it's not a war. but now the invasion is unpopular and ending.

I understand that you were always opposed to the "invasion."

Calling it an "invasion" vs. a "war" is mostly vague semantics IMO. Since when does it take 8 years to "invade" a country the size of Iraq?! Besides, your government and the American military has repeatedly referred to it as "the WAR in Iraq" - "The WAR on terrorism" - "The WAR against insurgents".

BTW, your source that alleges Canadian support for the war...The World Socialist Web Site...Please! LOL Besides, it only deals with a few out-of-context quotes. The fact remains that Canada didn't do any of the things the article suggest "we" were contemplating. Again. no troops, no money, no equipment, no "support".

 

[tbonez]

If Canada is boycotted, it would hit our economy hard...

You bet it would!

Lets see, Canada is the largest supplier of imported oil to the US...WAY more than Saudi, more than Iraq, Nigeria... more than ANYONE. So, you going to boycott our oil?*

Ya, that would really hurt our economy. Like what we we do with our oil? It's not as if there is any demand for it globally.

Secondly, most major US corporations have HUGE investments in Canada and the Canadian economy...Manufacturing, exploration and development, branch plants...Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

* http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

[Inwood]

shortly canada is america's bitch. i don't mean to be mean, but really?

That's an incredibly rude statement to make, and only weakens your argument further.

Canada and the US have a very positive symbiotic relationship, and either one's economy would be decimated if the other decided to spite the other.

 

[tbonez]

your complaining does nothing. my vote mean everything.

Don't know about that. My "complaining" and that of countless others seems to have permeated the American mentality. Seems the population of the US now (in large part) agrees with me...unlike 8 years ago.

As for your vote...ya is't important. About 1/220,000,000th of the big picture.

If a sizeable majority of eligible Americans would actually get off their duffs and actually vote it would do a hell of a lot of good.

Consistently only about half of eligible American voters even care enough to participate in the democratic process. Contrast that with about 75% for Canada.

US - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

Canada - http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=pas&document=turnout&lang=e&textonly=false

 

[tbonez]

shortly canada is america's bitch. i don't mean to be mean, but really?

You think so?

Perhaps you can explain how Canada's economy has grown by leaps and bounds while yours has flat-lined and failed in the last 8 years. Explain how your "bitch's" currency has sky-rocketed against yours while the US dollar is in the toilet globally. Explain how we have had over a decade of surpluses while the US is running devastatingly massive deficits. Explain the trend lines of GDP to debt in the US vs. Canada.

Puddin, your "bitch" is kicking your ass!

P.S. For the record: I think the US is still one of the greatest democracies in the world...top 20 or 30 anyhow. I just think you have lost your way and need to rethink this obsession with global hegemony. It's not working for you and quite frankly you have more immediate concerns to deal with.

 

[tbonez]

ah have you read my threads i opposed the invasion day one. i worked for a french company and they opposed the invasion unlike canada.

Please! Seeing as the best you can seem to muster to support your utterly false alegation that Canada 'supported the war' is a link to The World Socialist Web Site In fact, if you actually read the article it only suggests that Canada was considering supporting the war effort...

I'd say that about sums up your argument in a nut-shell....beyond lame and pathetic.

Many people may be daft, but few are that daft.

 

[Apollo]

I'm going t make this as clear as I can....

The Bible is a collection of of various narrative styles. Much of it is profits and apostles giving their rendition of a message or sign from God, some of it is one persons interpretations of acts of God... In other words:NOT the literal word of God.

Don't believe me? Ask a priest...ANY priest!

The Koran is believed to be the final revelation of God (By Muslims) It is considered to be the record of the words spoken by Muhammad. It is the "literal word of God" to Muslims. All Muslims use the same Koran BTW.

Don't believe me? Ask a Muslim...ANY Muslim!

Only "Christian fundamentalist" think the Bible is the literal word of God, all of the major Christian churches accept and understand that it isn't.

To recap: To be a "fundamentalist" you must believe that your religious text is the unaltered literal word of God...As Muslims do.

This is not radical concept, in fact it's a commonly held view by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about as opposed to the unwashed masses of CNN/Fox news viewers.

What you think is a Muslim "fundamentalist" is in fact, an Islamist.

BTW, what I originally said: "Broadly speaking, many Americans would call it "Fundamentalism", which is a misnomer as Islam is a "fundamentalist" religion by definition...In other words all Muslims are "fundamentalist"."

If you can take offence or find racism in that comment you are seeing something that isn't there...unless you are paranoid or delusional IMO.

Fine, let me make myself clear.

Nothing you say will ever make your statement true. You are calling a whole group, the entire group, fundamentalist. Now you have your definition of what fundamentalism means, but seeing how languages evolve and change meaning, your idea of fundamentalism isn't what the world's view of fundamentalism means.

To you fundamentalism means a deep connection with your religion (i am assuming). To the rest of the world fundamentalism is akin to extremism. People believing so deeply in their religion that they might do something extreme. Like, ohhhh, stalking a gay guy as he comes out of a night club and beat him to death. Or flying planes into the world trade centers. Of course, both aren't a comparison of the other, but they are a comparison to the new meaning of religious fundamentalism.

The fact that you think that just because the Quran is a seemingly new text of faith is absolutely idiotic. Who the fuck cares how new the fucking thing is.

"ohhhh it hasnt been retranslated a few thousand times" I am willing to bet, the Vatican has on record the original language the bible was written in.

Besides that, it is still the WORD OF GOD. It doesn't matter how much it has been retranslated. It is the word of God, and that is enough for most people. Not all Muslims or followers of Islam are fundamentalist. They may only follow small parts of the Quran because they give them guidance on living a good life. Look at Andreus for example. He inturprets the Quran in the way it fits a serves him. The meaning of the words of God to him are personal.

I know you aren't attacking the religion, or the people. Nor are you attacking the religion. Nor do I believe you have a motive behind your statements. What I don't like is your making a sweeping generalization about a group of people as if it were fact. And then giving what could be the funniest and weakest reason why you believe it is fact. Especially when you know that the word fundamentalist does not hold the same meaning it may to you. You know very well that that word is a loaded word, especially in the gay community.

Fundamentalist to a gay person means danger, stay away. And not all practicing Muslims are dangerous, nor should you stay away from them.

 

[tbonez]

lets invade canada for oil then. have a sense of humor, you are so wound up. your country only exist b/c of the US.

Great plan. Very funny.

Despite my best efforts I'm struggling not to just write you off as a "typical American" and subscribe to the alternate theory as to why you are called "Yanks".

Perhaps Canada should have done more to oppose the war in Iraq. Perhaps, like the French, we should have just told you to go screw yourselves with an AK-47. The French aren't in the position of sharing a continent with the US nor are the French and US economies inseparably entwined. They had rather less to lose by tell you what they really thought.

Besides, if you have ever been to France you'll know that right up there with building quirky cars and making decent wine, America-bashing is a part of their nation identity...Not so much with Canada.

 

[Apollo]

Great plan. Very funny.

Despite my best efforts I'm struggling not to just write you off as a "typical American" and subscribe to the alternate theory as to why you are called "Yanks".

Perhaps Canada should have done more to oppose the war in Iraq. Perhaps, like the French, we should have just told you to go screw yourselves with an AK-47. The French aren't in the position of sharing a continent with the US nor are the French and US economies inseparably entwined. They had rather less to lose by tell you what they really thought.

Besides, if you have ever been to France you'll know that right up there with building quirky cars and making decent wine, America-bashing is a part of their nation identity...Not so much with Canada.

Well duh. We bash the French, they bash us. It's been this way since forever.