Is cheap labor immoral?

[Alistair]

BTW when I was in my early 20’s I volunteered with my church for Habitat for Humanity and worked on about 10 homes. I know exactly what help was allowed under codes and what had to be done by licensed electricians and plumbers.

 

[Alistair]

Also

You cannot do plumbing work in Indiana without a license. Apprentices are the only exception, but they must work with a licensed plumber.

Source: https://www.servicetitan.com/licensing/plumbing/indiana

Also

A licensed handyman is not allowed to do any electrical work if it connects to your home's electrical system directly unless the handyman also holds an electrician's license, which some of these providers do have issued.

And

When do I need an electrical permit?
An electrical permit is required when you:

Install or alter any permanent wiring or electrical device.

Run additional wiring in your home.

Install a new electrical outlet or light fixture.

Install a receptacle for a garage-door opener.

Convert from fuse box to circuit breakers.

Install or alter low-voltage systems, such as security alarms, stereos, or computer systems.

An electrical permit is not required when you:

Replace broken or damaged electrical outlets, light fixtures, and light switches with a like replacement.

Replace approved fuses and defective breakers.

Replace light bulbs and fluorescent tubes.

Replace an existing garbage disposal and dishwasher, or similar appliance of 30
amps or less.

Install coaxial cable for cable television(CATV); however, it must be listed as the proper type of insulated wire for the project.

Replace an existing door bell.

 

[Dominus]

No licensed electrician would do that. First they have to have their work inspected and it would put their license at jeopardy and it’s simply not allowed by building code. The same with plumbing.

If you’re doing unpermitted work on your rentals it’s going to come back to bite you in the ass. If you have something happen like a house fire due to improper wiring it could actually end up with you in jail.

And yet you are wrong about that. I work closely with the city inspector.

 

[Dominus]

Also



Source: https://www.servicetitan.com/licensing/plumbing/indiana

Also



And

Edited. My mistake. Did not see NOT NEED.

That said. I work closely with the building commissioner office here. Last time I called they recognized my voice and asked me how I was doing by name. I'm sure I'm more than covered.

 

[Alistair]

And yet you are wrong about that. I work closely with the city inspector.

No, I’m not. And I don’t believe that at all.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

No, I’m not. And I don’t believe that at all.

You peeped that too?

 

[gsdx]

And you think any of those things require more than a few brain cells. Are you saying the drywall guys are all idiots who don't know how to use a tape measure?

You do love putting words into other people's mouths.

As for that drywall lift, you want cheap? You're talking expensive equipment. I was talking about two 2x4s.

As for a few brain cells, if you don't know what the hell you're doing or how to do it, all the brain cells in the world won't help. You'll still end up with shit on your walls and ceilings.

 

[ShadowCat]

If a person is self-employed, they're free to charge out their own labour at whatever level they wish. To build up a new business for instance, a tradesman might conceivably charge low rates. However, in the UK an employer must in law pay his employees at least the National Minimum Wage (NMW) which I believe is now £9.50 per hour. That equates to US$12.20.

Lemme tell you 12.20 an hour in Chicago is nothing! Property tax alone will kill you we pay over $6000.00 a year, having a car is asinine as the stickers for it are $150.00 for the plate and 170.00 for the window sticker not to mention insurance, gas, and upkeep, And in case you're thinking electric car 1 hardly any charging stations 2 the yearly registration is like 349.00 Water will equal out to $200+ a month for a family, Electricity is close to 100.00, Gas is over 1100.00 and thats on a payment plan! Then you have to figure in food, clothing, work expenses, entertainment, school health care last month alone with "savings coupons" I still paid over 500.00 for 2 medications! My health insurance is over 300.00 a month and forget about seeing a specialist if need be 1 need a referral and 2 its a waste of 105.00 for them to tell me probably what I can find myself off of webmd and the rest of the internet!

 

[Dominus]

You do love putting words into other people's mouths.

As for that drywall lift, you want cheap? You're talking expensive equipment. I was talking about two 2x4s.

As for a few brain cells, if you don't know what the hell you're doing or how to do it, all the brain cells in the world won't help. You'll still end up with shit on your walls and ceilings.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication comes from between you and me.

Let me repeat. Putting up drywall is relatively simple. I have been doing it for years. Lots of people have been doing it for years. I'm not sure why you keep insisting putting up drywall is this super complicated thing that requires super phd and stuff to do it.

I have a drywall lift. Same as the one I linked to. When I first started doing this business, I (by myself) put up drywall in a 30'x30'x12' room with a drywall lift. That house is now renting out for $1600/month.

Anyway, I'm not arguing about this anymore. Continue to think putting up drywall requires a phd if you want.

 

[Dominus]

Lemme tell you 12.20 an hour in Chicago is nothing! Property tax alone will kill you we pay over $6000.00 a year, having a car is asinine as the stickers for it are $150.00 for the plate and 170.00 for the window sticker not to mention insurance, gas, and upkeep, And in case you're thinking electric car 1 hardly any charging stations 2 the yearly registration is like 349.00 Water will equal out to $200+ a month for a family, Electricity is close to 100.00, Gas is over 1100.00 and thats on a payment plan! Then you have to figure in food, clothing, work expenses, entertainment, school health care last month alone with "savings coupons" I still paid over 500.00 for 2 medications! My health insurance is over 300.00 a month and forget about seeing a specialist if need be 1 need a referral and 2 its a waste of 105.00 for them to tell me probably what I can find myself off of webmd and the rest of the internet!

Holy toledo! Why is your gas so much?

 

[gsdx]

I'm not sure where the miscommunication comes from between you and me.

You ask our opinion and we respond, but it doesn't mean shit because you already have your own opinion before you even post the question, and that's the only opinion that counts, apparently.

If you already know the answer, why in hell do you ask us?

 

[Alistair]

The shit is really getting deep in this thread

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The shit is really getting deep in this thread

Want some popcorn honey?

 

[johaninsc]

ah...another loaded baiting thread by dingdong Dominus

 

[belamyi]

No, what is immoral is considering cheap labor moral.

 

[belamyi]

And yet you are wrong about that. I work closely with the city inspector.

What is that, The Big Heat?

 

[Dominus]

No, what is immoral is considering cheap labor moral.

Well, in my experience everybody wants work done on their house to be free. Even the most liberal people who wants universal Healthcare and all that good stuff wants their lawn mowed for free. This is certainly a paradox because they turn around and complain about wages being too low.

The other day, I hired a couple guys to fix a section of the roof of one of my apartment buildings. Material cost was about $800. I paid them $200 each. Took them about 6 hours to do. If you think about it, it wasn't strictly labor that I paid for. It was also their experience and expertise.

Just like how something might take a mechanic 5 minutes to fix but cost you $50. It wasn't the labor you are paying for. It was the mechanic's experience and knowhow that's worth $50.

So yes I think it is a moral question because the same people who cry about wages being too low also want things to be done as cheap as possible.

Also, might as well address this here. I fail to see how this is a bait thread? What is so controversial about this topic? We have only been talking about wages for as long as there's been people around. It's not like this thread is about wages and giving free blow jobs. If you guys are so uncomfortable about a topic on wages, then we are doomed as a society because inequality would never be tackled.

 

[belamyi]

^ You mean to point at the old same story: the screwing between those who do not actually believe what they preach, and those who do not even preach that in which they proudly do not believe at all.

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How can you separate "labor" from "expertise"... that is, the work done from the ability to do it

In any case, you have a very glorious American tradition (that we have discussed in JUB sometime) of tipping: hiring someone to have some piece of work done for free because you do not care whether the worker is actually able to do it, and leave the burden of the cost of both employment and service and, eventually, damage or unfulfillment, entirely to the customer.

 

[gsdx]

^ It's not a paradox. Hypocrisy, maybe, but certainly not a paradox.

And it's only a "topic on wages" in that too many people don't want to pay a person the true value of their time and labour. It's much easier to hire cheap and then bitch and complain when the work isn't up to par. I'll say it again. You get what you pay for.

 

[Dominus]

^ You mean to point at the old same story: the screwing between those who do not actually believe what they preach, and those who do not even preach that in which they proudly do not believe at all.

- - - Updated - - -

How can you separate "labor" from "expertise"... that is, the work done from the ability to do it.

What I mean is having a lawyer that charges $300/hr to type out a letter for you costs you $300 whereas having a secretary type out the same letter for you costs considerably less.