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Is Islam a danger for Western civilization?

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This thread is predicated on a fundamental premise that these acts of barbarism or pockets of extremism are directly created by being of the Islamic faith, and thus, if we do not wish to condone these acts we should regard Islam as intrinsically negative.

As you yourself pointed out, we could go back to plenty of historic precedent showing Christianity associated with equally abhorrent acts, and we could in fact do it for any religion-- including Buddhism, which for some reason people ignorant of Asian history seem to connotate as devoid of the kind of sectarian violence and faith-based torture and murder that we only talk about today with regards to Islam.

And we could equally find all kinds of tribal or historically embedded strife between people whose primary difference was ethnic, not religious at all, and find equally similar acts.

So I reject the fundamental premise, and the OP is utterly not interested in any actually credible or rational attempt to establish that premise other than continuing to link youtubes and pictures which support the preestablished leap of logic. You are now defending this leap as reasonable.

That is just mean as you are using that phrase to paint my differing opinion as despicable and therefore my point of view being heinous and unacceptable.

Of course you are right that we could take many other historical events to depict a similar scenario but the problem with Islam is that it is a present day problem that could and in many ways does affect our present lives. It is certainly going to prove a problem in Europe in the coming years due to our democratic system and the numbers of Muslims present; hopefully it will be a problem we will overcome and learn to adapt to the needs of everyone.

I do understand that you cannot support anyone who might have the temerity to find anything of interest in Pat's more than suspicious posts but I will stick to my opinion that other members can make their own minds up about what to think about the stories he links to whilst at the same time finding a certain value in being made aware of what is happen in a particular part of the world.
 
That is just mean as you are using that phrase to paint my differing opinion as despicable and therefore my point of view being heinous and unacceptable.

You either agree or disagree with the fundamental premise of this thread; I'm uncertain how I'm attempting to unfairly castigate you when I presume that you agree with it when you defend this thread and some kind of contribution Pat is making with it when he's made no attempt at all to rationally support the underlying assumptions. Equally, a thread about black people being a threat with a list of news items about crimes committed by black people would have hate rhetoric at its core, as it would eschew any attempt to be a rational or impartial discussion at all about either crime or black people or what factors might influence black crime rates or black arrest rates or the rate of coverage of such, but instead merely leaps to a shared understanding that of course something innate to blackness is to blame, without even the pretext at showing how.

Of course you are right that we could take many other historical events to depict a similar scenario but the problem with Islam is that it is a present day problem that could and in many ways does affect our present lives. It is certainly going to prove a problem in Europe in the coming years due to our democratic system and the numbers of Muslims present; hopefully it will be a problem we will overcome and learn to adapt to the needs of everyone.

I know many Armenians in the U.S. and none of them want to declare a jihad against Turkey due to the Armenian genocide, or against people of Turkish descent living in the U.S. Some are Muslim, some are not. The economic and political factors which contribute to the kinds of extremism we see in parts of the Middle East become vastly less relevant almost overnight when people immigrate to a first world country, but even moreso when you're talking about what their children or grandchildren will think and believe as adults, or how their faith will fit into their lives in the new country compared to how it fit into the lives of their grandparents in some wartorn poverty-stricken corner of the Middle East or southwestern Asia. That discussion would be worth having but instead this thread is about "nope, they'll be Muslims, let's discuss why that's bad, now look at some violent pictures."

I do understand that you cannot support anyone who might have the temerity to find anything of interest in Pat's more than suspicious posts but I will stick to my opinion that other members can make their own minds up about what to think about the stories he links to whilst at the same time finding a certain value in being made aware of what is happen in a particular part of the world.

It might help not to give out lectures about how others should respect the opinions others form when your first response to me was essentially telling me why mine was somehow best left silent.
 
Are they not?

Granted, it is irrational to condemn an entire faith for the attrocities carried out by some elements within, and we can consider many of the extremists to be terrorists, whether Boko Haram or Al Queda or Hezbollah etc, these terrorist groups are held together by a cause which is political in nature, and where the politics derive from an interpretation of Islam. Its not akin to the IRA who were largely divided by religious belief but were motivated by sheer politics of seperatism/loyalism respectively, or ETA, motivated by a desire for independence.

I don't agree that it's not akin. Strangely, in stable and prosperous countries that have large Muslim populations, we simply don't see the same grain of widespread violent extremism that we see in destabilized areas with a host of economic, political, geographic, ethnic and historic conflicts which often umbrella under the banner of, but are not rooted in, Islam.

There are no shortage of people in the UK who are anti-muslim, regardless that the barbarism we witness is a very poor example of the tenets of the faith. Its wholly right for Islam to claim it is not represented by these extremists, and the considered of us will accept the truth. But at the same time, it must be accepted also that somewhere along the line, a huge failing within Islam has led to such a huge divide that provides these extremists considerable support. Imagine a USA where 80% of the population backed the Fred Phelps school of thought. There has to be a change in numbers supporting the right path before the extremism subsides.

This paragraph entirely by itself sets you in opposition to the OP who merely presents that the Muslim religion period can and should be judged by the acts of its worst extremists. This thread doesn't ask "Is Islamic extremism a danger for western civilization", and no one would disagree with that premise. What this thread does instead is conflate Islam and Islamic extremism as, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. And it's not limited to this thread. There's no end to the threads the OP has derailed off topic by inserting posts precisely like the ones you see in this thread, no matter how wildly unrelated to the subject it might have been.
 
You wouldn't get an argument from me that Islam as being the theocratic head of state and Islam as being the majority religion in a stable secular government are two entirely different animals. But again, I think we can say that for most or all religions. We oppose the concept of a Christian-based government for similar reasons, and none of us needs reminding what happened to people in European countries when religion was allowed real political power.

I do however think that "religion in theocratic expression rarely ends well" and "is Islam bad in any expression" are two separate notions, I definitely agree with you on the first, but I think it's pretty clear this thread is the latter.
 
I think the situation is that muslims want us dead, but the christians want us saved. Big difference.
 
I have never said that Islam in itself is dangerous religion (at least it isn't any more so than any other), event though there is ample evidence of conflicts caused by entire Muslim communities who utilize racism and Islamophobia as tools to morally blackmail Western societies. While it's true that Muslims find it particularly difficult to adapt in Europe due to xenophobia and racism, it is also true that there is a significant contingent of the immigrant Muslim population who believe that they are entitled to special provisions and rights due to the "exceptional trait" of their religion. Whether people want to admit it or not, there is a cultural clash that, so far, has been resolved by silencing and radicalizing critics of Islam, even when their concerns are legitimate, a list of which DreamTeam has very aptly posted.

Are all Muslims evil? Well, certainly not. However, they are a problematic contingent and we cannot justify the increasing radicalism that can be observed among their files (which supposedly moderate Muslim groups rarely condemn), due to the threat that they pose to our already decreasing freedoms. Someone who hasn't been exposed to the dangers posed by these groups can hardly form an even adequate judgement regarding this situation. American Muslims are a very much diluted community without much political power; that is not, however, the case in most European countries, where a combination of xenophobia, racism, mutual ignorance and increasing waves of indoctrinated immigrants have created an ideal environment for extremism to flourish. Unfortunately, information isn't the answer anymore, and the need to establish a protocol for assimilation must be developed in order to ensure that certain groups will not endanger the freedoms and rights that everyone enjoys.

Regarding the desolation and quasi-totalitarian rule of religion in Europe, I think that placing them in a historical context is essential. Especially during the Middle Ages and beyond the schism of Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, the only legitimizing power that many rulers had, not to mention the only effective bureaucratic system in place, was Christianity. Just as more sophisticated models of governance have been developed, religion has taken not only a secondary, but even a tertiary role in the lives of many people, for the simple reason that religious institutions are not useful anymore for the adequate functioning of government structures, and the post-War period, with its unprecedented economic and technological growth, has allowed many people to broaden their horizons and adopt diverging perspectives from those provided by religion. In short, Western societies have evolved.

This cannot be said about Muslim societies, where European models of governance have been created, but there isn't a fundamental division between the way in which people perceive politics, society and religion, especially because religion imposes a legislative code that cannot be challenged, as opposed to a varying set of rules the enforcement of which can only be justified through historical contextualization. We are, simply put, importing people whose perception of religion affects everything else, and who are victimized and victimize others by the exceptionalism that they have been forced to represent, and in some cases, are happy to use as a tool to attack others.

It wasn't my intention to portray all Muslims as degenerate jihadists and potential terrorists. Yet and still, they are in the midst of a perpetual conflict that will not be resolved until we can have an objective debate, instead of polarizing critics and defenders into "radical", "right wing" and "good", "tolerant" groups.

Oh, and as for my deliberately derailing topics by inserting unrelated information in them, I am yet to find out when and how I have engaged in such behaviours.
 
We don't have to worry about this but a court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced an Internet blogger to 10 years in jail.

This is the blogger bedford he was captured—

raif-badawi-cbsnews-com.jpg


He will be flogged 1,000 times as well. Infidels and free-thinkers must be quashed!

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/05/07/us-saudi-activist-sentence-idINKBN0DN1CK20140507
 
^ :o There's a spelling error in that post.

I hope the Grammar-Nazis and the Grammar-Taliban and Lilbit don't notice.
 
It's a strange picture. Doctored to make the eyes prominent.

You may be surprised to hear that I had a short affair with a Lebanese man.

I was young and naive. He and his fellow countrymen have lovely dark upper AND lower eyelashes so much that you'd think they're wearing mascara.
 
isalam chirstains hindu spin offs ans rest a danger from a apes get a life

there go

*it a now legal a get a life*
-cheack a small print ya locale-
ooh a addons


thankyou

now a flea will a dive from a effeals tower inta glass a wata
^ we eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee splash-
_aaaaaaaaaaaaawsssssssssssssum_

thankyou
 
A Kosovo Albanian woman looks out a window in the village of Babaj Bokes after sheep were slaughtered Wednesday during the traditional feast of Saint George’s Day. Saint George is the patron saint of several nations, kingdoms, countries, and cities.(Photo by Armend Nimani/AFP/Getty Images)

0506pod05.jpg
 
^What the fuck does that have to do with Islam? St George's Day is a Christian celebration.
 
^What the fuck does that have to do with Islam? St George's Day is a Christian celebration.

She's wearing a burka, the building is smeared in blood, her husband has locked her behind bars with the other wives, and it's a place they call "Al Bania." Al Bania. Al Qaida. Al Bania. Al Qaida. Coincidence? I think not.

I don't know how all this could be going over your head. They've already won.
 
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