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Is Obama Burnt Out?

Kulindahr said:
Regarding legislation, he proposed all sorts of idiotic things that actually got in, like taxing college scholarships and letting the IRS designate all sorts of unlikely things as income. He trampled on states' rights right and left, and so frequently I can't believe that Tea Party folks hold him as a hero.
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Reagan carried out, full scale war against poor people, and people facing temporary setbacks.

We can thank Reagan and his massive tax increases on social programs and hidden taxes on the middle class, while he sliced and diced a number of them. He slashed taxes on the rich. But 3 of his most horrific decisions regarding taxes are:

The Alternative Minimum Tax! This originally was only supposed to hit 155 individuals. Under Reagan's two large changes in 1982 and 1986 it put it on its tragectory that its now on where it will hit about 50% of middle class filers this year, and expands every year here on out.

In 1982 Reagan had the IRS start taxing unemployment benefits along with other social benefits! It's effectively a 20% to 25% cut across the board on these programs! It's disgusting! Obama was the first President to try to help this awful tax "gotcha" many people don't know about until they get their tax bill, by making the first $ 2,400 of each year's unemployment benefits "non-taxable". Additionally, he screwed renters over by removing tax breaks for investors building rental properties, which was a large reason for the S&L disaster shortly thereafter. He also, instituted the start of phaseouts for Schedule A deductions, which have hammered many an upper-middle / middle class taxpayer.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Minimum_Tax
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/UnemploymentInsurance.html
 
MoltenRock III said:
Reagan carried out, full scale war against poor people, and people facing temporary setbacks.

We can thank Reagan and his massive tax increases on social programs and hidden taxes on the middle class, while he sliced and diced a number of them. He slashed taxes on the rich. But 3 of his most horrific decisions regarding taxes are:

The Alternative Minimum Tax! This originally was only supposed to hit 155 individuals. Under Reagan's two large changes in 1982 and 1986 it put it on its tragectory that its now on where it will hit about 50% of middle class filers this year, and expands every year here on out.

In 1982 Reagan had the IRS start taxing unemployment benefits along with other social benefits! It's effectively a 20% to 25% cut across the board on these programs! It's disgusting! Obama was the first President to try to help this awful tax "gotcha" many people don't know about until they get their tax bill, by making the first $ 2,400 of each year's unemployment benefits "non-taxable". Additionally, he screwed renters over by removing tax breaks for investors building rental properties, which was a large reason for the S&L disaster shortly thereafter. He also, instituted the start of phaseouts for Schedule A deductions, which have hammered many an upper-middle / middle class taxpayer.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Minimum_Tax
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/UnemploymentInsurance.html
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Getting back on-topic, the reason Reagan was brought into this discussion was his excitement, positive attitude, and excitement for America. None of which I see in Obama.

I watched Obama the other day talking to a group -- don't know which one it was -- he was talking like he was giving a lecture. Very boring.

Again, the point was that Obama could learn from Reagan's attitude -- the point had nothing to do with his policies.
 
Jack Springer said:
Getting back on-topic, the reason Reagan was brought into this discussion was his excitement, positive attitude, and excitement for America. None of which I see in Obama.

I watched Obama the other day talking to a group -- don't know which one it was -- he was talking like he was giving a lecture. Very boring.

Again, the point was that Obama could learn from Reagan's attitude -- the point had nothing to do with his policies.
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So in your world..... it's not WHAT he says, it's HOW he says it. Oh I see now, it's all about style. He must have worn the "correct" tie because you didn't describe that in a disparaging fashion.

However Mrs. Obama and her sleeveless dresses are incorrect. First Ladies are supposed to wear Laura Bush pant suits and look up adoringly at their husbands and bat their eyes.

Yet another Republican sore loser.
 
CowboyBob said:
So in your world..... it's not WHAT he says, it's HOW he says it. Oh I see now, it's all about style. He must have worn the "correct" tie because you didn't describe that in a disparaging fashion.

However Mrs. Obama and her sleeveless dresses are incorrect. First Ladies are supposed to wear Laura Bush pant suits and look up adoringly at their husbands and bat their eyes.

Yet another Republican sore loser.
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You missed the point again. I give up.
 
Jack Springer said:
Getting back on-topic, the reason Reagan was brought into this discussion was his excitement, positive attitude, and excitement for America. None of which I see in Obama.

I watched Obama the other day talking to a group -- don't know which one it was -- he was talking like he was giving a lecture. Very boring.

Again, the point was that Obama could learn from Reagan's attitude -- the point had nothing to do with his policies.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. I just find it tragic Jack, that America is so damn dumb that they'd rather be titillated by a snake oils salesman like Beck or Reagan, all the while they are getting screwed, but hey! At least they feel good about it! Whoo hooo!

It's why Gore had such a problem connecting. People found him too professor like. People like slogans and sound bytes. Again, I'm in the advertising business so I know this very well. However, big, fundamental problems and challenges facing America can't be summed up in a pithy phrase or sound byte on how to fix America. And when an Obama or Gore try to explain it to people of what it will take, they are turned off because they're "bored", or "don't want to be talked down to", or similar. Instead, these people rally around (typically Republicans) a pithy phrase that does nothing, fixes nothing, and changes nothing. It just sounds really nice.

Think about it, how do you sum up fixing the nation's energy problem, transportation problem, healthcare, and other large issues in 10 seconds or less? Or even 30 seconds or less? I do this for a living, and I can't. It can't be done. But if Americans aren't interested in learning about anything then the country deserves the fucking its getting, and will continue to get until things change fundamentally. *shrug* I wish it was easier Jack, but it ain't.
 
MoltenRock III said:
I understand what you're saying. I just find it tragic Jack, that America is so damn dumb that they'd rather be titillated by a snake oils salesman like Beck or Reagan, all the while they are getting screwed, but hey! At least they feel good about it! Whoo hooo!

It's why Gore had such a problem connecting. People found him too professor like. People like slogans and sound bytes. Again, I'm in the advertising business so I know this very well. However, big, fundamental problems and challenges facing America can't be summed up in a pithy phrase or sound byte on how to fix America. And when an Obama or Gore try to explain it to people of what it will take, they are turned off because they're "bored", or "don't want to be talked down to", or similar. Instead, these people rally around (typically Republicans) a pithy phrase that does nothing, fixes nothing, and changes nothing. It just sounds really nice.

Think about it, how do you sum up fixing the nation's energy problem, transportation problem, healthcare, and other large issues in 10 seconds or less? Or even 30 seconds or less? I do this for a living, and I can't. It can't be done. But if Americans aren't interested in learning about anything then the country deserves the fucking its getting, and will continue to get until things change fundamentally. *shrug* I wish it was easier Jack, but it ain't.
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This is surprising. Same general business area Molten.

It's not just one sound byte or phrase -- we listen to many before we make decision on who we want to put our trust in.

My take is that we have too much communication -- too much thoughtless communication. We talk too quickly without thinking. When people had to write letters they put more care into what they wanted to say. Now we just talk.

We blog. We tweet. We chat. We text. We use cell phones.

During elections all we hear are negative ads from both sides. Most people, including me don't know what to believe anymore.

in your last paragraph you mentioned something about things needing to change. I think that's what the Tea Party is all about. Although your solutions and their solutions aren't the same -- it appears you may see the same problem.
 
Jack Springer said:
Read again. You STILL don't get it.
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Tell you what. I get it. It's YOU that doesn't get it.

We're all waiting for your next Canadian Obama bashing thread. Enjoy your gay rights and government run health care.
 
Jack Springer said:
This is surprising. Same general business area Molten.

It's not just one sound byte or phrase -- we listen to many before we make decision on who we want to put our trust in.

My take is that we have too much communication -- too much thoughtless communication. We talk too quickly without thinking. When people had to write letters they put more care into what they wanted to say. Now we just talk.

We blog. We tweet. We chat. We text. We use cell phones.

During elections all we hear are negative ads from both sides. Most people, including me don't know what to believe anymore.

in your last paragraph you mentioned something about things needing to change. I think that's what the Tea Party is all about. Although your solutions and their solutions aren't the same -- it appears you may see the same problem.
Click to expand...


Not to point fingers or anything as we are all guilty to an extent, but can you honestly look at your thread starters and say you made an honest attempt to facilitate discussion? We are all part of the problem, and therefore all part of the solution.

As far as Tweeting, texting, cell phone chatter, and the like I get what you're saying, and agree by in large. I think what you need to add is the personalization of your electronic media. A conservative let's say, can now easily only have what he's set in his filters get thru to him. Ie... his home page is Drudge Report, his Yahoo daily page is only from uber-conservative media outlets, listens to conservative talk radio on his way to and from work, watches Fox News programs on TV, and at most talks to a neighbor that thinks almost identically to themselves about politics. (Typically our neighbors hold the same political beliefs by an 88% margin.)

Previous people were forced to watch NBC/CBS/ABC news that offer just news not commentary. Newspapers while maybe slightly left/right also had 35% or 40% of the opposing view published along side their favored side. A person had to at least read thru the opposing views. Radio, had a mandate that they must present a 50/50 view until it was rendered toothless under Reagan. Frankly, it needs to come back.

I honestly think with the advent of technology and various SCOTUS rulings over the past 20 years, there is only one solution left. Elections public financed. Until you get the onslaught of corporate and special interest monies out of the electoral process nothing is going to change. Nothing! Having Congress tweak a law here and there, ain't going to work. I am almost positive this has to come from a group of states getting together and enforcing their mandates that candidates must abide by their rules in order to be considered. Remember, the Constitution give states wide leeway in deciding how their Senators and House members are chosen.
 
The only thing burnt out in america right now is the sludge the republicans peddle as an agenda. The same old Bushcrap that didn't work the first time.
 
cgymike said:
Amazing how some always turn things to an attack on Republicans. The thread could have been entitled "Properties of Ketones" and still some would blame Republicans...
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Nice deflection for doing the exact thing and attacking the dems in every thread.

what is the title of the thread? have you forgotten?
 
CowboyBob said:
Tell you what. I get it. It's YOU that doesn't get it.

We're all waiting for your next Canadian Obama bashing thread. Enjoy your gay rights and government run health care.
Click to expand...

Canadian Obama bashing thread? .... now I'm confused.
 
they all sort of blend together into a chaotic partisan slugfest anyway.

lol

You could almost have an autogenerating responder.

Of course you'd sound like a few of the.....

oh

I FINALLY GET IT!!!
 
vbulletin forums have a plug in members can have with auto replies. The admin should look into it.

Besides, all this Obama bashing is rooted in one thing: prejudice.
 
I agree about that.

At the heart of this is white fear that they are losing control. I had hoped when Obama got in office and nothing really changed for them that they would move forward racially.

I guess I underestimated hate and fear.
 
CowboyBob said:
vbulletin forums have a plug in members can have with auto replies. The admin should look into it.

Besides, all this Obama bashing is rooted in one thing: prejudice.
Click to expand...

How many threads now have I asked our conservative members to please post their specific plans/ideas/solutions/proposals/etc... to help America solve her problems? A dozen? Two dozen threads? All to essentially, no avail.

They simply want "their guy", and "their team" in office. It's odd. They don't care about the policies or programs that might help them, or hurt them. They just care about their candidates "winning" for the sheer sake of "winning". It's bizarre and why I've called it the "political football team mentality". For some reason they just want to "win" even though "they" never lifted a finger, other than being an armchair political quarterback.
 
and then Kulinahr comes in and says its been posted so many times before and no one reads them.

have you guys seen these threads he's talking about? I don't want to miss out on these ideas....lol
 
thats not what I said.

IF that is what it looks like I said, quote what you think that post was and I will clarify.

I THINK what I said was that america is burnt out on the republican party.
 
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