Is the race card overplayed?

[Alpha1851]

Is Mr. Gates implying that race should be a factor in court cases? If someone does something wrong -- black, white, gay, straight -- they go to jail. Period. Should we start releasing prisoners from our jails so that the racial makeup is even and politically correct?

No, he's implying that even though white people commit crimes as well, similar crimes w/ the similar criminal records, black people are arrested more often, convicted more often, are given the maximum sentence more often, and are sent to death row more often. Actually, I thought everyone new this. Surely you don't believe the justice system is entirely blind. Wealth, power, race, social standing, education, gender, religion, and other factors all play a significant part.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

So is there no second side? Why did you ask a question you already knew the answer to?

Actually, I didn't. I was curious if my perception was too far off base. Based on the response, I'm starting to think that it wasn't.

PS: One story doesn't = empirical data. If that's the case, I could post one story of one long-term smoker that didn't get cancer and say "Smoking doesn't cause cancer."

Granted. However, the case against smoking was based on a few anecdotal cases, and then further investigation to determine if cigaratte smoking did cause cancer. The problem is that the anecdotal cases are starting to pile up, especially given the number of blog entries out there; the case for profiling is starting to get rather weak...

RG

 

[Apollo]

Come to my room and I'll show you my secret. Bring lube. And condoms.

I'll be there in five minutes!

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Actually, I didn't. I was curious if my perception was too far off base. Based on the response, I'm starting to think that it wasn't.

Girl you're good. "Curious if my perception was off base?" This has been your song and dance for months. Poor ole white man can't catch a break 'cuz he's always being accused of racism. It's cute, but you're not fooling anyone.

Granted. However, the case against smoking was based on a few anecdotal cases, and then further investigation to determine if cigaratte smoking did cause cancer. The problem is that the anecdotal cases are starting to pile up, especially given the number of blog entries out there; the case for profiling is starting to get rather weak...RG

Is the case for profiling is getting weak or did you see a few stories that confirmed what you WANTED to believe. Instead of these generalizations why not try looking up some actual numbers and statistics. We can post individual stories tit for tat all night, if you're going to discuss trends, present trends.

Hint: 2, 4, 10 blog posts don't = a trend.

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

Thank you Alpha1851 for clarifying my point. It is also to be noted that there is a direct link of poverty to crime. And, of course poverty being caused by a lack of education, opporutnity, etc.

It is also to be noted that there are more african american's on death roll.

It is actually very scary when you take a look into.

 

[Alpha1851]

There are a lot of grandiose statements in this post, yet you haven't bothered to provide facts to back them up.

I thought it was common knowledge.

Here's one link. I can't provide you w/ the Supreme Crt report. That's on Westlaw and I can't link you to it since it requires my password. I'm unable to find it on findlaw.com A good article on this subject is, "The Color of Justice: Race, Ethnicity, and Crime in America." Here's a good book.

As far as money influencing the justice system, well would you prefer to be represented by the public defender or would you prefer to hire a private atty assuming you had the means to do so? And, if you lost your case at trial, w/ money you could appeal it. You could also intimidate the opposing party by letting them know they were in for a harsh, and expensive legal battle. You could hire private investigators, could fund the best expert witnesses, could investigate the potential jurors, could hold a panel. The justice system aint cheap.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

No, he's implying that even though white people commit crimes as well, similar crimes w/ the similar criminal records, black people are arrested more often, convicted more often, are given the maximum sentence more often, and are sent to death row more often. Actually, I thought everyone new this. Surely you don't believe the justice system is entirely blind. Wealth, power, race, social standing, education, gender, religion, and other factors all play a significant part.

Prime Example: Gates, a rich person with standing in his area, was arrested for creating a public disturbance and released within hours while protesting his innocence. Something you see a lot of rich people do.

Here's the problem, however: Doing time is seen as cool, a way of establishing street cred. When they are arrested, they make it as hard on the police as possible. In preparing for court, DA's are able to convince them to accept the plea bargain even if they are innocent of the crime in question, and in court they make every attempt to act intimidating while usually relying on pro bono attorneys that are overworked and under-qualified (they're usually lawyers attempting to gain experience).

So, yeah, I get that there's a problem. How about rather than trying to figure out why it's a racial problem, someone starts looking at the black community itself and tries fixing the problems there?

 

[bankside]

Not for me it isn't. To quote Chris Rock, I don't think I should receive a job or get accepted to a school if I score lower on an efficiency test than my white counterpart. But if we receive the same score, fuck 'em . Ya'll had an unfair 400 year advantage over us, it's my time to shine now.

I, and no one I have ever known in real life, ever had any kind of 400 year advantage over anyone.

Largely this is because I have never personally met anyone older than 98.

And I'm not prepared to endure any kind of disadvantage because dead people of one colour had an advantage at the expense of dead people of another colour.


ANYway.

As for this topic, the story reads like Mr. Professor was probably lippy, and Mr. Officer was probably not sceptical. I've been pulled over by the police without reason while I was walking to school. It was pretty damned annoying. But everyone gets to put up with that regardless of colour, and you get through it with the upper hand by being cooperative, even if it is through clenched teeth. They get the message without needing to deploy any drama.

 

[Jayden]

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

So, yeah, I get that there's a problem. How about rather than trying to figure out why it's a racial problem, someone starts looking at the black community itself and tries fixing the problems there?

Thanks for the armchair commentary. We (blacks) never would've thought to fix our own problems if your graciousness hadn't come along to suggest it. I can't wait to tell all my friends!

And I'm not prepared to endure any kind of disadvantage because dead people of one colour had an advantage at the expense of dead people of another colour.

The "advantage/disadvantage" still exist in many respects. No one is pointing blame but the ad/disad.. are social, one may not choose it for oneself but neither can one denounce it because it isn't self-appointed. If society tells you you're worth more/less because of a superficial characteristic, denial doesn't make it go away, it just makes you unaware.

See above gif "Inconvenient Truth vs. Reassuring Lie."

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Girl you're good. "Curious if my perception was off base?" This has been your song and dance for months. Poor ole white man can't catch a break 'cuz he's always being accused of racism. It's cute, but you're not fooling anyone.

I actually haven't been posting in Hot Topics for the past several months. If nothing else, outside of some anti-religious threads, I really haven't been posting a lot lately (mostly due to some forced time off thanks to a move). Do all of us white people really look the same to you?

Besides that, isn't assuming that I'm posting due to racism racist in and of itself? Wanna get back to the actual topic?

Is the case for profiling is getting weak or did you see a few stories that confirmed what you WANTED to believe. Instead of these generalizations why not try looking up some actual numbers and statistics. We can post individual stories tit for tat all night, if you're going to discuss trends, present trends.

Then provide some proof for profiling. The best you're going to find is that black people get caught in areas that also happen to be high crime areas. Although I've admitted that there is some profiling, I'm really starting to debate if EVERY black man arrested is arrested because of his skin color.

Hint: 2, 4, 10 blog posts don't = a trend.

Definitely. But seeing it a lot on Cops, hearing about a lot in papers, and seeing it on television news does make it a trend. Some of us don't just rely on the internet, you know...

RG

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

The glorification of violence is in all facets of our society well beyond Rap Music. Our society glorifies violence. All you have to do is look at mainstream media. To focus in on one group of people or one genre proves that fact race is still very important to some people. The glorification of violence is in all media and all genres.

Poverty is perhaps the greatest reasons why a person commits a crime. To elimante poverty you have to decrease the high school drop out rate and increase the rention of great teachers in low income schools. Beyond that you have to make sure that all school are equal. The educational opportunities from one high school to another very dramatically even in one city much less a state or country.

High school drop out rates are highest in minority groups but also the other indicator for the rate of high school drop out rates is economic status.

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

At midyear 2008, there were 4,777 black male inmates per 100,000 black males held in state and federal prisons and local jails, compared to 1,760 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 727 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.

This statement is taken from a United States goverment website. It is not taken from Wikipedia (which any college with any kind of reputation would laugh at if you quoted, it was not from a blogger from the left or right)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

 

[Apollo]

At midyear 2008, there were 4,777 black male inmates per 100,000 black males held in state and federal prisons and local jails, compared to 1,760 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 727 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.

This statement is taken from a United States goverment website. It is not taken from Wikipedia (which any college with any kind of reputation would laugh at if you quoted, it was not from a blogger from the left or right)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

And this proves????

 

[bounder]

Then provide some proof for profiling. The best you're going to find is that black people get caught in areas that also happen to be high crime areas. Although I've admitted that there is some profiling, I'm really starting to debate if EVERY black man arrested is arrested because of his skin color.

You just posted a story about a guy getting arrested in a relatively tame environment...on the porch of his own house...in the middle of the day...right after he proved he lived there.

 

[Apollo]

Yoda was totally a black man.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TKeC6t2fCw[/ame]

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

Apollo it seems rather clear to me that if there is 4,777 black men in person compared to 727 white men in prison there is a problem.

That is a huge difference. Something is very much wrong.

 

[Apollo]

You just posted a story about a guy getting arrested in a relatively tame environment...on the porch of his own house...in the middle of the day...right after he proved he lived there.

Relatively tame? That shit couldn't get anymore tame than a rich suburb on the Harvard campus.

 

[Apollo]

Apollo it seems rather clear to me that if there is 4,777 black men in person compared to 727 white men in prison there is a problem.

That is a huge difference. Something is very much wrong.

White men are less prone to do crime, or less prone to get caught or prosecuted?

 

[Alpha1851]

So, yeah, I get that there's a problem. How about rather than trying to figure out why it's a racial problem, someone starts looking at the black community itself and tries fixing the problems there?

Is it that black people are guilty of committing more crimes, or is it that they're just more likely to be punished for them? I don't think more black folks are committing crimes than the rest of us. By sheer numbers, it's logical that more white folks are committing crimes since there's a ton more of us. Maybe instead of looking at why the black community seems to have issues, we should look at society as a whole to ascertain what's going on.

To act like there's no bias in the judicial system is absurd. For example, consider teachers who have sex w/ their underage student. When a male teacher did it, he went to prison for a long time. He was labeled as a child molester and monster. When a female teacher did it, she lost her teaching license and was put on probation. She was thought to be a confused woman. How many women compared to men sit on death row. Compare the women who received life sentences for committing similar crimes in the same state as the men who received the death penalty.