Islam: Rape Of Male Children As Told By A Survivor

[zoltanspawn]

Islam is a big complicated religion.

This premise requires more than many are willing to give.

 

[bankside]

So, if the argument is that it's good when a religion forgets its crazy roots, I wholeheartedly agree. But I think it's best to move past it altogether when it plainly conflicts with being decent to one another…or, say, a child...

 

[pat grimshaw]

…I saw an article about an Islamic book being sold that detailed the best ways to beat and control your wife.…

 

[Telstra]

He looks like Bin laden's uncle or brother ....
Clearly man made primitive laws treated as laws from god.

 

[KaraBulut]

Rick Santorum in drag.

Worse, actually.

This is Wahhabism- one of the most fundamental and conservative sects of Islam.

They would pretty much be considered a bunch of crazy, uneducated people in the desert (kind of like the FLDS* in the US) except that they're funded and underwritten by the Saudi royal family.

Everytime you fill up that tank, you're indirectly tithing to these guys. It's Saudi oil money that is funding these guys and their madrasahs... and their backward, barbaric view of the world.

*If you don't know who the FLDS are, they're a wealthy offshoot of the Mormon faith who has some pretty interesting beliefs about polygamy and teenage "sister-wives".

 

[freefall]

^It is even criticised by other Muslim movements as 'controversial' and, worse, 'heretic'. I don't know what else to say

Islam is going through the same thing that Christianity went through in the Middle Ages. There are too many people who are too poor who are being led by imams who have memorized the Qur'an but don't seem to understand what they memorized.

At a time when the moderates and the educated clergy in Islam need support and encouragement, they're being castigated just because they're in the same religion as some pretty stupid people.

This pretty much sums the problem

The Koran, likewise other tomes, are lid with words that can be easily misinterpreted. Thus the function of a leader in religious groups, who, suppose is also wrongly driven and misinterprets the whole idea, can cause grim ramifications.

Although I seriously question the functions of graphic explanations of punishments within the tomes...a Christian teacher who taught me years ago (who is a good one and doesn't judge people by their religion) explained that the regulations and sanctions described in detail in the Old Testament was 'dismissed' and 'modified' by the New Testament; thus it shall be like Kuli's note:

There's something I love about Lutheran teaching: it emphasizes that every accusation the Bible makes applies to the reader. The Law is never to be used to accuse others, unless it is egregious public sin; it's always to be use to accuse one's own self, to ask, "How have I done this?"

In a church where that's applied consistently, it gets really hard to make it "the other guy" with the problem, because even if he does have one, the reflex is to turn the accusation first at yourself.

Too bad Martin Luther didn't become pope and fix the Roman Church, huh?

Hence any repetitions of the sanctions accordingly to the Old Testament in the new era is considered inappropriate.

I remember my Muslim friends said something about the same thing happening in Muslim, but it is usually very diverse and various, depending on the movement. Often enough, two different Muslim movements take very opposite view onto one subject and then start to demean each other.

Who knows even within a religion there could be weird conflicts.

 

[Telstra]

^It is even criticised by other Muslim movements as 'controversial' and, worse, 'heretic'. I don't know what else to say



This pretty much sums the problem

The Koran, likewise other tomes, are lid with words that can be easily misinterpreted. Thus the function of a leader in religious groups, who, suppose is also wrongly driven and misinterprets the whole idea, can cause grim ramifications.

Although I seriously question the functions of graphic explanations of punishments within the tomes...a Christian teacher who taught me years ago (who is a good one and doesn't judge people by their religion) explained that the regulations and sanctions described in detail in the Old Testament was 'dismissed' and 'modified' by the New Testament; thus it shall be like Kuli's note:



Hence any repetitions of the sanctions accordingly to the Old Testament in the new era is considered inappropriate.

I remember my Muslim friends said something about the same thing happening in Muslim, but it is usually very diverse and various, depending on the movement. Often enough, two different Muslim movements take very opposite view onto one subject and then start to demean each other.

Who knows even within a religion there could be weird conflicts.

That is why Hitchens, was right.
Religions poisons everything. He meant everything.

 

[Kulindahr]

That is why Hitchens, was right.
Religions poisons everything. He meant everything.

Please explain how love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, generosity, mercy, and a desire for justice "poison" things.

 

[bankside]

Please explain how love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, generosity, mercy, and a desire for justice "poison" things.

No no no. He said religion…

And that's not just a smartarsed response…not one of those things requires a metaphysical claim to make it worthwhile; indeed the idea that any of them depends on divinity does seem to cheapen them.

 

[Kulindahr]

No no no. He said religion…

And that's not just a smartarsed response…not one of those things requires a metaphysical claim to make it worthwhile; indeed the idea that any of them depends on divinity does seem to cheapen them.

Nice dodge.

Those are a chunk what Christianity is actually about. It isn't relevant if they happen to be advocated elsewhere.

 

[bankside]

Nice dodge.

Those are a chunk what Christianity is actually about. It isn't relevant if they happen to be advocated elsewhere.

It very much is relevant. And christianity is about the idea that all of those qualities have a divine origin. Hitchens suggests this debases them, makes them arbitrary or subject to divine repeal, and he makes the point persuasively.

Christianity even implicitly concedes this point; a set of very patently odious divine values were repealed, weren't they, around the time of jesus?

Hitchens points out that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, generosity, mercy, and a desire for justice, are poisoned by the notion that they would be meaningless without god.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Abdellah Taïa, the subject of the OP has videos in the French language and others promoting the sale of his memoirs.

He's able to tell his tale to gain publicity in the US but there are obviously thousands of gay men and gay acts being done and persecuted which we don't hear about.

 

[Kulindahr]

It very much is relevant. And christianity is about the idea that all of those qualities have a divine origin. Hitchens suggests this debases them, makes them arbitrary or subject to divine repeal, and he makes the point persuasively.

Christianity even implicitly concedes this point; a set of very patently odious divine values were repealed, weren't they, around the time of jesus?

Hitchens points out that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, generosity, mercy, and a desire for justice, are poisoned by the notion that they would be meaningless without god.

So because Hitchens invents a straw man, those qualities are poisonous?

 

[AngolaZee]

When I first read this thread I was tempted to come out swinging in defense of Islam as I felt that the original poster was unfairly blaming Islam for the abuse of little boys. I am sure there is nowhere in Quran where old men are instructed to help themselves to little boys. But the real question is does the Koran explicitly forbid sodomy/homosexuality? This is relevant because acts of abuse in any country should be subject to the laws of that country however because in most Muslim countries Sharia law is THE law which supposedly derives from the Quran. So in order to determine whether Islam encourages the raping of little boys and the abuse of woman one has to examine if the Quran specifically addresses these two issues (sodomy and domestic abuse).


Unlike in the Western world where the civil and criminal law does not necessarily derive from religion but derives from individual rights, in Islam they may be some grey areas where people have decided to intepret passages in the Quran as they please and if the Quran is silent on sodomy and domestic abuse then the inference is that it is okay to sodomise little boys. This is what happen when the law of the land is intertwined with religion and culture. The issue here should not be about Islam but about the the lack of support (legal or religious) for individual rights.

For example if as a Muslim child I am molested and I approach my parents and tell them I have been molested . The question then surely should be have I been wronged based on what the Quran teaches or not. Surely if the Quran forbids it then it should be punishable and the perpetrators should know even beforehand that the Quran forbids what they are doing. However if the Quran does not specifically forbid sodomy and domestic abuse than it would be fair to link Islam to the abuse of little boys.

Teh important point here is that unlike in Western countries, in Muslim countries the law is derived from the religion

 

[pat grimshaw]

This is nigeria

 

[Kulindahr]

This is nigeria

Informative. But how does it relate to the topic?

 

[pat grimshaw]

Informative. But how does it relate to the topic?

Well I was actually trying to find something relevant to Morocco or Angola (post #68) and get away from the intellectual theorising of posts #60 to 64).

You people are intellectualising while people are being killed in africa and the middle east

 

[Rusty Crown]

The Islamaphobes never miss a chance to slander 1 billion people. So shameful.

Have you seen this verse before?:
An-nisa النساء 4:34 "As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them, leave them alone in beds and beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, Allah is most high and great."

 

[bankside]

So because Hitchens invents a straw man, those qualities are poisonous?

Those qualities are delightful. They are in no way christian things; their covariance with christianity is zero; none of them is a synonym for christianity. This is the point of contention, and no one has argued they are bad qualities. Only the notion that they are good qualities because some sort of god said so.

You can fill churches with messages of love, joy and peace, and those things would no more belong to christianity than the air filling the church - which is to say, not at all. Christianity may have made better or worse use of those virtues depending on the sect and the habits of the person tending the flock. But when I build my house of wood, I am using something that is not of my house. I can't claim to have become the source of the wood and the tree itself….

 

[Rusty Crown]

God! Damnit!

Yeah! And they counted me among those while I'm atheist.