Last U.S. Manufacturer of Lethal Injection Drug Ends Production

[bankside]

Interesting statistic:

of all the criminals who go to prison/jail and get out, the two least likely to re-offend are murderers and rapists.

Another:

of all crimes where people are wrongly convicted, murder and rape are at the top of the list.

I wonder two things: if you are in jail for life due to the serious nature of your crime, doesn't that automatically lower the odds of reoffending by simply reducing the opportunity?

And, wrongful conviction is surely underreported in less serious crimes because people have a relatively less pressing need to clear their names.

??

How did you get that out of a gulag-style work camp?

in this:

Um maybe I'm confused. Wait, do you mean we should just not pay them the salary and so on? Forced labour? It would certainly up the rate of return on oilsands investment, but the silly United Nations would probably object to forced labour.

BTW, you know people don't make their homes on production sites right? It would be like trying to argue that a deep sea oil rig is someone's permanent address....no, they actually live in nice but highly overpriced homes which they can easily afford, whilst their children earn $18 an hour plus benefits working at fast food restaurants because of the crazy demand. Often the home is not in Fort McMurray itself, but in Edmonton or even Vancouver, and they just fly back and forth or drive up when they're on shift, crashing at a crowded Fort Mac apartment building. Though you can live very well in teh Mac itself if you want to.

 

[BostonPirate]

I did some reading on recidivism of murderers and rapists.

They are lower in the states that have the death penalty, but not much different in other places.

I am not arguing for the death penalty... You just have to remember that dead men commit no crimes. They also have no chance at redemption.

 

[Kulindahr]

I wonder two things: if you are in jail for life due to the serious nature of your crime, doesn't that automatically lower the odds of reoffending by simply reducing the opportunity?

People ending up in jail for a single crime is rare; usually it's because of repeats, but yes. I tried to figure out what the rates would look like if people who finally ended up ion for life were excluded, but after it finally occurred to me that the point would be useless because there's no way to tell ahead of time, I gave it up.

And, wrongful conviction is surely underreported in less serious crimes because people have a relatively less pressing need to clear their names.

Probably -- and because in so many lesser crimes, it's people who can't afford a lawyer to actually fight the issue. A local paper did a study that concluded that something on the order of one in eight convictions (by crime, not be person) was false, just because people can't afford to fight, so they plead "No Contest" -- but for sex offenses, they found one in five , but people didn't fight because if you just take your time quietly and do probation, you can hang onto a life, but if you're in the papers due to a trial, your life is gone.

Messed-up system.

Um maybe I'm confused. Wait, do you mean we should just not pay them the salary and so on? Forced labour? It would certainly up the rate of return on oilsands investment, but the silly United Nations would probably object to forced labour.

Oh, the salary would get paid -- to a Victims' Compensation Fund, ER Crime Victims' Fund, etc. But the worker would only get enough to pay his upkeep.

BTW, you know people don't make their homes on production sites right? It would be like trying to argue that a deep sea oil rig is someone's permanent address....no, they actually live in nice but highly overpriced homes which they can easily afford, whilst their children earn $18 an hour plus benefits working at fast food restaurants because of the crazy demand. Often the home is not in Fort McMurray itself, but in Edmonton or even Vancouver, and they just fly back and forth or drive up when they're on shift, crashing at a crowded Fort Mac apartment building. Though you can live very well in teh Mac itself if you want to.

But these workers wouldn't have a home life -- this is prison, just relocated. They'd have a compound right there where if an emergency force was needed, they could be rolled out in minutes.

 

[Kulindahr]

I did some reading on recidivism of murderers and rapists.

They are lower in the states that have the death penalty, but not much different in other places.

I am not arguing for the death penalty... You just have to remember that dead men commit no crimes. They also have no chance at redemption.

I don't recall the difference being statistically significant. It isn't in places where "shall issue" is the rule for concealed carry, either -- except the rate of capital punishment is slightly higher, in the sense that citizens take care of that themselves more often when attacked.

Comes with being crimes of passion: not much incentive to re-offend, not much deterrence if you do.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Probably -- and because in so many lesser crimes, it's people who can't afford a lawyer to actually fight the issue. A local paper did a study that concluded that something on the order of one in eight convictions (by crime, not be person) was false, just because people can't afford to fight, so they plead "No Contest" -- but for sex offenses, they found one in five , but people didn't fight because if you just take your time quietly and do probation, you can hang onto a life, but if you're in the papers due to a trial, your life is gone.

It gets worse for minority "offenders", as not only are they encouraged from the get-go to for the plea bargain, but jail time is something that they brag about later.

Messed-up system.

Yeah, but it does get better year after year. It may not seem that way, but it does. It just needs a serious watchdog or three. Of course, I still want to see some reforms in the public defender system....

But these workers wouldn't have a home life -- this is prison, just relocated. They'd have a compound right there where if an emergency force was needed, they could be rolled out in minutes.

Just to expound on his point if you think it's a paradise: The gulags were some of the worst forced labor camps in history, with the prisoners worked to the bone, with limited food in the best of times, and death more likely due to hypothermia and starvation...

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Of course, we could always do this:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84phU8of02U[/ame]

RG

 

[frankfrank]

Interesting statistic:

of all the criminals who go to prison/jail and get out, the two least likely to re-offend are murderers and rapists.

Another:

of all crimes where people are wrongly convicted, murder and rape are at the top of the list.

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I'm not sure whether I have trouble believing that for murder or not, but I definitely think it's true of rape. It's well known that one can really fuck somebody else's life up if they go after a rape charge, and it doesn't seem like as much evidence is needed as in other crimes. If the sex is entirely consensual, and there's DNA proving there was sex, one party can scream "RAPE!" and the DNA evidence will be the same.

There are always people who, much later, say "Oh, sorry - he didn't rape me after all - I lied" and the person still spends the rest of his life in prison. I seem to hear stories like this all the time.

Then there's the thing about implanted "memories" in children, etc.

 

[bankside]

Oh, the salary would get paid -- to a Victims' Compensation Fund, ER Crime Victims' Fund, etc. But the worker would only get enough to pay his upkeep.

But these workers wouldn't have a home life -- this is prison, just relocated. They'd have a compound right there where if an emergency force was needed, they could be rolled out in minutes.

Ahh. Got it - it took me a while to see how rewarding someone with a lucrative career constituted a form of punishment. Umm. Sure. Or maybe you could send them to Silicon Valley and force them to work for tech companies?

 

[Kulindahr]

Ahh. Got it - it took me a while to see how rewarding someone with a lucrative career constituted a form of punishment. Umm. Sure. Or maybe you could send them to Silicon Valley and force them to work for tech companies?

Heh. Not dirty and nasty enough.

But shipping them to Australia to clean up after floods would qualify.

 

[bankside]

Heh. Not dirty and nasty enough.

Downtown Fort McMurray, centre of the Oilsands. I know. It looks terrible, doesn't it?

But shipping them to Australia to clean up after floods would qualify.

Australia on the other hand has snakes, sharks swimming through people's yards, and killer kangaroos. Deadly. Marsupials. Send them there!


Wait, didn't.....we....try that before??? And where are the aussies supposed to send their criminals?

 

[Kulindahr]

Australia on the other hand has snakes, sharks swimming through people's yards, and killer kangaroos. Deadly. Marsupials. Send them there!


Wait, didn't.....we....try that before??? And where are the aussies supposed to send their criminals?

Georgia?

 

[Michiko]

They'll just hire a chemist and synthesize it in situ, I guess. That's what we do here when there's a shortage of a chemical

 

[Kulindahr]

They'll just hire a chemist and synthesize it in situ, I guess. That's what we do here when there's a shortage of a chemical

I think the law generally forbids that.

 

[frankfrank]

Georgia?

Which one?

 

[Kulindahr]

Which one?

The one where they speaka da langwidj.