Libya, Bradley Manning and Human Rights

[EastMed]

President Obama rightly condemned Libya for its outrageous attacks on protesters against the regime, and that it would stand up for for human rights and human dignity. Except..... well, see here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/mar/05/torture-obama-administration

Bradley Manning is now being stripped of his personality, his identity and his dignity, (because this is what psychological torture does most efficiently), to be presented at some future date in court as a quivering mess admitting to any charges made against him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...mar/04/bradley-manning-us-wikileaks-hypocrisy

There is no justice in this world. Just hypocrisy.

 

[kallipolis]

^This is a sad reflection on the United States military justice system.

This is torture, motivated by revenge.

 

[Corny]

an accused criminal sitting in jail awaiting trail?

that wouldn't be a problem.

what a weird and horrible concept. god damn that war criminal Obama for lawfully detaining someone who stole classified information from the military.

the problem is that the only lawful thing that is being done here is that he is being detained.

did you actually read a bit about what has been and is being done to him? he'd be very happy if he were just in detention.

 

[IllgetyouHackman]

Though I may not agree with the tactics, he is an enemy of the state. Get over it, if the kid is so smart he should have not given an oath to defend the United States and then reveal military secrets. I don't hear you guys weeping for the Rosenbergs.

 

[Corny]

Though I may not agree with the tactics, he is an enemy of the state.

Either you grant human rights to everyone or you abolish them immediately.

Otherwise you are just another sad hypocrite as the US is right now.

Bad Gaddafi not respecting human rights, eh? Mind that by his logic the protesters are also enemies of the state.

 

[ThreeCrows]

an accused criminal sitting in jail awaiting trail? what a weird and horrible concept. god damn that war criminal Obama for lawfully detaining someone who stole classified information from the military.

He is not just "sitting in jail" or being "detained."
Read up, get informed on what is going on with this guy.

 

[laikaNYC]

Awwww, poor Bradley Manning, I guess this weasel should of thought twice about stealing classified documents.

Who knows how many have been killed because of him and his Wikileaks friends.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... I don't hear you guys weeping for the Rosenbergs.

Did you not hear my bitter tears!

I gained some equanimity after five years.

Bitter tears turn rancid over time.

 

[Lostlover]

The little punk's lawyer says something and it's the gospel. All these international people get one side of the story and they conclude it must be true.

American government, if I ever steal your shit and give it to foreigners, you can strip me naked and do whatever you're doing to Manning.

If there's a god, I pray to him that military prosecutors haven't taken the death penalty away from this lipless punk.

 

[levenshulme31]

How is it so difficult for you to see that condemning the likes of Gaddaffi for human rights abuses whilst engaging in human rights abuses is hypocritical.

Whatever your opinion of Bradley Manning, to date he has been convicted of nothing and should be afforded the due process and associated human rights as anyone else. Detaining him in conditions which are likely to have a detrimental affect on his mental health does nothing to protect the reputation of the USA.

I assume that he no longer has the farcically easy access to reams of alleged state secrets which he is accused of passing to (Nobel Peace Prize Nominee) Wikileaks, he is in no position to repeat any offence he may or may not have committed.

 

[BostonPirate]

If he's an active member of the armed forces, he surrendered his civil rights when he signed up. He was given security clearance, and did NOT prove to be trustworthy.

American intelligence officers were put in harms way by his actions. Due to our wounded ability to get info now, it wont be as easy to stop terrorist attacks. He put children across the nation at risk.

He has now been charged with the BIG ENCHILLADA.... aiding the enemy. That gets you the noose in any military.

He accepted these conditions and terms when he signed up, and now that he actually DID break the law, he thinks he is above it.

Until the military kicks him out, he is theirs.

It takes three judges for a military tribunal, I believe, and if three men agree that he engaged in treasonous behavior, he WILL be hanged.

 

[justapixel]

It takes three judges for a military tribunal, I believe, and if three men agree that he engaged in treasonous behavior, he WILL be hanged.

Again, you have no knowledge of Bradley Manning and the death penalty.

The coward Obama has ruled out the death penalty for Manning.

The U.S. military has charged alleged WikiLeaks collaborator Pfc. Bradley Manning with 22 new crimes, including one — "aiding the enemy" — that could earn him the death penalty. Though prosecutors are not recommending execution for Manning

http://theweek.com/article/index/212797/does-bradley-manning-deserve-the-death-penalty

Obama has the ability to overrule the recommendation. He has failed to do so.

BostonPirate, please research before posting.

 

[Lostlover]

How is it so difficult for you to see that condemning the likes of Gaddaffi for human rights abuses whilst engaging in human rights abuses is hypocritical.

Whatever your opinion of Bradley Manning, to date he has been convicted of nothing and should be afforded the due process and associated human rights as anyone else. Detaining him in conditions which are likely to have a detrimental affect on his mental health does nothing to protect the reputation of the USA.

I assume that he no longer has the farcically easy access to reams of alleged state secrets which he is accused of passing to (Nobel Peace Prize Nominee) Wikileaks, he is in no position to repeat any offence he may or may not have committed.

Your source of his treatment is his lawyer. They just need one side's account in Manchester before making premature assessments?

Secondly, comparing a dictator shelling protesters to the detainment of someone on suicide watch is bullshit. People on suicide watch have severe limitations that aren't placed on the general prison population.

This is another one of those foreigners that gets one side of the story and that's good enough.

 

[BostonPirate]

Again, you have no knowledge of Bradley Manning and the death penalty.

The coward Obama has ruled out the death penalty for Manning.



http://theweek.com/article/index/212797/does-bradley-manning-deserve-the-death-penalty

Obama has the ability to overrule the recommendation. He has failed to do so.

BostonPirate, please research before posting.

First... HA... read your own post...

Obama has ruled out the death penalty for Manning.

and

Obama has the ability to overrule the recommendation. He has failed to do so

do you see a problem with these two sentences?

next

why don't you read the first paragraph of your article champ

The U.S. military has charged alleged WikiLeaks collaborator Pfc. Bradley Manning with 22 new crimes, including one — "aiding the enemy" — that could earn him the death penalty. Though prosecutors are not recommending execution for Manning, a former intelligence analyst accused of leaking classified U.S. documents to the WikiLeaks website, the military judge presiding over the case will make the final decision.

why don't you read your own citation before arguing its points? It would help you a whole lot. I do admire the fact that you are becoming more conversant and explaining your positions.

I just wish you understood what you were reading when you link to them.

Ok...

Do you want the guy executed before he has a trial?

( lets be nice and fill in this blank with NO for pixie)

Ok, so he has to be proven guilty before a punishment can be decided, and the court WILL consider all of its options.

I don't know if the guy deserves the death penalty or not, but one thing for sure... He is going to get a trial and it will be considered.

How can anyone advocate for anything differently?

 

[kallipolis]

Your source of his treatment is his lawyer. They just need one side's account in Manchester before making premature assessments?

Secondly, comparing a dictator shelling protesters to the detainment of someone on suicide watch is bullshit. People on suicide watch have severe limitations that aren't placed on the general prison population.

This is another one of those foreigners that gets one side of the story and that's good enough.

Bradley Manning's lawyer is an American. Not a foreigner. I have no reason to believe that Manning's lawyer is lying about his client's circumstances. The military authorities have not disputed the lawyer's observations and comments.

This soldier is still awaiting trial. He remains innocent until proven otherwise.

A mental health breakdown may well be the objective of the prison authorities, so as to avoid a full and complete military court martial, and thus avoiding some embarrassing revelations on poor, to virtually non existence security on the United States military's communication network. I gather that changes have been effected to that system to ensure that the security holes have been plugged.

Manning did the United States a great service. Just imagine what could have happened had Chinese, or Russian intelligence agents managed to enter the military's communication system with such ease. And to think that this ordinary soldier was also able to read the State Department's secret files, via the military communications network.

 

[bankside]

Corny is right; detain him, try him and sentence him. Torture and petty revenge should be beneath the dignity of a democratic government of free people.

And it is funny how "the international people" are all supposedly ganging up here. This is another example of the black-and-white all-or-nothing nonsense that it would be fair to say comes out of the mouths of Americans far too often.

Life has nuances: we can point out the failings of one aspect of a political and legal system without needing to endure accusations of wanting the destruction of the whole country or whatever.

Americans, those of you who can see more than one side of an issue, how do you put up with it? It has been my experience that your country produces more people with blinkered, polarised viewpoints than other countries. How do you put up with it?

 

[BostonPirate]

Corny is right; detain him, try him and sentence him. Torture and petty revenge should be beneath the dignity of a democratic government of free people.

And it is funny how "the international people" are all supposedly ganging up here. This is another example of the black-and-white all-or-nothing nonsense that it would be fair to say comes out of the mouths of Americans far too often.

Life has nuances: we can point out the failings of one aspect of a political and legal system without needing to endure accusations of wanting the destruction of the whole country or whatever.

Americans, those of you who can see more than one side of an issue, how do you put up with it? It has been my experience that your country produces more people with blinkered, polarised viewpoints than other countries. How do you put up with it?

has the torture been documented by anyone other than his defense attorney? Are we saying that jail should be comfy and cozy? Its not even jail, He's in a military brig.

He knew what he was doing when he signed up for military service, and he damned well knew what he was doing when he was stealing those documents. Now he wants to avoid the repercussions of his actions.

Jail is not a nice place on purpose. It tends to make people want to not be there.

IS what happened torture? Doubtful. Were his civil rights violated? he signed those away when he agreed to be part of the army and Obey the chain of command first and foremost.

I think Bush made this very complicated when he decided to torture people, and now the country will be watched by the world indefinitely because we have proven that presidents who torture are above the law.

 

[Kulindahr]

^This is a sad reflection on the United States military justice system.

This is torture, motivated by revenge.

^ This.

Innocent until proven guilty applies in the military. They're treating him worse than someone already convicted.

Suicide watch may be an excuse, but it's a lie: what they're doing is more likely to make a non-suicidal person suicidal than anything. This kind of isolation and humiliation on top of a suicidal mentality have but one function: to totally break the individual. This may as well be communist Rumania, breaking prisoners so they'll speak as programmed at the trial.

Obama should order those who've made the decisions to treat Manning this way dismissed from the service, dishonorably, with no pensions. He should order Manning transferred to conditions designed to make him want to live, not humiliate and break him.

And then at trial, if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that information Manning handed over led to the deaths of anyone, hang him.

 

[Lostlover]

Corny is right; detain him, try him and sentence him. Torture and petty revenge should be beneath the dignity of a democratic government of free people.

No, ^^^ that's what his lawyer says. I'm not aware of the military giving its side of the story. But I do know that people on suicide watch are deprived of certain benefits. Clothes might be one.

And it is funny how "the international people" are all supposedly ganging up here. This is another example of the black-and-white all-or-nothing nonsense that it would be fair to say comes out of the mouths of Americans far too often.

Life has nuances: we can point out the failings of one aspect of a political and legal system without needing to endure accusations of wanting the destruction of the whole country or whatever.

No, the international people only have one side of the story and they're leaping to judgements. You don't need to be in law enforcement to know that people on suicide watch are treated differently for their own safety.

One of those Nordic countries just had a public outcry over a teenage inmate being tied to the wall. The child had several mental conditions and was a threat to the facility's workings who had to work with him. Yet no one called that torture. Sure people were shocked, most likely due to the ignorance people have of those with psych issues, but I never remembered anyone calling it torture. Or comparing it to Gaddafi bombing civilians.

Americans, those of you who can see more than one side of an issue, how do you put up with it? It has been my experience that your country produces more people with blinkered, polarised viewpoints than other countries. How do you put up with it?

In Greece actions might not have consequences, but in America they do. One teenager here was killed as he went in to do a home invasion. His family was wailing on the news over his death. Sure, a robber doesn't deserve to die, but don't bitch to me that you don't like the consequences. Actions have consequences, even if they're disproportional to the crime.

Manning's consequences are yet to come. He threw away his life to a graying narcisstic weirdo.

 

[kallipolis]

^Manning remains innocent until proven otherwise.

Manning's lawyer is an American who has no reason to lie about the conditions under which Manning is being held.

Justice must be seen to be done. This includes humane treatment of a prisoner awaiting trial.

Psychological torture of a prisoner remanded awaiting trial is in direct opposition to the values that the United States broadcasts to the world.