Maine People's Veto, will it pass or fail?

[NickCole]

Thanks Barack Obama, once again, for doing nothing.

 

[NickCole]

It's my favorite thing in the world, when the Republicans cause a gay rights measure to lose and they immediately blame Obama.

Classic pass the buck bullshit. Where are the GOP members in this fight?

You don't get it.

Republicans never promised to help, never promised to repeal DADT or DOMA, never claimed to be our fierce advocate.

ObamaNation just doesn't get it and it's screwing up our best opportunity.

 

[Kulindahr]

I am not convinced that all Seniors can be convinced, in the great numbers that need to happen. Of any age bracket, this is the least likely age bracket to want to be educated, as they are completely set in their ways ... and feel that life is pretty much all figured out .... Heaven and Hell, and all that.


Nope. Time spent waiting for graves to fill up is the only realistic thing that will allow for change. Time and patience, along with allowing the education system to do its part for the future generations.

No amount of motivating, convincing, or any of that other stuff will work. We have seen it time and time again. There are simply entirely too many Seniors with Religious views compared to people that can actually be "convinced" or "motivated".

Just like the Seniors will never relinquish their bigoted Religious views.

Time, Patience, Education, and Death are the only solutions to this.

The Seniors and religious influence on them are to blame. And they aren't changing either.


The reality of the matter is morbid, but is the truth. Religious Seniors need to die and result in Generational Turnover before Gay Marriage will be a realistic possibility.

This is the same ageist dreck LostLover used to post. Plenty of statistics were posted to show him his errors, but he wouldn't budge.

You pin religion and bigotry on age, when they span age. Religious bigots of all ages vote against us, and that's a stronger determinant than just age.

Responding with the bigotry LL, and now you, are throwing out, is not an answer.

Not even Obama will change Religious views. I have seen and understand the effects religion has on others. Just because the president may say one thing, that is not enough to change the mind of someone who is bound by faith to the Bible.

Who cares about Obama?

My mind is "bound by faith to the Bible". Let me deal with the ignorant folks who think theirs are, but who are really bound to prejudice. You get out there and deal with young people who claim to care, but don't.

If your advice on strategy for fighting on behalf of gay rights is "Sit on your ass and let graves fill up", then get out of the way, and do what I tell Nick in my next post.....

 

[Kulindahr]

Thanks Barack Obama, once again, for doing nothing.

Nick, shut it already.

 

[hotatlboi]

Republicans never promised to help

Neither did Obama on the gay marriage issue. He's been against gay marriage since he started his campaign. So by your own logic Obama is not primarily at fault here.

Except that would violate your overarching principle that it's Obama's fault for everything, and that every thread must be turned into an opportunity to bash Obama. You're like a broken record, and in this case it's also the application of your own logic that's broken.

 

[NickCole]

I pretty much have to agree with this. In Maine you had every opportunity for intelligent people to choose equality. You had a state we were told was "fiercely independent" and where the voters would make up their minds on the merits of the argument and not on propaganda. You had a well run campaign by the No on 1 folks who put in a lot of hard work, they had way more money raised, you had the principled governor who wised up and made the right choice and challenged people to rethink their prejudices, etc. But still it didn't matter. The older religious bigots are simply too many.

And the ObamaNation foolishness continues.

The problem is NOT older people or religious bigots.

The problem is NOT our opponents who get out to vote.

The problem is that tens of thousands of gays and same sex marriage supporters went to DC for a party a few weeks ago rather than going to Maine to fight for our rights. And Obama, our "fierce advocate" did even less.

The problem is NOT that same sex opponents vote. The problem is that not enough same sex supporters DO vote. And who's fault is that?

This is our best opportunity. Five or ten years of this is going to weaken our chances further, not strenghten them.

 

[hotatlboi]

The problem is that tens of thousands of gays and same sex marriage supporters went to DC for a party

Um, no. They went to fight for our rights. Huge difference.

Five or ten years of this is going to weaken our chances further, not strenghten them.

That statement right there proves to me how incredibly blind you are on this whole issue.

Our hand will be much stronger in 10 years, just as it is now compared to 10 years ago.

 

[NickCole]

Um, no. They went to fight for our rights. Huge difference.

The battleground was in Maine. That's where Maine keeps its voters.

But of course Lady GaGa was in DC.

Everybody knows if you're going to fight a battle, go where the celebrities are, not where the opposition is waging war against you.

That statement right there proves to me how incredibly blind you are on this whole issue.

Our hand will be much stronger in 10 years, just as it is now compared to 10 years ago.

I'd love to know the evidence that leads you to this concluson. Please share.

 

[Kulindahr]

Neither did Obama on the gay marriage issue. He's been against gay marriage since he started his campaign. So by your own logic Obama is not primarily at fault here.

Bingo: they were fools to even ask for help from him. He knows that one can be for gay equality without supporting gay marriage initiatives; they don't get that.

Obama is not even on the 'scope as far as being at fault.

 

[NickCole]

Bingo: they were fools to even ask for help from him. He knows that one can be for gay equality without supporting gay marriage initiatives; they don't get that.

Obama is not even on the 'scope as far as being at fault.

When we needed his help with Prop 8 the excuse was Obama would lose the election if he stood with us, but once elected he'd be there.

Now, a year after being elected, our "fierce advocate" still is not helping. And we're still losing. And some gays still protect and defend him.

There's plenty of blame to go around for these squandered opportunities.

 

[hotatlboi]

I'd love to know the evidence that leads you to this concluson. Please share.

Um, I posted it a few posts back in this thread, had you bothered to look.

Or you could look at any time based polling trend on the issue.

 

[NickCole]

We have a President who told us he'd be our fierce advocate and he hasn't lifted a finger to help. That's bullshit and he should be called on it.

 

[NickCole]

Um, I posted it a few posts back in this thread, had you bothered to look.

Or you could look at any time based polling trend on the issue.

If you don't want to answer my question, then tell me by number which post you're referring to.

 

[MystikWizard]

This is the same ageist dreck LostLover used to post. Plenty of statistics were posted to show him his errors, but he wouldn't budge.

You pin religion and bigotry on age, when they span age. Religious bigots of all ages vote against us, and that's a stronger determinant than just age.

Responding with the bigotry LL, and now you, are throwing out, is not an answer.

It is an answer. It's simply not the answer you want to hear.

The people who are mostly religious in terms of age are Seniors. Are you going to dispute that one, Kuli?

The older you are, the more set in your ways you become. Why? Because of arrogance.

The mentality is "I've been on this world for 75, 80, 90 years. There is no way I am wrong on belief in God and The Bible given how long I've been here on this Earth. Society is simply losing it's morals and becoming Godless sinners. Let them go to Hell. I'll have a nice spot in Heaven, thank you very much."

There is no breaking through to them, Kuli. None. The sooner one accepts it, the less frustrating it becomes.

Who cares about Obama?

I agree. LMAO at NickCole thinking that Obama's opinion matters-- especially amongst Seniors, the Age Demographic who mostly despises the president anyway.

Obama can go out and preach all he wants. The bottom line is that people are bound by religion and Obama is not God.

When you are religious and you take the Bible quite literally, there is nothing that is going to convince you otherwise. Nothing. These people are brainwashed, and that is the end of it.

My mind is "bound by faith to the Bible". Let me deal with the ignorant folks who think theirs are, but who are really bound to prejudice. You get out there and deal with young people who claim to care, but don't.

This is a natural process, Kuli. If you aren't Gay, then you typically have apathy and aren't affected by it. It's human nature and there really is no cure for apathy, especially when one gets older and more set in their ways.

The key is education for the youth coming in, for when they are older and mature enough to take an interest in voting, at least the majority of their belief systems will be set to Pro Gay Rights when they do decide it's time to start voting.

If your advice on strategy for fighting on behalf of gay rights is "Sit on your ass and let graves fill up", then get out of the way, and do what I tell Nick in my next post.....

That's called Reality, Kuli. And I'll prove my point.

You think Seniors can be convinced and persuaded to go against their Bibles and "the definitive word of God", after living on Earth as long as they have and suddenly change their views on Homosexuality.

Now, realistically speaking, which occurs more on a yearly basis?

1) The number of Seniors who have their minds and views changed on Homosexuality (while going "against the Bible"?)

OR

2) The number of Seniors who die each and every year due to natural causes



This is a process that only time will cure, and education and investment in the future of America will bring about.

 

[DiamondSkin]

The Gay Republicans on this forum are blaming Obama for the Maine's loss instead of the actual Republicans who continue to further their anti-gay agenda?

I LOL!



Gay Republican Logic:

A anti-gay Republican policy that had been pushed, advocated and supported by Republicans must be...

OBAMA'S FAULT!

Logic Fail....

 

[hotatlboi]

I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that a substantially greater percentage of older people do not support gay rights. That is fact.

Where it gets into ageism is the kind of stuff LL posted like stereotyping people and saying "hey this person is older, I bet he hates gays" etc.

As I've said, older people can change their views, and clearly there are many that have, but statistically they are the least likely to vote for gay rights.

 

[NickCole]

And WTF does that have to do with us losing Maine?

Gays gave Obama their support and their votes and their money. Obama promised to be a fierce advocate for us. He's done virtually nothing.

He went to New Jersey to support Corzine, who'd done a shitty job as Governor. But he wouldn't give us even a strong statement of support we could use in Maine.

I can't stand when people expect for others to do EVERYTHING when they themselves don't do shit. They LOVE to rub losses in people's faces and bitch and complain when they don't do jack shit.

I don't know what you're talking about. I've been doing jack shit for gay rights for nearly forty years. And as I said, though you accused me of bragging, I contributed to the effort in Maine.

 

[josher]

^^Um...the phrase "jack shit" means: nothing. Did you mean to say you've done nothing for forty years?

Not meant as an insult, just a clarification.

 

[NickCole]

And Corzine lost.
And you really think that people would throw their bibles away and do what the President says? You give him too much credit.

Some people will change their minds if the right person says the right thing to them. Also a lot of people are supporters but just didn't come out to vote. Not everyone who didn't vote in our favor is a religious bigot, that's just your one dimensional prejudice.

And how pathetic to make excuses for not even trying. Corzine lost, so that means Obama has no ability to persuade anybody of anything? What a loser quitter way of thinking.

And we're still denied rights. But I appreciate all the work you do and wouldn't demean whatever anyone does or blame my fellow gays for not doing enough. Thanks.

Well you're hardly in a position to demean anyone, but you do. You've been demeaning to me many times, most recently on this very page of this thread, for example, "But seriously, did you go to Maine? No. So do us all a favor and spare us the lecture." As I posted elsewhere and you commented on, I contributed a lot of hours to the No On 1 effort but here you demean me because I didn't go there. Not that I care; just thought I'd point out again how you incessantly make up a new "truth" to suit your position. Your thought process is ingrained with truthiness.

 

[NickCole]

^^Um...the phrase "jack shit" means: nothing. Did you mean to say you've done nothing for forty years?

Not meant as an insult, just a clarification.

Yes I used the term "jack shit" improperly.

Thanks for the clarification, Josher.