Man, I am scum.....

[rareboy]

I wrote the following before I read the post where you said you'd told him.

Do the absolutely moral thing and tell him the real truth of who I am and how I never intended to hurt him, etc.

Have the "character" break his heart clean and quick and never bring up who I am. And then be done with it.

Break his heart and then after a week or so (insert some choice of time frame). E-mail him and let him know the real truth. Really, lay it out there.

If you want really, really harsh from me and I mean really, really harsh, you would go with number One or Three.

Number three is almost the worst.

The fact that you are considering either of those two options indicates to me that you just can't let this go without making sure that he is totally humiliated before you check out. Or just as bad, it is like you imagine that he'll realize he fell for you, not her and you're such a great guy and you'll be happy the rest of your lives together. More likely, on the first date, he'll just cut out your heart. And I don't mean figuratively.

This now has nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing to do with making you feel better or more honest or whatever. Nothing.

This now only is about letting some guy that you have deceptively, knowingly and hurtfully led on. It is fraud of almost the worst order. Unlike cheating someone out of their wealth, you are stripping them of the foundations of their emotional stability and self-respect. A loss that may be incalculable. With repercussions that may affect the rest of their life.

Go back and read my first post.

Just do the right thing. Right now.

Now, for what I really think after reading what choice you made.

You said you were scum.

 

[thephoenix]

Now, for what I really think after reading what choice you made.

You said you were scum.

Hey, you got no argument from me. Maybe I did make the wrong choice, who knows. Maybe I deserve to have my heart ripped out figuratively or literally...perhaps both. There's consequences for everything and in this case getting my heart ripped out would be me getting off lucky.

I just know that this is something I'll regret for a long time..and I'm not someone who indulges in regret. And you're right, I robbed him of his self-respect, emotional stability, and probably his sense of who he is. For that I truly am sorry and remorseful.

Still haven't heard from him....I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't. At any rate, I'm not holding my breath. I think it's kind of arrogant to expect a response anyway

 

[theblackajah]

Wouldn't it be strangely ironic if he was actually a lesbian posing as a man?

 

[thephoenix]

oooh man, I hope he's OK. I wouldn't be surprised if he completely broke down.
I'd think that his first reaction was to get extremely livid, trash the room, then spend the rest of the night crying, and now he's in the most intense pain he's ever felt in his life.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging you, but I would rather just kill myself than to put anyone through that kind of pain.

Then you have an idea of just how tortured I am over what I did. I should be though.

I hope he's okay too. I imagine he's pretty hurt right now. I think he'll be okay after a little bit. I mean he seemed to have a pretty good head on his shoulders aside from falling head over heels so quickly.

 

[thephoenix]

but it isn't wrong to want a reply...and I hope for your sake that he does give you a response.

That's a nice thought, but I really don't think it would be for the best. It's just gotta be filed away as something terrible I did and will never, ever do again.

 

[tallguy297]

Hey phoenix,

I'm a little late to this whole thing but I guess theres somethings I wanted you to know...

First the bad stuff...

Your guilt says you know better... I'm glad that you can recognize this. Our own conscience is the hardest task master and yours is giving you a flogging. Its telling you something... its telling you that you know better. Its telling you that had you been on the receiving end of this little game then you know just how much you would have hurt... thats no bad thing mate. Its a sign that you just got lost and carried away. Its a sign that you breached your own values. No one here can beat you up as much as you can beat yourself...

Having said that...

You did the right thing in telling him. Yes, he hurting badly right now, but at least he cuts this from his life and isnt left pining for some fictional person who just might have been the love of his life. He had created a person that fuliflled his every need... yes you played your part for sure... but the faceless internet has a way of making us think more of a person than they can really be.

To have lied to him and told him you had found someone else would have made him wonder why he wasn't good enough or the right one. Now instead of hurt and agony he feels anger and resentment... bad yes... but not as bad as him being left wondering why...

Phoenix, part of life is facing up. Admitting you were wrong. You did that here. Yep you screwed up. But you also stood up. To do anything less would have been cowardly and a cop out. I commend you for the courage it took to try and make things right.

Sometimes the truth is a hard taskmaster. But rarely the last resort. You gave this guy permission to react to the facts not more bs. And that was the right thing to do.

Now mate its time for you to move on. Its over. Lesson learnt. No more games, no more hurt. Take heart from knowing that you have strong values and morals. Take pride in knowing that despite stepping over them for a while that you knew right from wrong.

Its ok to fuck up. We're human after all. Its how we learn. Sometimes we hurt others, sometimes ourselves. The big thing Phoenix is to make sure the lesson isnt wasted.

And you mate are smart enough and wise enough for this to be a life long lesson in respect... and for that you have my admiration.

 

[thephoenix]

Thanks everyone for your advice on this issue. I'm feeling a little more certain I did the right thing in the end. I guess that depends on who you ask though.

I did look at his MySpace page under my own account to see if there had been any activity indicating that he was at least okay. There was.

He had his mood listed as "crushed" and his headline said he needed a new heart.

He still had the same profile song he had dedicated to "me" - "Let Me Love You" by a group called Lonestar....you can hear it on their MySpace page as well.....the lyrics kinda break my heart...especially now.

But at least he's as okay as can be expected. I think tallguy297 more eloquently put what I think I'd been grasping for all along - this guy had a right to react to the truth on his terms. It wasn't about hope for me, making me feel better, or even hoping not to make him leery around gays (as was, I suspect, the driving agenda behind some of the advice given here for lying to him further). It was about finally being honest with him. Giving him the right to feel crushed for the right reason; not some reason I took upon MYSELF to give him. I had already arrogantly taken his heart, whether I meant to or not. The least I could do was truly give it back.

 

[rareboy]

^ I don't believe you guys.

You create a fraud to make an idiot out of some poor guy and then think that by being honest, he has the ability to move on now that he has the truth. You are all so wrong.

You have planted the seeds of cynicism and self-doubt where there were possibly none before.

You have achieved your purpose of stealing pics of him under false pretenses and humiliating him.

You probably have made him not only distrusting but possible also gay hating.

You will never even see the depth and breadth of the damage you've done by being 'honest.' Check back with his wife in a few years. Or his children 20 years from now.

Jesus wept.

Your logic and moral systems are just completely off kilter here. And so are those of the people who thought he now deserved to be told the truth.

Phoenix, I hope you live with this horrible thing you've done for a long long time. You have no right to feel better now.

I frankly think you'd do it again now that you know you can.

I think you'd better look for another hobby. Maybe it is time that you grew up and stopped spending time on Myspacefacebook.

And maybe start to think before you act.

 

[StlKj]

^When he first started telling us about this, rareboy, I was one of the ones who suggested he not tell the truth. But as others chimed in, I began to realize that a continued lie could be just as bad. How does he break it off in character when this boy believes he loves "her?" How does the boy go on without having lost some innocence? He could be filled with self-doubt just as much that way as he could with the truth. This hurts him, and yes, perhaps makes him cynical. Would not the lie of the break-up as well?

There was no way out of this without hurting this kid. Do you hurt him by breaking his heart, or by shattering his innocence about being gullible on the web? The first way he perhaps avoids falling for anyone; the second way he avoids falling for anyone he hasn't yet met face to face.

 

[thephoenix]

rareboy, I usually find your insights to be logical and helpful and, honestly, at times a bit intimidating. However, with your acid tongue (or in this case is it acid fingers?) some people on this forum are afraid to position themselves against you.

I am not one those people. In this instance, I firmly believe you are WRONG and no amount of bullying will convince me otherwise.

You, rareboy, have no right whatsoever to judge me or presume what I will do or what weight I carry now. You have no idea of the guilt that lives in me at the thought of what that boy will live with from here on out. Or his wife in a few years. Or his children 20 years from now. You think that hasn't crossed my mind? It has. It has, but it crossed my mind too late. Pesky part of growing up (isn't that what you said to do) and being human is making mistakes.

I ask no forgiveness from you or the others who openly judged me in this forum, you owe me none and are clearly incapable of it. In turn I owe you no further explanation, no further defense, and no further apology. The one person I need to be square with and, to whom I truly owe, has all that now and more.

Now I only hope you can put down your stones and get a pair of binoculars to look down from your high horse long enough to see you are no better than anyone else and are just as capable of mistakes as the rest of us. I only hope the next time you make a mistake someone shows you more understanding and compassion than you show others in this forum. Whether you deserve it or not.

 

[xterranx]

^ I don't believe you guys.

You create a fraud to make an idiot out of some poor guy and then think that by being honest, he has the ability to move on now that he has the truth. You are all so wrong.

You have planted the seeds of cynicism and self-doubt where there were possibly none before.

You have achieved your purpose of stealing pics of him under false pretenses and humiliating him.

You probably have made him not only distrusting but possible also gay hating.

You will never even see the depth and breadth of the damage you've done by being 'honest.' Check back with his wife in a few years. Or his children 20 years from now.

Jesus wept.

Your logic and moral systems are just completely off kilter here. And so are those of the people who thought he now deserved to be told the truth.

Phoenix, I hope you live with this horrible thing you've done for a long long time. You have no right to feel better now.

I frankly think you'd do it again now that you know you can.

I think you'd better look for another hobby. Maybe it is time that you grew up and stopped spending time on Myspacefacebook.

And maybe start to think before you act.

Uhm, overdramatic much?

This is the risk you take when you tango with cybering. Frankly, if someone has taken to cybering to find their ~true love!~ then they probably did NOT have any self-respect at all.

And the guy has stupid friends that convinced him to do something stupid. What person hasn't had one or two of those? At least he came here to fix the problem.

Before you even tell me that this guy is going to be overwhelmingly devastated from this deception, I've already met someone who's been on the other side of this situation and they functioned very finely, which is why I said just to tell him the truth. And that person did not hate me for being gay. And you know what, people get deceived in real life; it's time for people to start using some discretion instead of mindlessly accepting everything they see at face value.

 

[rareboy]

rareboy, I usually find your insights to be logical and helpful and, honestly, at times a bit intimidating. However, with your acid tongue (or in this case is it acid fingers?) some people on this forum are afraid to position themselves against you.

Pfft. You probably only find them helpful when they agree with your own point of view.

I could care less if others including you do not agree with my point of view. I always welcome those with opposite as well as apposite points of view. Think of my advice as only a whetstone to sharpen your own perspective and opinions. But this time my sympathies are all with the victim and not with the perp. And I believe I'm on the side of the angels here.

I believe that you could have broken his heart by just terminating communication. He didn't need to know anything else. At that point, it was just one of those on-line facespacebookpage things. Until you had to tell him the truth. Then it became much more.

If you are now convinced you did the right thing, hopefully you are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong.

But I still don't think that telling him the truth had anything to do with him. It was always about the coup de grace or to make you somehow feel better about your lying before.

And trust me, There is nothing bullying in what I've said. I told you what I thought you should do. By the time I offered my opinion, you'd already done the deed. And all I want you and others to bear in mind, is that you may not have done the right thing for him while doing what you thought was right for you.

As for judgement, there is the saying that 'The man has been measured and found wanting'. It doesn't mean though, that you can't make up for what you've done.

And you will note that my signature is based on the teachings of Suffism. So that should be some consolation.

 

[thephoenix]

Pfft. You probably only find them helpful when they agree with your own point of view.

Ha, I will admit that is when I find them MOST helpful, but I don't require they meet my same standards always. I think I should clarify, by bullying, I mean it may not always be your intention, but the combo between your words and tone of your writing indicate bullying.

If you're concerned that I'm patting myself on the back for doing the right thing. Don't worry....far from it. I won't lie and say I didn't tell the truth so I could sleep at night. That was part of the reason. Not the whole reason. I said I wasn't going to defend myself to you anymore, but I do respect your view point and your saying forgiveness can be found. So I would like for you to try to understand why I made the decision I did.

I believe when you do wrong either by mistake or intentionally. You have to seek forgiveness through atonement. Redemption is something we personally and actively take part in. I don't believe I can go around and do wrong and in the end all will be forgiven because the son of God died for our sins and on my deathbed I suddenly regret it.

First you have to want the forgiveness. The matter of whether I deserve it or not is debatable and irrelevant. For me, the first step was admitting that I had done wrong and regretted it. Accept responsibility. Part of doing that was being honest with myself and the person I harmed. There was no hope in forgiveness if there was no truth. Some people may not think that matters, but it does to me. It's not selfish or wrong to want forgiveness. Iasked the guy and God for forgiveness first for the deception and second for the pain I caused. Does it mean I'm right with the Universe or the guy...or even myself? Nah, not by a long shot. Will I ever be? Who's to say? Not me. Not you. Not anybody.

If you knew me rareboy on a personal level, you'd know that I can barely stand causing another human that much pain. I'm kicking myself pretty hard first for foolishly going ahead with something I knew was deceptive and wrong. Second, for selfishly and foolishly taking only into account my own pleasure that developed from talking to the guy. And Third, for harming him with the truth of it all. I know that it probably doesn't make a lot of sense that someone regrets doing something wrong and then turns around and does something that causes more pain (something more wrong). It just felt like this way for him, it would hurt badly for a little while, rather than moderately for a long time. Maybe something he would regret forever. Feel like if he had tried harder for this girl maybe she would have given in. Because that's who he is...a romantic...that's why he fell so hard and so fast...he is a romantic and he wanted to fight for his love. He was still fighting up until the point he found out I was a guy.

You see rareboy, he did what I expected him to do. He rejected me. Instead of this girl he thought was beautiful and wonderful and who he was asking so sincerely to love him, rejecting him...he could reject me. Another guy. It may seem like I was putting the ball in his court and maybe I was, but I felt like it would be easier for him to get over because I was some dude and not this girl of his dreams saying "I don't want you."


It was a two fold decision.


So, I hope that you at least see from my point of view...whether you agree is not important. I just don't want anyone thinking that I'm going around all "lalalalala" because I tried to do right and did what was in my opinion right. I'm not looking for "Good job!" or anything like that.

 

[rareboy]

He rejected me.

No, he was a straight guy who probably doesn't have any interest in having his dick in another guy.

But interesting how you see how you see this.

 

[thephoenix]

No, he was a straight guy who probably doesn't have any interest in having his dick in another guy.

Thus, the rejection.

I personally don't feel rejected; just so long as in the end he perceived it as rejecting me, he could move past it with more confidence than had this "girl" rejected him.

My bad feeling comes from hurting someone else and behaving so inhumanely.

I'm not sitting around pining. I just regret hurting him and wish it could have been different. I understand completely why Me+Him doesn't =Love and can/have accept(ed) it.

 

[3nipples]

Guys, this isn't really leading anywhere. thephoenix asked for advice, got some different opinions, made a decision and acted on it.

There is no point in berating him for choosing a way that you don't agree with.

It was his decision to make. It's done.

 

[thephoenix]

Guys, this isn't really leading anywhere. thephoenix asked for advice, got some different opinions, made a decision and acted on it.

There is no point in berating him for choosing a way that you don't agree with.

It was his decision to make. It's done.

Thank you!

 

[tallguy297]

In a situation like this I think its virtually impossible to find a perfect solution... and this is not about someone being right or wrong. Theres always going to be a debate because one course of action was chosen over another. Unfortunately none of the options repair a hurt and broken heart and ego.

For Phoenix his conscience will be his ultimate teacher. Nothing we say or do here hinders or helps what he believes he's done. We are all ultimately masters of our own choices... and when we fuck up as we inevitably do, we are the ones that bear that burden. I get the impression that Phoenix understands the mistakes he made and the hurt he caused. Lesson learnt. Take from it Phoenix and let it make you a better person.

For the victim of this silly game (that if anyone else thinks is worth playing then think again)... I hope he too in his own way can make sense of this mess.

For me, (and if I was in his position) he had a right to know the facts. Facts that allow him to make judgments and decisions. Its extremely presumptuous of us to decide that he either couldn't handle them or doesn't deserve to know them. No one likes to be hurt but more deception isn't the answer.

Yes, they are also the facts that will cause him hurt and pain. But hopefully they are the facts that give him pause to guard his heart, to be wary and suspicious (in the same way we advise here) of things on the internet seeming too good to be true. They are the facts that will let him understand in time that he did nothing wrong. That he has no reason to doubt, or to question who or what he is. Without those facts he would have spent a long long time wondering why he wasn't the right guy for his perfect girl. Now that doubt can be replaced by anger. Not a perfect substitute for sure but at least one that removes self blame.

But the over riding lesson for all of us here who have watched this thread to remember one word. Respect. Respect for yourself... and respect for others. Remember the damage that one person can do to another either accidentally or intentionally. If we all learn that lesson then all is not lost.

 

[rareboy]

Now that doubt can be replaced by anger.

Yeah. That's so much better.

 

[rareboy]

Actually, I still have to comment on the doubt thing. The fact is, the doubt doesn't get replaced by anger. It is just added to it. The doubt is all just new. He'll now always doubt the truthfulness of anyone on line and likely in creating any new friendship or relationship. He must now have false self doubts about his own sexuality and do anything to prove what a man he really is. Including acting like a hyper macho jerk.

The best thing that could happen, and this is where some good may come of it, is that one dumb fuck may now realize how stupid it is to pull down your pants and wag your penis because you never know how many people are going to laugh at it and you. Maybe he'll also realize that sitting in his parents' basement in front of a monitor all the time isn't the ideal way to find the perfect girl. And then maybe he'll just shut it off and go out into the real world.