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McCain flunks Made in America 101

I am assuming you are trying to set a Tarrif structure for NAFTA and China, to insure the NAFTA nations get the edge

That equation would get you the effect you desire if you stipulate N<O.

Why should N have to be less than O? The tax rate doesn't depend on those values, but on the number of jobs in those places. A company could have 15% of its jobs in the U.S., 60% of its jobs in neighboring countries, and 25% of its jobs in China, Indonesia, or whatever, and the equation works just fine: it pays takes on 15% of its income at the low domestic rate, 60% at the not-quite-so-low neighbor/NAFTA rate, and 25% at the painful "over there" rate.

That stipulation could be codified, but as we all know, regulations are subject to either the legislature or the executive office, perhaps treasury sec. or the fed.

So it can be reversed if arizona, a likely player, says it caused too much illegal immigration.

It should decrease illegal immigration as factories relocate from China, etc., to Mexico. Either way, illegal immigration is a separate issue that should be dealt with via harsh penalties on employers -- and kick their domestic tax rate to the foreign one for the year of the violation.

It would be better to set the value of N differently, and to use this streamlined formula...

(C%+N%)D
C = Flat tax rate
N = portion of jobs in Nafta treaty nations.
D = Distance designated by time zones from american borders.

legislate that exemptions on any value of this formula can only be given to nations that file income tax and list their headquarters within american borders, or by treaties ratified by congress.

You're adding different things. And I wouldn't allow exemptions at all. The only changes I would allow would be a lower rate for the rest of the western hemisphere than for the eastern, and a different rate for allies.
 
not less than zero. less than the sum represented in your formula by O.

I didn't really change so much as set them in a less abstract or adjustable way.

The simpler the formula the less it can be tampered with by politics... the bane of economic formulae. Political will cannot be quantified.

remember we are trying to get the money from the companies that hide from the IRS like Koch industries by having corporate residencies outside the US, use foreign labor that is cheap, and sell their products to the american people.

Money is being sucked out of the economy via offshore tax shelters. These companies do not pay americans for labor and so the income tax is lost, and they do not pay corporate income tax, as they pretend to be bahamian corporation.

A tax code for them needs to be developed that only makes their business costs feasable if they hire american and pay corporate taxes.

The days of the IRS sending corporations rebate checks has GOT to end. That law should just be passed. NO corporation should ever recieve a check from the IRS.
 
(C%+N%)D
C = Flat tax rate
N = portion of jobs in Nafta treaty nations.
D = Distance designated by time zones from american borders.

N would be the individual corporations percentage of jobs NOT in the NAFTA treaty... sorry.

revised....

(C%+N%)D
C = Flat tax rate
N = portion of jobs NOT in Nafta treaty nations.
D = Distance designated by time zones from american borders

the value "D", The distance penalty is a way to stop jobs from going to areas that are less likely to consume our goods.

it accounts for the lost Revenue of states sales taxes. that multiplier could go to fund federally mandated state programs. It would be delivered to the states that house the corporate offices. This gets the states on board and stops police and teachers from being fired, as well as gives medicaid the fix it needs.

It is an elegant and simple solution.

Washington would hate it.
 
N would be the individual corporations percentage of jobs NOT in the NAFTA treaty... sorry.

revised....

(C%+N%)D
C = Flat tax rate
N = portion of jobs NOT in Nafta treaty nations.
D = Distance designated by time zones from american borders

the value "D", The distance penalty is a way to stop jobs from going to areas that are less likely to consume our goods.

it accounts for the lost Revenue of states sales taxes. that multiplier could go to fund federally mandated state programs. It would be delivered to the states that house the corporate offices. This gets the states on board and stops police and teachers from being fired, as well as gives medicaid the fix it needs.

It is an elegant and simple solution.

Washington would hate it.

You're still adding unlike terms. Percent income + percent jobs doesn't work. In addition, you can get totals over 100 -- say your tax rate is 25%, a company has 85% of its jobs overseas, they end up paying (if you're turning percent jobs into percent tax) 110%, times your distance function -- but distance to what? Are you going to take an average distance to each of their factories? or the distance to the capital of each nation they have factories in? What if they have more than one factory in a country, does that country count just once, or once for each factory?

My formula is much clearer and very simple: it has different zones, and a tax rate for each zone, applied by the portion of the company's jobs in each zone. It's a formula that could be written on a blackboard at a town hall meeting and everyone would get it. There's no vagueness in the terms, they're very clear-cut.
 
N would have to be a sliding scale set by congress anually, not a litteral percentage. The tax bracket would focus on where jobs are located. "B"The flat tax would be set anually and would NOT be a bracket.

It gives the ultimate best results for mom and pop businesses, who could wind up paying NO taxes, while insuring that mega internationals pay without evasion.
 
So you're calculating a total tax rate, I'm taxing according to where the jobs actually are.

Hmm.

if you add a tax, it can be undone.

If you overhaul the taxcode and reformulate, you can simplify in alot of ways that prevents abuse through corporate handouts.

basing corporate taxes entirely on income is fruitless at this point because it allows the big guys to take the cash and run without affecting employment issues.

Its going on right now... wall street just broke all records today. It is now 95 percent higher than when Obama got in office and it has never had as long a run as this... two years of continuous growth.

so you have to ask yourself three questions....

Wheres the cash

Where are the jobs

Why do people think the economy has no money?
 
if you add a tax, it can be undone.

If you overhaul the taxcode and reformulate, you can simplify in alot of ways that prevents abuse through corporate handouts.

basing corporate taxes entirely on income is fruitless at this point because it allows the big guys to take the cash and run without affecting employment issues.

Its going on right now... wall street just broke all records today. It is now 95 percent higher than when Obama got in office and it has never had as long a run as this... two years of continuous growth.

so you have to ask yourself three questions....

Wheres the cash

Where are the jobs

Why do people think the economy has no money?

If you're not going to tax income, what will you tax?

And I'm not adding a tax, I'm changing the system.
 
If you're not going to tax income, what will you tax?

And I'm not adding a tax, I'm changing the system.

Baseline tax is income

(C%+N%)D
C = Flat tax rate
N = portion of jobs NOT in Nafta treaty nations.
D = Distance designated by time zones from american borders

but that should be lowered to give smaller businesses an ability to compete. As it stands now, the small businesses are paying 36 to 38 with little to no ability to escape this extreme level, while there seems to be a sliding scale... not codified directly but codified nevertheless, that allows business to take decreases in their tax structures as they get larger and larger.

By the time you get to the top 500, america is giving THEM cash refunds that amount in millions per company, thanks to lobbyists and those that take their money.

That all needs to be scrapped and the baseline modifier N we assigned would be the best way forward. It is more of an indicator of how much a company actually pays into the american economy. The distance modifier makes companies pay a tax rate for making and transporting goods from a place that will have a negative effect on the costs of oil and the ecology.

Note that if a company is paying its corporate taxes and is based in the USA it could get a waiver on N or D, as I had previously stipulated, so we are not wrecklessly abandoning the companies that produce goods in other nations. We are just giving them a choice... build at home, pay for the abuse to the economy of using foreign labor OR pay for the abuse of transporting and consuming oil needlessly.

so....

IF the corporate tax was set as ten percent, and the employee and distance modifiers were used, it would create VAST small business growth, bring jobs home, and penalize nations that do their business in america but use offshore addresses as a shelter.
 
Baseline tax is income



but that should be lowered to give smaller businesses an ability to compete. As it stands now, the small businesses are paying 36 to 38 with little to no ability to escape this extreme level, while there seems to be a sliding scale... not codified directly but codified nevertheless, that allows business to take decreases in their tax structures as they get larger and larger.

By the time you get to the top 500, america is giving THEM cash refunds that amount in millions per company, thanks to lobbyists and those that take their money.

That all needs to be scrapped and the baseline modifier N we assigned would be the best way forward. It is more of an indicator of how much a company actually pays into the american economy. The distance modifier makes companies pay a tax rate for making and transporting goods from a place that will have a negative effect on the costs of oil and the ecology.

Note that if a company is paying its corporate taxes and is based in the USA it could get a waiver on N or D, as I had previously stipulated, so we are not wrecklessly abandoning the companies that produce goods in other nations. We are just giving them a choice... build at home, pay for the abuse to the economy of using foreign labor OR pay for the abuse of transporting and consuming oil needlessly.

so....

IF the corporate tax was set as ten percent, and the employee and distance modifiers were used, it would create VAST small business growth, bring jobs home, and penalize nations that do their business in america but use offshore addresses as a shelter.

This is complex. How do you figure the distance modifier, for starters? You say time zones, but what about goods that have to come indirectly, so they cross into a time zone, back out, and back in? Peru is "closer" than the Dominican Republic, measured this way, and Argentina the same distance as Bermuda. And how do you weight it -- number of widgets produced at that factory, number of employees at that factory, or what?

And again, how do you add an income percentage to an employee percentage? The units don't match. Besides that, you're multiplying portion of jobs outside NAFTA by the distance modifier, so you're penalizing geometrically for jobs outside the U.S. -- is that the idea? And if D is an integer, unless you set your tax rate very, very low indeed you're going to be taxing some companies more than their income.

Seems pretty messy to me.
 
its just the beginning of a model. It needs work and it needs changes. This is the process that people go through when developing economic theory, what we are doing, and it takes a while to consider the options, consider alternate ways of producing better effects, etc.

By and large, your idea gave me an idea and the two theories just need to be justified or combined in a way that meets all criteria.

When I saw your formula I hesitated for a day to answer because I know the answer isn't just one or two posts... its a very elaborate exchange of ideas and tinkering back and forth.

Can you tinker with my model and get it closer to yours? Show me how to simplify your formula and mine so that they can be compatible... tell me what I need to ditch to get to where you want to be.
 
its just the beginning of a model. It needs work and it needs changes. This is the process that people go through when developing economic theory, what we are doing, and it takes a while to consider the options, consider alternate ways of producing better effects, etc.

By and large, your idea gave me an idea and the two theories just need to be justified or combined in a way that meets all criteria.

When I saw your formula I hesitated for a day to answer because I know the answer isn't just one or two posts... its a very elaborate exchange of ideas and tinkering back and forth.

Can you tinker with my model and get it closer to yours? Show me how to simplify your formula and mine so that they can be compatible... tell me what I need to ditch to get to where you want to be.

First, stop adding things that don't add.

I started this way -- asking what the variables are. The target is to differentiate tax rates between domestic, neighbors/NAFTA, and foreign/father away, so (starting over) designate those by D, N, F. Since what we're looking at is where the workers are, these become %D, %N, %F, for "percentage of workers located in". Then we want different rates for there, so H% (home percent), M% (to go with N), and O% (overseas).

The calculation is simple: what they pay for operations at home plus what they pay for neighboring/NAFTA operations plus what they pay for foreign operations; thus %D*H% + %N*M% + %F*O%.

Now how you set the values is a different question. Since the idea is to reward companies for keeping jobs here, H would be low, and the other two higher. But they don't have to be constants; functions would thoroughly baffle McCain (though as a naval aviator, he had to take calculus). So for the value of O%....

The time zone idea is attractive, but it only works one direction really. So let's standardize it: it's 360 degrees around the world, 24 time zones, so there's 15 degrees in a time zone. Set that as the standard: units of 15 degrees around the globe from the U.S., so it doesn't matter that Peru is in the same time zone as the western U.S., but that it's around 45 degrees from the closest point in the U.S. -- three separations, not zero.

Though at this point, there's no reason not to make it such large units -- just use degrees of separation ( :lol: ). If I'm guestimating right on the cheap-as map I found online, Lima is 49 degrees from Houston -- using the closest large city rather than merely the border ~~ port of entry would be another point possible, but I don't have a map of those.

The question then is how to use that. Standard procedure with such things when modeling wildlife or geology is to turn the number into a decimal fraction of 1, to use as a direct modifier on whatever your present total is. The obvious move would be to divide by 360, but that's misleading, because 180 degrees is as far as one can get from the U.S. Hang on, though; the U.S. spans four time zones one way and the equivalent of two the other (neglecting Alaska and Hawaii; I'm working with just the contiguous states). Now we have two choices: we can treat the U.S. as a mathematical point, or we can take some degrees out of the equation. I'm for the second, and take off that 30 degrees north-south, so we have a total maximum 'distance' of 150 degrees. So to get the coefficient for company x, we take its distance in degrees over 150, giving a number from zero to one.

Then use that to make whatever tax rate you want.

To put that in the equation:

%D*H% + %N*M% + %F*f(d)%, where f(d) is a function of distance.

That's enough stretching the brain for now.
 
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