Moldovan Christians Tear Down Hanukkah Menorah

[LoveIsNow]

Tell me again why I should care what hapens in Moldova?

Am I ordered to be interested exclusively in Jewish news? Pretty presumptuous of you. I can imagine the response if a Christian mirrored your actions.

As conscientious citizens of the world, you should be upset by hatred and intolerance anywhere in the world.

In the USA Christian symbols are regularly torn down by political correctness and many times by the ACLU.

Yes, but those are usually in government settings, and they are removed along with other religious symbols to keep secular spaces neutral. (Rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's, shall we say?) They aren't torn down and replaced with symbols from another religion, as was the case in this story. Businesses have the right to place whatever religious symbols they want, and customers have the right to protest the presence or absence of whatever they want.

 

[Kulindahr]

I agree that the situations are completely different.

In Moldova, a mob of Christians tore down a symbol of faith because it was not Christian.

In the USA, the Christian Ten Commandments are frequently removed from a court of law in respect to the establishment clause which prevents the government from preferring one religion or the other.

Good points.

I liked the court somewhere that ruled the Ten Commandments could stay up if similar sets of commandments from all faiths represented in the community were put up.
Faced with seeing Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, and Aristotelian (submitted by some atheists as representing ethics based on reason) lists going up in the courthouse, too, the Christians backed down.

 

[Kulindahr]

Exactly.

The next bone of contention is in the Ten Commandments which state I am the Lord your God, you shall not have any other Gods before me. That is not part of any American law, anywhere, and should never be recognized by any court in the United States as being the basis of said law.

As a Christian, I'd have to object strenuously to that being included in any law in any form. Doing so would blatantly go against Jesus' words about God and Caesar.

And if any administration ever got such a thing passed, I'd deem it time to invoke the right to insurrection, and look for other people who thought so, to get rid of the bastards.

 

[Chalchalero]

There's certainly widespread veiled anti Jewish sentiments in the West, but I think the mainstream media is pretty sympathetic to Israel and Jews in general. International news in general is not covered that well in the US, except that which directly affects American interests or American people.

There's certainly widespread veiled anti Jewish sentiments in the West

I wiah I understood why so many Jews think that everyone in the world hates them all of the time. It is that strange "poor me the victim" mentality that definitely annoys the hell out of many of us, especially here in Europe where the worship of Israel is not as mandatory as in the US (Thank God!)

International news in general is not covered that well in the US, except that which directly affects American interests or American people.

This is sad but true. I have never been able to understasnd how a nation which has such an interest in maintaining some level of imagined hegemony around the world has no concept or even interest in what goes on in that same world unless it somehow applies to them. The American news media is as myopic as that in any totalitarian state. It is very strange.

 

[SoulSearcher]

I wiah I understood why so many Jews think that everyone in the world hates them all of the time. It is that strange "poor me the victim" mentality that definitely annoys the hell out of many of us, especially here in Europe where the worship of Israel is not as mandatory as in the US (Thank God!)

It's incredibly simplistic of you to summarise it like that, just because you imagine that Jews have a victim mentality does not mean that hatred towards Jews doesn't exist. Its funny I notice the same mentality here in the US, whites like to imagine that racism is not as big a problem, men like to think that systematic discrimination against women doesn't happen, gays like to think that non white gays are not discriminated against...Jews don't imagine that there is hatred for Jews that manifests in terrible ways even today, it actually happens. Don't be annoyed when it is brought forth, be annoyed that it still happens...even after all that transpired in that continent.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's kind of like some gays who act like they're so incredibly oppressed -- while they're sitting in a gay bar with nude male dancers, free condoms in the back, and signs outside letting the world know it's a gay establishment, in a town that has a big Gay Pride event every year.

Some people love to be miserable.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's incredibly simplistic of you to summarise it like that, just because you imagine that Jews have a victim mentality does not mean that hatred towards Jews doesn't exist. Its funny I notice the same mentality here in the US, whites like to imagine that racism is not as big a problem, men like to think that systematic discrimination against women doesn't happen, gays like to think that non white gays are not discriminated against...Jews don't imagine that there is hatred for Jews that manifests in terrible ways even today, it actually happens. Don't be annoyed when it is brought forth, be annoyed that it still happens...even after all that transpired in that continent.

I think that part of the problem arises from being blind to the world outside the nice, tidy, old and dignified civilization of Europe. There are things to which Americans tend to be blind, but there are a lot of things to which Europeans tend to be blind -- the big one being the belief that somehow if we just be nice, the world will all get along.

But there are people who hate Jews enough that such an attitude isn't going to lead anywhere. You can even find it in the U.S., where some guys at my university back when refused to join a certain fraternity because there was a member who was Jewish!

 

[Kurn]

I often say to myself that we are witnessing the painful death of many a mental-relic of the Middle Ages. We are not really modern just yet, not really grasping self-realization, not really weaned from the common milk of humanity. That mind-set has its purposes which do not include continuing on in them...
Instead of trying to analyse what's absurd and what isn't, try to look at the whole picture, and then at broad sections of it all.
Changing how we look at each other, changing what our eyes are doing is what we need and in pursuit of this demand for change I point at all sects and anti-sects.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

This news story is a significant event.
One only has to look at history and how it repeats itself. The Diaspora, the Inquisitions, Kristalnacht (Sp?), the Warsaw Ghetto, the Death Camps, the KKK, current Iranian leaders.
Anti-semitic acts tend to start small and snowball.
Jews are a convenient minority to lash out upon.
However in our country it is a trifling issue compared to Anna Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson and Tiger Woods.
I hope Moldavan zeal to join the US puts a halt to this behavior early on.

 

[Liam84215]

That is right, Russia currently has more neo-Nazis and neo-Nazi skinheads than any other country in the continent. There is a lot of violence against Caucasians including Armenians and Azerbaijanis, and lots of random attacks on Africans, Indians, Kazakhs, and of course, Jews. Caucasian is almost an insult in Russian, it's used to refer to darker peoples (as in of the Caucasus).

yeah Neo-Nazism is a big problem, but the government seems to look the other way. Its said to be much worse in St Petersburg. I had a brief aspiration to settle down in Moscow, but as soon as I heard of the violence against non-slavic people, I changed my mind quickly. With regard to Moldova, i'm not surprised to say the least. Moldova has many issues. It even has its own break away province(Transinistra). But racism no matter where, even in the smallest non-significant country is a big problem.

 

[Kulindahr]

[Quoted text: Removed by Moderator]

I'd say that unless you're totally uncaring about anything but your own little piece of the world, the article was of interest.

Oppression is not more oppressive when it involves a prominent example than when it involves a small one. Discussing oppression is just as much 'intellectual masturbation' when it involves something obscure as when it involves something prominent.

If nothing else, this incident was worthy of attention because it was led by the priest, the very head of the Christian community. I haven't seen that in very many reports before.

 

[Chalchalero]

It's incredibly simplistic of you to summarise it like that, just because you imagine that Jews have a victim mentality does not mean that hatred towards Jews doesn't exist. Its funny I notice the same mentality here in the US, whites like to imagine that racism is not as big a problem, men like to think that systematic discrimination against women doesn't happen, gays like to think that non white gays are not discriminated against...Jews don't imagine that there is hatred for Jews that manifests in terrible ways even today, it actually happens. Don't be annoyed when it is brought forth, be annoyed that it still happens...even after all that transpired in that continent.

We are bombarded on a constant basis with what "transpired on that continent" and are never able to forget it. But it is rather on the larger scale of what happened to all of Europe and what those events did to our nations individuallu and to Europe as a whole. We are constantly (particularly the French and Germans and more recently the Swiss) revisiting and re-analysing the roles of individuals in each country throughout the ordeal and what that means for our own identities and the level of guilt borne by each of us as a community.

This does not and nor should it, however, translate itself into a license for the Jewish or any other community for that matter to milk the guilt out of our society in order to achieve some sort of immunity from discussion over the issues that do still exist between Jews and non-Jews. Too often, however, this is the case. The Jew will state his case and then run behind the anti-Semite line screaming "anyone who crosses this line (i.e. questions my views) is an anti-Semite and hates us!" This is ridiculous.

Please do not confuse frustration with hatred.

 

[Chalchalero]

I think that part of the problem arises from being blind to the world outside the nice, tidy, old and dignified civilization of Europe. There are things to which Americans tend to be blind, but there are a lot of things to which Europeans tend to be blind -- the big one being the belief that somehow if we just be nice, the world will all get along.

But there are people who hate Jews enough that such an attitude isn't going to lead anywhere. You can even find it in the U.S., where some guys at my university back when refused to join a certain fraternity because there was a member who was Jewish!

The idealised vision of Europe you have portrayed is just that - idealised. It is a goal which many of us hope to reach one day, but it is far from the reality, because the truth is that real life does come crashing in and no matter how nice we try to be the world still does not seem to want to get along. Such is life.

At least I do know that in Europe anti-Semitism is no longer as institutionalised as it appears to still be in some segments of America, judging by your anecdote. It is in fact illegal in most countries and is not tolerated on any level. And yet we are always accused of being the anti-Semites. Does America have such a law, I wonder?

In Austria, it is even illegal to question the Holocaust or any aspects of it which have been officially determined as fact by the prevailing powers that be. Does America have this?

Please do not believe that your condescending views of Europe bear any semblance to reality, because they do not.

 

[Chalchalero]

Anti-semetism is not as bad in the West as it used to be, but it is clearly evident that it still exists, thanks to this post. It is endemic, and historic, to Europe in general, [Quoted text: Removed by Moderator]

You are right about one thing and wrong on the other. I do have a very cynical view towards Jews and the way they have parlayed their vicytim status into an international power base and a license to kill in the Occupied Territories.

But this does not tranlate into anti-Semitism. I do not HATE anyone. I am flabbergasted and annoyed with them much of the time. But hate is far too strong a word.

Besides, Arabs are Semites too, and no one has accused me of hating them. Iranians, Assyrians and Maltese people are Semitic and I don't believe they are even part of the discusiion. Or are they? Did I miss something?

 

[prudyprudestein]

Intolerance of any kind is based in fear. When one gets to know other then the fear begins to subside and tolerance ensue. Reality is that hatred and intolerance have been taught by most groups of the world. Differences are good and must be respected by all people.

 

[cklover]

I know alot about orthodox (greek).
They seems to be very un-educated religious wise. They only follow what the priest says which is wrong. Hence orthodox religion is inferior than other christian religion.

It's apparent that you know absolutely nothing about Greek Orthodox or you wouldn't make such an outrageous statement.

 

[JB3]

The idealised vision of Europe you have portrayed is just that - idealised. It is a goal which many of us hope to reach one day, but it is far from the reality, because the truth is that real life does come crashing in and no matter how nice we try to be the world still does not seem to want to get along. Such is life.

At least I do know that in Europe anti-Semitism is no longer as institutionalised as it appears to still be in some segments of America, judging by your anecdote. It is in fact illegal in most countries and is not tolerated on any level. And yet we are always accused of being the anti-Semites. Does America have such a law, I wonder?

In Austria, it is even illegal to question the Holocaust or any aspects of it which have been officially determined as fact by the prevailing powers that be. Does America have this?.

No, because our citizens are free to speak and believe whatever they wish. Sure, they'll get called out on it if its hateful and they'll most certainly become a pariah because of it, but they're free to believe it as long as they do not follow up those things with action. I'd much prefer a society where people are free to speak and think whatever they choose than the totalitarian society you described above.

([Text: Removed by Moderator])

 

[BearMagus]

Maybe they did it because Hanukkah is over and it's almost time for Christmas in the Eastern Church.