Muslim terror across Europe

[Corny]

I see that scare tactics are working wonders with you.

give up all your freedoms, the terrorists are coming. be afraid, because that's what they want.

I also love how you always claim that others don't understand something but you do because you had some vaguely related experience or some friend/relative who said something about the topic ..

 

[Kulindahr]

^ So you want us to believe there are no terrorists, that the footage in a fair number of videos, including what Johann saw, was actually staged in some equivalent of Hollywood?

 

[kallipolis]

That Timothy McVeigh (one of the conspirators, in the Oklahoma City bombing) was of Irish extraction, and Catholic might then lead us to believe that we should be wary of Americans of Catholic Irish extraction.

The Oklahoma blast claimed 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured more than 680 people.

I reckon that this incident can be classified as a terrorist act as a result of Mr. McVeigh's membership of a militia movement.

I have tactfully avoided mentioning the IRA.

 

[Kulindahr]

That Timothy McVeigh (one of the conspirators, in the Oklahoma City bombing) was of Irish extraction, and Catholic might then lead us to believe that we should be wary of Americans of Catholic Irish extraction.

Only if you're an idiot. One does not look at random identifiers, one looks at motivational associations.

I reckon that this incident can be classified as a terrorist act as a result of Mr. McVeigh's membership of a militia movement.

Correct assessment, wrong reason: it can be classed as a terrorist act because of the stated motivation and the manner in which it was carried out.

There were actually a few million Americans who would have cheered for him if he'd made very certain there wouldn't be any casualties, or only a few (and those limited to government employees). That would have made it definable as an act of war -- instead, no logic on earth (except that of Islamists) could make it one, and thus is was terrorist. It's as though instead of tossing tea into the harbor, the original Tea Party participants had rounded up the women and children of the Crown's officialdom and chucked them into the bay instead.

 

[kallipolis]

Only if you're an idiot. One does not look at random identifiers, one looks at motivational associations.

Correct assessment, wrong reason: it can be classed as a terrorist act because of the stated motivation and the manner in which it was carried out.

There were actually a few million Americans who would have cheered for him if he'd made very certain there wouldn't be any casualties, or only a few (and those limited to government employees). That would have made it definable as an act of war -- instead, no logic on earth (except that of Islamists) could make it one, and thus is was terrorist. It's as though instead of tossing tea into the harbor, the original Tea Party participants had rounded up the women and children of the Crown's officialdom and chucked them into the bay instead.

It is my understanding that no United States born, Muslim Americans were involved in the sordid 9/11 tragedy. I gather that the conspirators were all Saudis.

My point is that to use a broad brush to demonise all Muslims, as Islamic terrorists is neither logical, nor advisable in a world that needs as many Muslim friends, as The West can muster to defeat all forms of Islamic terrorism.

In the last week it has been made transparent that the Saudi intelligence service tipped off the UK, and the US on the movement of explosives by air cargo from Dubai, to the UK, ultimately for delivery to a Chicago synagogue.

The explosives were discovered at a UK airport, and at Dubai airport. The terrorists behind this plot were arrested by the authorities in Yemen.

I reckon that improving relations with the Muslim world will ensure that the Islamic terrorists are further marginalised.

 

[Corny]

^ So you want us to believe there are no terrorists, that the footage in a fair number of videos, including what Johann saw, was actually staged in some equivalent of Hollywood?

that's not what i said and i hope you know that ..

 

[Kulindahr]

It is my understanding that no United States born, Muslim Americans were involved in the sordid 9/11 tragedy. I gather that the conspirators were all Saudis.

My point is that to use a broad brush to demonise all Muslims, as Islamic terrorists is neither logical, nor advisable in a world that needs as many Muslim friends, as The West can muster to defeat all forms of Islamic terrorism.

In the last week it has been made transparent that the Saudi intelligence service tipped off the UK, and the US on the movement of explosives by air cargo from Dubai, to the UK, ultimately for delivery to a Chicago synagogue.

The explosives were discovered at a UK airport, and at Dubai airport. The terrorists behind this plot were arrested by the authorities in Yemen.

I reckon that improving relations with the Muslim world will ensure that the Islamic terrorists are further marginalised.

The only use of a broad brush here has been to try to paint the terrorists as not really a problem.

The problem is Islamic terror groups in Europe, terrorizing their own people and then their host countries. I doubt U.S. or Saudi intelligence has much to do with things on that level (or maybe I hope they don't; that would mean things are far worse than my worst fears).

 

[kallipolis]

The only use of a broad brush here has been to try to paint the terrorists as not really a problem.

The problem is Islamic terror groups in Europe, terrorizing their own people and then their host countries. I doubt U.S. or Saudi intelligence has much to do with things on that level (or maybe I hope they don't; that would mean things are far worse than my worst fears).

I doubt whether any regular on this forum has indicated that there is no problem with terrorism. I have not witnessed such a sentiment being expressed here.

We are still waiting for Zeno to provide us with a credible source/link that supports his allegations that in European countries Muslims, are terrorising their fellow Muslims.

I note that in the last week a Swede has been arrested for murder, and wounding of many Muslim immigrants living in Sweden.:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/11/07/sweden.shootings.suspect/index.html

There is growing cooperation between the intelligence communities in The West, and many Muslim countries. The very recent successful exposure of the plot to bomb a Chicago synagogue was the result of such cooperation.

 

[EastMed]

So basically you concede that there is a problem with Islamic terror in Europe that seeks to force all Muslims to become militant and support their violence against their host countries.

Really Kulindahr you are over-reacting. Yes, we have a problem with Islamic radicals in Europe but police forces and counter-terrorist organizations are working hard to protect us from them. We have a border with the Islamic world and we have lived with it (during good times and bad) since its foundation.
Millions of Europeans holiday every year in Islamic countries and many elderly people retire to countries like Turkey, Morocco and Tunisia because it is cheaper and warmer.
Believe me, we will handle this.
Unfortunately, American foreign policy in the region doesn't help.

 

[kallipolis]

Call me a cynic, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that in the country that scores last in the world on gender equality (wonder what's the cause for that....)

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/gendergap/rankings2010.pdf

there is some sort of covert ring of female islamist terrorists active, that is promptly uncovered at first convenience.

If we are going to need the deeply corrupt regimes of Yemen and Saudi Arabia to stop terrorism, we are in trouble indeed...but that's hardly news of course.

The cultural habits and gender inequalities of certain Muslim countries is not my concern. Terrorist assaults concern me.

Corruption is not monopolised by Saudi Arabia, nor Yemen.

That the Saudi authorities have killed, or imprisoned many of their own domestic focused Islamic terrorists, does indicate that gender inequality is not a factor when the Saudi authorities are hunting terrorists.

When the need is to save lives, and limbs then our enemy's, enemy is automatically our friend.

 

[kallipolis]

That much is clear. You'd rather have the Yemen clergymen scapegoat a few women to put your mind at ease about our muslim 'friends' in Yemen, then face reality and realising that trusting this sort of a regime is suicidal.

The Yemeni authorities have been, and continue to be cooperative with The West in detaining, and/or killing Islamic terrorists. I would like to see this cooperation developing sufficiently to avoid The West, having to place soldiers on the ground, in Yemen in order to do the work for the Yemen authorities.

With intelligence supplied by the Yemeni authorities, drones have been used to kill Islamic terrorists, operating in the more desolated parts of Yemen.

Gender inequality in Muslim countries, such as Yemen is not going to impact on The West's capability to wage a counter-terrorist campaign against Islamic terrorists.

 

[Corny]

yet, despite all their cooperation, everybody screams to ground planes from yemen and to not receive any packages from them.

meanwhile leftwing extremists from greece were sending out mailbombs to the half of europe .. and hardly anybody asks for any kind of special measures against packages or postal planes from greece

 

[kallipolis]

yet, despite all their cooperation, everybody screams to ground planes from yemen and to not receive any packages from them.

meanwhile leftwing extremists from greece were sending out mailbombs to the half of europe .. and hardly anybody asks for any kind of special measures against packages or postal planes from greece

That Yemen has been identified as the source of this latest attempt at a terrorist assault on a Western target , by the Saudi intelligence services, has ensured that all cargo freight from Yemen to The West has been placed on temporary hold, until the Yemeni authorities can upgrade their airport security measures.

The Greek authorities immediately stopped the expedition of external destined mail until additional security measures could be implemented to scan all external destined packages. Mail for external destinations from Greece has resumed normal service as a result of these measures having been implemented.

 

[Kulindahr]

Unfortunately, American foreign policy in the region doesn't help.

No argument there.
Not that it's a defense, but we learned our methods there from the British. The difference is that they figured out they were being idiots -- we seem to have leaders who like being idiots.

 

[Kulindahr]

When the need is to save lives, and limbs then our enemy's, enemy is automatically our friend.

Merely our ally of necessity.

 

[Kulindahr]

yet, despite all their cooperation, everybody screams to ground planes from yemen and to not receive any packages from them.

meanwhile leftwing extremists from greece were sending out mailbombs to the half of europe .. and hardly anybody asks for any kind of special measures against packages or postal planes from greece

Nice perspective.

If we could only get them to mail their bombs to each other....

 

[Kulindahr]

That Yemen has been identified as the source of this latest attempt at a terrorist assault on a Western target , by the Saudi intelligence services, has ensured that all cargo freight from Yemen to The West has been placed on temporary hold, until the Yemeni authorities can upgrade their airport security measures.

The Greek authorities immediately stopped the expedition of external destined mail until additional security measures could be implemented to scan all external destined packages. Mail for external destinations from Greece has resumed normal service as a result of these measures having been implemented.

So I should have read further on....

 

[Kulindahr]

That Yemen has been identified as the source of this latest attempt at a terrorist assault on a Western target , by the Saudi intelligence services, has ensured that all cargo freight from Yemen to The West has been placed on temporary hold, until the Yemeni authorities can upgrade their airport security measures.

The Greek authorities immediately stopped the expedition of external destined mail until additional security measures could be implemented to scan all external destined packages. Mail for external destinations from Greece has resumed normal service as a result of these measures having been implemented.

So I should have read further on....

 

[TheFireGod]

When the need is to save lives, and limbs then our enemy's, enemy is automatically our friend.

Merely our ally of necessity.

I guess...

Yemen's central government keep being in power.
Saudi Arabia keeps their status quo.
The USA has a little less terrorists to worry about.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

Not to channel Ambrosia or whatever his name is/was but I find the whole terrorism thing more and more fishy all the time. I don't know what's going on but something's just not right.