My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

[dereperez]

Your experiment is interesting, but I don't think a sample size of five is really much to go on. Maybe if there were multiple accounts (with different photos and personality combinations) of each race/ethnicity...that would be something more to go by...

 

[Benvolio]

wait i did what now?!?!?!?!?

That should read "Hylas asked why he could not make more white friends"

 

[Telstra]

Your experiment is interesting, but I don't think a sample size of five is really much to go on. Maybe if there were multiple accounts (with different photos and personality combinations) of each race/ethnicity...that would be something more to go by...

umm five is quite a lot considering
each person met countless people for many years ??

 

[bankside]

I think if the experiment is going to be criticised on the basis of duration, it would be helpful for people to state what duration would be valid. Even better if they could demonstrate some statistical intervals of confidence based on the duration.

At the moment, that particular criticism strikes me as one of convenience: if it had been a one-year experiment, the critics would want two year. If it had been a two-year experiment, only four years would do. If they had gone for six months, only a year could be valid…oh, wait!!!

 

[Lefty]

Getting difficult to separate the idiots, morons, trolls, thinkers, non thinkers, the
articulate and the mouths here that have a dictionary/thesaurus someone taught
them to read before giving one to them JMPO&O

1. In my time here, Hard-up1 has been consistently articulate (even when his POV might
not be as valid.
...Put this, none relevant to the thread, whine aside...

2. It's all white peoples fault...or so it sounds

AMERINDS have a fuckwad more to complain about as to discrimination and abject racism.

3. O/Pp made his statement when he opened this thread.

Anybody remember what it was?

I don't claim to KNOW-It-All but in the gay or straight world I have observed more latent
discrimination of all varieties by percentage points With Gays. (over 1/3rd of the world)
********************************************************************
as long as we are off the threads original topic..........JMHO...
One last stab and I will leave you before some Admin/Mod decides to Ban me tonight.

Since 1776, the USA has stumbled, fumbled faltered and had relapses BUT, women, people
of colour, religious people any alleged minority of any flavour are doing better here every day

In fact, the 'Homogeneity and heterogeneity' in the US has moved all forms of equality
farther forward in a little over 200 years than most of the planet has in thousands.taken more
more and bigger strides for all humanity than any other place I know. remember, JMHO

 

[kayman23]

The truth sometimes hurts. The OP is correct and his observations are spot on. I've held back from commenting on this because I sometimes make controversial yet direct statements on this topic. I'll keep it reserved. People will hold these viewpoints of racial/ethnic minorities within the gay community. They want the hunky white gay guy, and will ignore others like black and latino men. Even on JUB, mediocre looking white guys get more attention than black or latin men (this is my own observation!). People can argue all they want, but the truth is the truth.

That's all I will say on this matter.

As far as Medusa, I am certain that Medusa isn't either of those posters, refuj. The MO is completely different.

But oh so true, and on that note....

 

[Telstra]

Yes, the countless people for many years part must have been sandwiched in there in the middle of the OP, right around that bit about hobbits and dildo abuse.

Remember?
I don't read and skipped alot !!

 

[kayman23]

There is a racial hierarchy with gay and bisexual guys and at the bottom of it are Asians and blacks. Some Latinos far a little better but only if they are "more European" in appearance.

I've come to the conclusion over the last 5 years that the majority of white gay and bisexual guys especially here in North America (to a certain extent Australia but that another convo), just doesn't get it. Most either reveled in their privilege or oblivious to the realities of being a non-white and gay/bisexual.

My advice to non-whites that are non-racial specific about dating is this, if you want to be with a white guy you are better off looking for those that aren't originally from the US or most of Canada for that matter. In other words, look for a European that is equally yoked as yourself intellectually and culturally. You might find a few here domestically in the US that are open to actual interracial dating (not fetishization), but they are few and far between for you. Oh yeah, they are most likely in places like Toronto, Washington DC, New York, the San Francisco Bay Area (not San Francisco "the city" proper rather the region as a whole), New Orleans, or Miami. I would say here in Atlanta, but lord knows that would be more a lie than the truth as racially segregated the LGBTs are here...

Personally, I'm non-specific about race, but find myself with time wanting more to settle down with another black American male. I don't have time for all that aforementioned shenanigans and racial politicking mentioned above. In addition, I'm dating somebody (he is black) that makes me happy, thus have no reason to be looking at the moment.

 

[blackbeltninja]

There is a racial hierarchy with gay and bisexual guys and at the bottom of it are Asians and blacks. Some Latinos far a little better but only if they are "more European" in appearance.

What is the likelihood that this is simply because there are more out white guys than the other racial groups (assuming there are)? As a result, they tend to stick with what they know and with what they experience more often, which is guys like them.

I mean, would we think it racist if on Manhunt Japan (for example) the Japanese gay guys were top of the pile? Or Brazilian guys in Brazil? Has this research been done on a site which has a majority non-white clientele? I think perhaps the data might be skewed, frankly.

-d-

 

[bankside]

I mean, would we think it racist if on Manhunt Japan (for example) the Japanese gay guys were top of the pile? Or Brazilian guys in Brazil? Has this research been done on a site which has a majority non-white clientele? I think perhaps the data might be skewed, frankly.

-d-

I think showing that Japanese gay culture was just as racist would not be a way of disproving the findings here. Maybe a way of reinterpreting them: "It sucks to be an ethnic minority in any part of the world, because the majority tends to form a wall of exclusion around itself." Well -- hooray??

 

[bankside]

Our second observation was that thet next two highest races on the desirability heirarchy were there in a negative placement. They were there for fetish reasons more than anything. Black men were fetished and objectified predominantly by white men, who themselves identified as bottoms. Even on sites or with profiles which sought friendship and chat, black profiles were approached strictly for sexual purposes. Asian profiles were equally objectified by white men who identified as tops who wanted to dominate, use, and own the Asian men. In both cases, there was a general disregard for the ethnic minority's preferences, opinions, feelings, and a detachment from getting to know the gay person as a person.

I'm curious to know if you did (or how you possibly could) control for the way minority profiles present their own ethnicity as part of their strategy for connecting with other guys.

For instance, I notice a lot of BlkTop, BlackDude, BlkInches, 9InchBlk, ThickBlack, BiBlk… black this black that… to which my reaction has always been you don't say…. It's obvious that many black people draw attention to or promote their blackness as part of their strategy for finding a hook-up or a boyfriend. Same thing with the number of AZNbtms or azn this azn that… There is a large portion of ethnic minority posters, particularly in the two "objectified" groups, who emphasize their ethnicity in a way that white guys generally do not.

Possibly because that's what works? Here's my theory: assume most people are just looking for a partner. A small group of white men are intrigued by a stereotype of being dominated by a black man or being in charge of an asian man - historical baggage, who knows, but it's there. But a "small group" of white men means there are more than enough white guys looking for this compared to the much smaller black or asian population in north america. It may be only one in ten white guys looking for that kind of relationship, but it's enough for every black guy to have his inbox filled with desperate "fuck me with your big black rod" emails, and every asian guy to have to wade through "I'm going to pin down your sweet asian ass etc…."

Enough to be an obvious trend to asian and black singles. Enough to be eye-rollingly obvious. And, the fun thing is, if you're asian or black, and just looking for a quick hook-up, then it's a really easy angle to work if you're horny and looking for a date on Saturday evening. So people work it, because they're just looking for what works too.

It reinforces what goes into the profiles of asian and black posters, they know there is at least one reliable audience, which amplifies the interest from fetishists, and alienates the white guys just looking for a boyfriend. The actual fetish fantasy probably wouldn't come across as that icky if it was just two white guys who enjoyed some kind of dominant submissive fantasy. But after a while, it ceases to be fun for the minority population who really just started out looking for the same things everyone else did on that site. Seems like a pretty fucked up racial dynamic, so they call it. And then the 9 out of 10 white guys who don't have that kind of fetish interest all say "WTF are you talking about? That's not how white people are. That's not what I'm looking for…you're imagining things! You. Are. Over. Sensitive."

And then it's 8 pages of popcorn about white privilege and "it's not racist" and bla bla bla.

 

[blackbeltninja]

I think showing that Japanese gay culture was just as racist would not be a way of disproving the findings here. Maybe a way of reinterpreting them: "It sucks to be an ethnic minority in any part of the world, because the majority tends to form a wall of exclusion around itself." Well -- hooray??

Exactly. In other words, "it's not just you." I'm not saying it's right; I am saying there is actually more than one big bad wolf out there.

On the plus side it would make us nasty white bastards not the only racists out there. And then, as if by magic, these sort of threads would vanish, along with cut/uncut and all-bi-guys-are-evil-because-I-said so. /hopespringseternal

Personally, I'm tired of being the bad guy just because nobody has bothered to think beyond their own situation for more than 2 seconds before launching these sweeping statements.

-d-

 

[Medusa]

Oh for fucks sake, people. As a BLACK GAY MAN I can vouch for the OP, and I know that the OP's points are extremely VALID and TRUE. He's just SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT MANY GAY MINORITIES DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS.

I had to "deal" with online dating (and dating in the gay world in general) for nearly ten years...

He's not bullshitting us. Stop the petty arguing and back and forth. The shit is TRUE. If you're here to refute his findings...then fuck off, and stop wasting your time (on top of insulting people who really deal with this bullshit).



God dammit!!!!!!!1111111

Dont bother some of them are either oblivious on in denial. Here's a hug from a black woman. Try dating your own, or other gay minority men

 

[xbuzzerx]

Exactly. In other words, "it's not just you." I'm not saying it's right; I am saying there is actually more than one big bad wolf out there.

On the plus side it would make us nasty white bastards not the only racists out there. And then, as if by magic, these sort of threads would vanish, along with cut/uncut and all-bi-guys-are-evil-because-I-said so. /hopespringseternal

Personally, I'm tired of being the bad guy just because nobody has bothered to think beyond their own situation for more than 2 seconds before launching these sweeping statements.

-d-

Your comment was made entirely coming from a perspective that this topic or what anyone is talking about is "only white people in the U.S. do this to any degree." Japan is an incredibly racist culture. It's if anything decades behind the U.S. (being kind) on the issue of how non members of the mainstream (whites are an honorary exception for the most part) are treated socially in Japan.

Pointing out that there are other very racist cultures, especially if we have to primarily look for extremely homogenous cultures in order to make the comparison, isn't a vindication of racial prejudice in the U.S.

 

[kayman23]

What is the likelihood that this is simply because there are more out white guys than the other racial groups (assuming there are)? As a result, they tend to stick with what they know and with what they experience more often, which is guys like them.

I mean, would we think it racist if on Manhunt Japan (for example) the Japanese gay guys were top of the pile? Or Brazilian guys in Brazil? Has this research been done on a site which has a majority non-white clientele? I think perhaps the data might be skewed, frankly.

-d-

Yeah, it's one they know as much as the media here in the US is very diverse and inclusive about its visual portrayals of the actual diversity in this nation. Oh yeah, the first nation is known for its insular culture so its not applicable then the second is known for its diversity like the US, so it would be another faulty analogy. More of doesn't equate into "more familiar" because if that was the case why is that so many Western European states seem to elude this very problem in most aspects of its social interactions?

Your home country is also a good example to ask and mention in this very problem considering whites are minorities in South Africa...

 

[refujiunderground]

Reminds me of the now defunct Connexion.org. Had several White gay members calling people out for being racist and only preferring White people and twinks etc., they were really in your face about it; but their friends' list, personal photos of them offline with friends, youtube videos of them hanging out with friends etc. were virtually all of young, slim, White good looking men -- yet they lived in cities with diversity such as New York and Los Angeles.

don't we all know that person that claims to be against prejudiced, ready to call other people out and etc BUT yet harbor prejudices themselves, fronting like they and the people they're against aren't one in the same. can't stand people like those. they're not doing anybody any favor period. i got much respect for someone that just admits how they feel instead of hiding it.

 

[xbuzzerx]

LMAO Where did this come from? Thin air? The gay white men who call themselves liberal are actually more accepting than those who are gay republicans. I also seem to notice one dates gay white republicans and prefers gay white republicans... what does that say about consistency? Latinos and black men aren't on your list from what I recall.

The people I would say this about outside of CE&P can be counted on a fraction of one hand, but I think we all just need to accept that Jayqueer is completely defunct in the reality and reason department, and shaped entirely by a set of slanted, one-dimensional ideas that have been spoonfed into his brain from his upbringing, background and family. They almost never make sense and the only consistency to them is villifying anything corrupted by the taint of "liberalism."

 

[refujiunderground]

speaking of racism.

this has me busting out laughing.

look out for the newest wave that's about to sweep the world.

http://www.giftemezu.com/2012/08/white-man-turns-black-by-using-melanin.html

http://www.the-coli.com/locker-room/90068-man-inects-himself-melanotan.html

 

[blackbeltninja]

Pointing out that there are other very racist cultures, especially if we have to primarily look for extremely homogenous cultures in order to make the comparison, isn't a vindication of racial prejudice in the U.S.

Fair enough. However, this thread suggests that the institutional racism experienced by non-white US-based Mahunters from white US-based Manhunters is a pandemic and I'm not sure this is the whole story.

I'm also not sure how good a microcosm JUB (or any other online community) is in terms of worldwide queerdom, frankly - the lack of consensus on most topics which pop up in here speaks volumes as to how diverse (fractured, even) our opinions are, and assuming that the primarily American online presence on these dating and "lifestyle" sites is an accurate representation of the world at large is ill-advised at best.


Personally, I still wonder about the stats. People tend to be attracted to people like them - if not the bulk of us would be multiracial and/or in interracial relationships; I'm sure these numbers are on the rise, but I'm not sure they'll ever be the majority. I'm also fairly sure this attraction is genetic. Still, if the bulk of the members on these dating sites are of a particular ilk, surely this will result in the most hits for that ilk. If the proportions of each race which go online differ hugely from real-world figures of gay people, I believe that is where the problem lies.

-d-

 

[bankside]

Personally, I still wonder about the stats. People tend to be attracted to people like them - if not the bulk of us would be multiracial and/or in interracial relationships; I'm sure these numbers are on the rise, but I'm not sure they'll ever be the majority. I'm also fairly sure this attraction is genetic. real-world figures of gay people, I believe that is where the problem lies.
-d-

Really? Really?



Really?
In my experience that is not intuitive at all. I have seen diversity in three stages in Canada. Going from an all-white country to tiny minorities that integrate happily and deliberately because they came here to get away and there's no one else to hang out with. Followed by a greater inbound wave of minority cultures, which integrates less fully. Newcomers have more in common with each other, and there are enough to stay together. Followed by the dissolving of those groups into a more pluralistic community where people live, work, and socialise together -and date each other- and it really takes everone's effort to make a society happen. Understanding what people are getting into remains important. But similarity or matching is not a criteria.

I know this is an assumption but I wonder if your perspective is actually an artefact of the society you're in and perhaps more time in a more integrated and diverse shared society would change your observations not so much about society but about the nature of attraction itself.