My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

[youfiad]

The black and hispanic communities are also traditionally more religious than the general average.

What anti-gay sentiments most have in common in the U.S. is religion, not racial background.

That's entirely true, but that doesn't change anything.

 

[xbuzzerx]

That's entirely true, but that doesn't change anything.

It changes your initial assertion that views on homosexuality have any actual hard tie to race.

 

[youfiad]

No, they are not. I'm feeling lazy right now, but if I weren't I'd Google this and blast you with a bunch of links debunking this on the subject of Latinos ALONE.

Just stop peddling this now and do a little research before you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/us/justices-consider-same-sex-marriage-cases-for-docket.html?_r=0

First link I could find on google. I didn't read it. However, it was recent.

I did skim for keywords in the article and saw bits and peices that are consistent with my claims.

 

[dereperez]

umm five is quite a lot considering
each person met countless people for many years ??

Two things.

First: The OP did not mention many years...at all.

Second: There are too many variables that can confound the so-called "conclusion" or "truth". And even then...having a preference for one type or characteristic over the other is not "racism" by any stretch.

 

[youfiad]

It changes your initial assertion that views on homosexuality have any actual hard tie to race.

It has absolutely nothin to do with the skin color. It has to do with ethnicity. You pointing out the fact that they have black skin is trivial and irrelevent. (Yes, I'm being redundant)

 

[xbuzzerx]

It has absolutely nothin to do with the skin color. It has to do with ethnicity. You pointing out the fact that they have black skin is trivial and irrelevent. (Yes, I'm being redundant)

What I'm saying to you is: you claimed that given they should identify with the experience of discrimination, it's odd that more minorities aren't pro-gay-rights.

What people are pointing out to you is that, on the whole, they are more pro-gay-rights than whites. And the only reason that number isn't bigger is because of religion.

 

[youfiad]

What I'm saying to you is: you claimed that given they should identify with the experience of discrimination, it's odd that more minorities aren't pro-gay-rights.

What people are pointing out to you is that, on the whole, they are more pro-gay-rights than whites. And the only reason that number isn't bigger is because of religion.

I agee. Which is the same reason why many "white" countries are far behind in gay rights than American whites, blacks, latinos and arabs.

http://www.pewforum.org/a-religious-portrait-of-african-americans.aspx

I'm not too overly convinced that the numbers are solely due to religion, but it is a contributing factor. Black men tend to be far less accepting of same sex marriage whereas they tend to have similar numbers in religious affiliation
http://www.theroot.com/views/gay-marriage-views-and-black-gender-gap

 

[youfiad]

Man oh man... your argument is all over the place right now... it's a big mess.

Some Latin American countries have same sex marriage and adoption rights legal on the federal level. America does not. Argument debunked.

No it's not. My words are just being slaughtered, butchered, and hung out in awkward ways; a common accurance it seems on this site .

As far as your Latino comment. I didn't realize that it was so high. However, my other statements are extremely true. Pick and choose all you want, it doesn't bother me. Call my arguments fallacious, that's fine with me, but you're just avoiding the point.

I will give Obama credit though; he does have a way of swinging public opinions on social issues. Since he came out in support of same sex marriage (whether he is or isn't is a different topic). But since he has officially supported it (for the second time in political carreer), public opinions have increased significantly.

 

[youfiad]

Really? Because your statement also flies in the face of the fact that a lot of polls are finding that black people support same-sex marriage at a much higher rate than whites in a number of states (specifically red states or socially conservative rust belt states like PA).

So you've already been proven wrong about Latinos. What happens when you're proven wrong about black people as well? Are you going to keep moving the goalposts? "Okay, I'm only wrong about two things! But everything else I said still stands!" (even though there's really nothing left after that)

Everything else I said was completely valid. You can choose to accept it or not. No skin off my back

 

[youfiad]

Let me just set things straight. You guys attack me from every oriface in my body, find one thing that I said that was wrong, then claim a victory? Congratufuckulations!! So, get over yourselves, and stick to the topics, or just don't post. It's kind of annoying and pathetic, to say the very least.

 

[youfiad]

And for the other record, I can't defend myself against GiancarloC since I put him on ignore and can no longer read what he posts. So if I don't reply to him, that's why

 

[youfiad]

"Everything else"? The only thing you had left was Middle Easterners.

And you know, while I'm not disinclined to agree, I have to point out that I've never really seen any study on the attitudes of Middle Eastern Americans on gay rights, so basically the only one of the three groups you might have gotten right was likely based on conjecture.

And African/American. You can't forget the African American one. That has hardly been won.

 

[youfiad]

Oh dear lord. I just explained why that one's wrong!

Not really. You gave some random words without any numbers or sources.

That only flies in social science courses. In a science classroom, that's an F

 

[xbuzzerx]

Not really. You gave some random words without any numbers or sources.

That only flies in social science courses. In a science classroom, that's an F

You do realize this is a social sciences topic you meandered into? And you're now insulting everyone from that field.

 

[youfiad]

You do realize this is a social sciences topic you meandered into? And you're now insulting everyone from that field.

If people get insulted by that then they're too touchy

About this being a social science issue, sure, of course it is. I was merely making a joke. Social scientists still use numbers, and calculus even (my calculus book was awkwardly a social sciences book)

 

[xbuzzerx]

If people get insulted by that then they're too touchy

About this being a social science issue, sure, of course it is. I was merely making a joke. Social scientists still use numbers, and calculus even (my calculus book was awkwardly a social sciences book)

Not at all. My reaction to that sort of comment comes from a lifetime-thus-far of the bias from people in the hard sciences field that everything in the social sciences is just fluff, basketweaving or making up whatever opinion you want on the basis that you can't apply clinical testing with every variable controlled to complex social phenomenon. That does not, however, mean that you cannot apply the scientific method, hard numbers, stats, and measurable variables and reach conclusions based on wide preponderance of evidence-- but it does mean you can never possibly have clinical trials for something as complex as 'racism' or 'prejudice' or 'social attitudes.'

If it wasn't your intent to make that sort of implication then my apologies. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time I'd heard that sort of a bigoted, dismissive attitude from someone in the hard sciences about everything in the social sciences, as if it's all just baseless opinion and so everyone has an equally valid claim or opinion on it.

 

[youfiad]

Not all of it is fluff. However, I do agree, we do often think that some of the stuff, and conclusions are fluff. The good social sciences are purely logical, or mathematically supported, or both. I have run into my fair share of social pseudoscience though; (I had to sit through a two hour lecture on sexism). Not that I disagree with some of the claims, but many of them I found to be utter shit (apprently it's sexist to call a woman a girl but it's not sexist to call a man a boy) <---- Social power sctructure bullshit. Of course you can apply the scientific method to social issues, and it is done very well, very often. However, it is also done, equally often, with horrible implementation. For me, the worst part is the statistics that is done in social sciences to back claims. (which is the reason I tend to stay away from numbers because they are often obtained in biased ways with the distinct intent to back claims). It's done more often than I like in the hard sciences too. That stuff is thankfully filtered through in the big scientific journals though.

I tend to be more accepting of the social sciences mostly because I was a liberal arts major before a hard science major. I really like sociology and psychology, however, I don't think some of the popular beliefs are very accurate to reality but that they actually have a more political sway.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Well if you're looking at it that way, the main problem with your theory is that an overwhelming bulk of people on the planet still, even with the increase in mobility and transportation, don't wind up more than 100 miles from where they were born. You can't point at the continuance of a majority of mono-racial couplings on the planet and say "well, that's just natural preference obviously" when most people on the planet only see people that look like themselves on a day to day basis, and the great majority of them won't ever leave their country or even their region.

I would still think that during the ages of great exploration where there was plenty of cross-pollination occurring, there would be more evidence of it than there is currently.

Likewise with times of conflict - Alexander's empire spanned half the globe. So did Ghenghis Khan's. Khan's was 30 generations or more ago; and Alexander's 1500 years before that. These guys operated on the principle of rape and pillage. Where are the descendants? A massive army comes in and kills the men and impregnates the women, I'd have thought it would be quite obvious in later years. And yet it doesn't seem to have been; at least, not in terms of appearance. Perhaps the evidence is more at a sub-cellular level - different enzyme isoforms and so on.

As I said, I'd be interested to see what it looks like in 1000 years' time.

-d-

 

[Taralen]

All that time could have been used on useful studies, was used on what 98% have done. Use a fake dating profile.

Going back on this racism/interracial dating in the gay culture, I'm going to reveal all the secrets. lol.

White guys love to flirt, especially to more masculine looking GBM. They won't go up and approach and ask the guy out, but he will simply flirt. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but c'mon man. Let's be friends.

Since I lived in Toronto and Los Angeles, I can only speak for those areas. Usually in the west hollywood area, it's a lot of S&M crap going on. Gay bear/hipster culture is very interracial. Same with the twink. Reason as to why I love LA. White guys can't keep their eyes off me. I know back east in Atlanta, D.C., Brooklyn, the same can't be said.

In some sad cases, If you are a black/asian guy, the white guy will not want to be seen in public with you. Everything will be behind closed doors at his convenience. Occasionally he will take you out to lunch or dinner or to the movies and shit like that, but that's once in a blue moon. He will probably never introduce you to his white friends or family and usually it's late night early morning rendezvous in his bedroom.

I completely agree with another poster that said minority gay men, especially gay black men need to seek men from other countries. My boyfriend was born in Croatia and is Croatian/Italian and with a student visa he migrated to Los Angeles in 2010 to transfer in UCLA where I dropped out of.

He is now an American citizen . and he is the love of my life and strangely enough I'm the first black guy he's been with. In these eastern European countries, they are hardly ever any black men. Usually in western Europe there is a big black population though.

I might add more, but that's all I'm gonna add for right now. No disrespect to the OP, but all this was a waste of fucking time and usually gay interracial action that does happen is like I said, behind closed doors and isn't really advertised. It isn't important. I have my man and that's all that counts. I'm attracted to all races, just happen to be a black guy who is with a white guy.

 

[TheBigDSergey]

you pretty much are saying things that some of us know because we experience it on a daily basis. i myself know this off the bat even when i was a closet case because i would notice how strange some of the gay guys who happened to be white would act whenever they would come around us when my homeboys and me would happen to pass by them on some stuck up shit. racism is real. if you aren't white in the lgbt community, you pretty much are going to be overlooked by damn near everybody. it's basically the way the whole culture is run. you pretty much have white guys on the magazines, models that are white, on the damn gay club flyers and etc. white guys are supposedly the "representatives" of the lgbt community and everybody else is just brushed to the side as if we don't exist. sure you might see an asian gay community or a black gay community but they're nowhere near as strong as the white gay community because everybody sticks together and you have some powerful heads that have influence on the world outthere. that white supremacist ideology shit is real, i don't care what anybody says. it runs the world and that's fucked up if you ask me.

then you have these folks that simply don't get it when you make threads like these and they happen to be white. they pretty much try to dismiss this shit as if they know how it feels to be in the next person shoes when they never ever will experience it. that's the honest truth. i'm just sick and tired of seeing folks basically being prejudiced and the whole nine themselves, racist, sexist and even homophobic towards themselves then trying to play the victim card because they're being discriminated for being gay. how can you feel sorry for an asshole?

This post ^ pretty much sums it up, but I will add a little more.

What's sad is my situation. I pursue guys of all races, as I find all races at least somewhat attractive, as any mature man does. Do I *lean* towards some races over others? Sure! I lean more toward other black guys, as well as Latinos.

But! I do not shut out white and Asian guys. Indeed, the racism starts when you start shutting out entire races without giving individuals from said race chances as PEOPLE.

Anyway. I get rejected by non-black guys because I'm black... but I also get rejected by other black guys because, and I quote many of said black guys: I "don't act black".

That crap's just as racist as the white, Latin, etc guys who don't talk to me because I'm black! Apparently things like my storm spotting/chasing hobby, my love of riding my moped and my scooter for transportation rather than driving, and my love of role-playing games (all three of these have been cited in the "arguments" of people claiming I don't "act black") somehow justify race-based rejection.