My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

[hylas]

More interesting is the anger already seen in the thread (...) to adopt a angry victim mentality is to guarantee marginalization. One might rally sympathy or a small following for a radical fringe identity, but the winning strategy is constructive engagement

yeah, why do them POC have to be so angry about racism? if they could only, like, chill the fuck out about it already. would make things so much easier.

easier for whom, i wonder.

fortunately, we heave people who may not be the target of racism, and therefore dont know how it feels or what it is like, but still seem to have a lot of expertise about how it should be dealt with... and are not shy about sharing their wisdom. so lucky!

[/sarcasm]

as for your long-winded and fancy-worded attempt to point out how the experiment is flawed: when i read the OP, what i see is a white guy putting himself in the shoes of a POC, and describing his experiences. yeah: hook-up sites dont represent the entire gay community... hook-up sites invite objectification... hip-hop culture is anti-feminist (huh?)... beyonce is successful and polular (huh?????)... all of which is relevant how exactly? accoring to the OP, the white profile gets more and different responses than the otherwise equal black profile... accross the board. which corresponds with my personal experience. no science, no statistics, just sharing experiences and observations. maybe you should take that as food for thought, instead of defensively trying to relativize it.

 

[kayman23]

Oh, where is my fiddle to play it while reading that long-winded dribble about "how angry and violent those damn coloreds are" and "how this experiment is flawed by the experimenter's confirmation bias"? Yeah, coming from the poster with a confirmation bias as broad as the day is long. Boy, don't you have you love those types and their predictable responses (with pretty window dressing).

Uh oh, I think we have began to threaten something of privilege with this thread...

*FLIPS MY HAIR AND LAUGHS*

 

[Apollo]

You don't date Black Men so what's your point?

huh? When did I say that?

 

[JayQueer]

I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

ta world lands full a educated zippas ans pantys

apes walk 2 feet ans apes no a walk 2 feet

if a world awsum supa tulips world ova a 21st century no figa out 1001 thang turd out nose
take trip where a dinosaurs live

now planet earth it a thang

ya killin it wit ya awsums obvious ons repeats

thankyou

 

[umjreon88]

I want that emoticon! Teach me!

 

[umjreon88]

Would you date me because I look and sound exotic, and where I come from, you think we still live in zinc houses and speak a foreign language (that can be made fun of). Or, for my personality?

Maybe the mainstream media has us believe that the ideal beauty is a man with perfect aquiline nose, sparkly blue eyes, spotlessly shaved/trimmed face and a megawatt smile. Maybe that is why us ethnic minorities seem to fare much less than Caucasians?

JayQueer, I don't think that South Indians fare any worst than East or South East Asians to be honest. I've had less luck getting hit on than my British Indian friend when we go out.

 

[Benvolio]

I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

Do East Indians enjoy themselves more when they are together? Do you feel less comfortable in a group of whites? I think most people enjoy being with people of the same background with whom they have more in common; language, slang, values, problems, humor, in short, culture. It is not racism or hostility to others, and should not be seen as such. It does not help that many minorities are hypersensitive or prickly. Whites often feel that they have to be super careful because almost any comment can be interpreted to have a racist aspect. The OP's tight wire between racism, objectivization and fetishization is an example. Many minority members take courses in black history and the like which teach them to see racism where whites may not see or intend it. But it and their response drive the wedge further.

- - - Updated - - -

I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

Do East Indians enjoy themselves more when they are together? Do you feel less comfortable in a group of whites? I think most people enjoy being with people of the same background with whom they have more in common; language, slang, values, problems, humor, in short, culture. It is not racism or hostility to others, and should not be seen as such. It does not help that many minorities are hypersensitive or prickly. Whites often feel that they have to be super careful because almost any comment can be interpreted to have a racist aspect. The OP's tight wire between racism, objectivization and fetishization is an example. Many minority members take courses in black history and the like which teach them to see racism where whites may not see or intend it. But it and their response drive the wedge further.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well said, Hard up1, but you should leave open the possibility that the preference for whites is NOT necessarily because they are here the dominant culture. People are attractive if people think they are attractive. It is subjective, but there are some characteristics which are widely thought to be attractive. Are blonde women with nice breasts considered more attractive in Japan or China or other countries where they are not the dominant culture? Are lighter skinned Indians in India considered more attractive? Perhaps it is in part that lighter are more rare. There may be cultures where young people are not considered more attractive, but in most of the world young is more attractive. Nicely formed breasts make a woman more attractive for most men. Broad shoulders and narrow waists on men are generally considered more attractive. Some of this may be hard wired as related to health, reproductive ability and ability to protect and provide.
But, some characteristics are widely considered to be more sexually attractive, unrelated to social or economic factors, such as the "dominant culture".

No. In areas of the world undominated by the "dominant western beauty standard", including parts of India and parts of Africa, lighter skinned people are not considered more attractive as any kind of universal human norm, and in fact, in parts of India the beauty standard is the reverse of the west: large-built, curvy women of dark skin are the beauty standard.

There are little snippets of true statements without proper context throughout your post, but on the whole what you're saying is that a global or national culture embracing a particular beauty standard in its advertisements or imagery has absolutely no effect, and that everyone is simply selecting for the same universally more appealing traits. Nearly all of the traits that do have a function pertinent to successful childbirthing/evolutionary survival do not belong to any one particular race and in fact many of them (wide hips for example) are not part of the dominant western beauty standard.

 

[refujiunderground]

I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.

when i talk about racism in the lgbt community, i'm not just talking about in the dating department. i'm talking about everything since it's widespread.

 

[xbuzzerx]

not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.

Didn't you read his post? It's only when liberals who voted for Obama do it that it's a problem.

 

[refujiunderground]

to add on, the lgbt publications and media seem to isolate nonwhites and focus on the white lgbt population leaving everybody out. one of the biggest misconceptions that other people have about the lgbt community is that it's mostly or entirely white and honestly, i can't blame them because that's the way it's represented. it seems like the nonwhite lgbt population is underrepresented. i also notice that underrepresented groups in the lgbt community end up self segregating because they feel that they're left out of the main group. however, this itself ends up being a problem because nonwhite lgbt communities are NOWHERE near as strong or sticks together like how the white lgbt community is. there really is no means of support within their own communities so they turn to the bigger group which has the resources BUT @ the same time, the bigger group cannot entirely understand how it is for that person who isn't white.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't you read his post? It's only when liberals who voted for Obama do it that it's a problem.

hell no. he is way too predictable.

 

[umjreon88]

not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.

when i talk about racism in the lgbt community, i'm not just talking about in the dating department. i'm talking about everything since it's widespread.

I agree with you about the second paragraph. However, I think it's common even among caucasians and not just in terms of race but also age, phases of life, etc.

It is an issue that is constant in the LGBT community and we could only do so much to change people's behaviour. Until we learn to accept that we do have a part that seems to exclude people of other races in our social life, the community would always be like this. We need integration, not separation.

It's funny that people complain about not being able to get a caucasian lover/boyfriend/soulmate. Is it really that important? Then again, I do sometimes yearn to have a partner who is African/Caribbean -American.

Haha. However, I love every colour to the point that I'm colour-blind to things. I accept people for who they are and my friendship circle is a vast mix of people from all over the world!

 

[Benvolio]

Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.

Even presuming that the fact that manual labor outdoors has resulted in darker tans and people of elevated social class had lighter tans due to being indoors has created some kind of "global" preference for lighter skin, that would still be socially and culturally created. Not natural. It would in no way diminish that the social and cultural tools used to reinforce a notion of beauty are real, it would be an example of it.

 

[Rolyo85]

Well said, Hard up1, but you should leave open the possibility that the preference for whites is NOT necessarily because they are here the dominant culture. People are attractive if people think they are attractive. It is subjective, but there are some characteristics which are widely thought to be attractive. Are blonde women with nice breasts considered more attractive in Japan or China or other countries where they are not the dominant culture? Are lighter skinned Indians in India considered more attractive? Perhaps it is in part that lighter are more rare. There may be cultures where young people are not considered more attractive, but in most of the world young is more attractive. Nicely formed breasts make a woman more attractive for most men. Broad shoulders and narrow waists on men are generally considered more attractive. Some of this may be hard wired as related to health, reproductive ability and ability to protect and provide.
But, some characteristics are widely considered to be more sexually attractive, unrelated to social or economic factors, such as the "dominant culture".

Please spare us your thinly veiled "whites are just, like, better" innuendos. They're out of place ANYWHERE, but especially here.

I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

Well, JQ, regardless of race, whiners and "victims" are ALWAYS unattractive. Being brown is pretty much the least of your problems, and frankly, your rant would have had much more credibility, hadn't you somehow managed to bash "them evil Obama-voting liberals" again...


---------------------------

As for the OP, as was already pointed out, the sites selected simply aren't a good representation of the gay community. Of those, Grindr is the only one with ANY relevant personality diversity, and even there a good 70% are just assholes looking for a quick fuck.

Frankly, this type of research would benefit a LOT more from dating sites like Ok Cupid, where personality is the key factor for communication. Not that I doubt for a second that racism exists, it's just that going on a trashfest place like Manhunt and then come up with the brilliant conclusion that people there are trashy, seems a little... predetermined.

 

[Benvolio]

At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.

 

[refujiunderground]

Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.

are you motherfucking serious?

 

[refujiunderground]

At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.

you can take this statement as well as your other one you stated and shove them both up your ass. go take this to stormfront.com or whichever place tolerates racist shit like this.

 

[xbuzzerx]

At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.

are you motherfucking serious?

LMAO! Did I really just read that top quote? Ben, seriously, did you just imply blacks all carry Rastafarian hairdos and Indian guys all look like devout Sikhs or something, and they should stop if they want white dates?