NAACP passes resolution blasting Tea Party 'racism'

[rareboy]

I am fascinated reading about this kind of stuff; particularly how many posters view the issue solely through their own narrowly focused lens.

It baffles the rest of the world that many in the US are still so unabashedly racist; that somehow there is still no reconciliation with the idea that having founded a vast portion of their economy at one time through the sale, forced transportation and enslavement of free people, there should be no consequences of that action.

While it is not surprising that after a century following the abolition of slavery of systemic and institutionalized racism in large portions of the 'freest nation on earth', there are millions of people who can't get past the problems of an integrated society, do Americans not also realize that this ongoing argument amongst themselves often undermines their moral credibility in the eyes of other nations and people?

Time to accept that there are still tens of millions of Americans, including their political leaders, who believe that anyone of a different colour or ethnicity are inferior to the European races. Time to realize that a century of systemic racism has led to unfortunate consequences.

Time to realize that a nation as great as the US must move beyond this racist past and not keep trying to institutionalize and enshrine it in ideology again.

Because if America can't do this, it will surely eventually collapse again in disarray.

It is sad to some of us that this even is a thread on CE+P and that it has generated some of the intensely partisan responses it has. We have Laika spinning this like an old pro, immediately going for ad hominum attacks against the leader of the NAACP, deflecting the issue of this story by trotting out his new hobby horse and we have some lamenting that this would never be happening if Hillary had won....you all get the drift.

Is this really the stuff of substance that occupies Americans?

A lot of us think the country and its people are better than this.

 

[NickCole]

I am fascinated reading about this kind of stuff; particularly how many posters view the issue solely through their own narrowly focused lens.

It baffles the rest of the world that many in the US are still so unabashedly racist; that somehow there is still no reconciliation with the idea that having founded a vast portion of their economy at one time through the sale, forced transportation and enslavement of free people, there should be no consequences of that action.

While it is not surprising that after a century following the abolition of slavery of systemic and institutionalized racism in large portions of the 'freest nation on earth', there are millions of people who can't get past the problems of an integrated society, do Americans not also realize that this ongoing argument amongst themselves often undermines their moral credibility in the eyes of other nations and people?

Time to accept that there are still tens of millions of Americans, including their political leaders, who believe that anyone of a different colour or ethnicity are inferior to the European races. Time to realize that a century of systemic racism has led to unfortunate consequences.

Time to realize that a nation as great as the US must move beyond this racist past and not keep trying to institutionalize and enshrine it in ideology again.

Because if America can't do this, it will surely eventually collapse again in disarray.

It is sad to some of us that this even is a thread on CE+P and that it has generated some of the intensely partisan responses it has. We have Laika spinning this like an old pro, immediately going for ad hominum attacks against the leader of the NAACP, deflecting the issue of this story by trotting out his new hobby horse and we have some lamenting that this would never be happening if Hillary had won....you all get the drift.

Is this really the stuff of substance that occupies Americans?

A lot of us think the country and its people are better than this.

Racism in America is more complex than you describe, which is a pretty good description for how it's generally understood and everything you say is true, but there are several dirty little secrets about racism in America.

Here are just a few. It might help foster understanding if others here added to the list of dirty secrets about racism - things we don't generally acknowledge that secretly keep it well nourished and thriving when, as you point out, it should have withered on the vine years ago.

First of all, most Americans believe I'm not racist and my buds aren't but he is and over there she is too. Of all the prejudices here, and we have many, racism is probably the most open, the most secret, and the one about which most people are self-deluded.

Secondly, black prejudice against whites, though justifiable as a result of oppression, feeds the monster of racism and division.

Third, some blacks use racism as a rallying cry because it serves a short-term purpose. Obama does that. This thread highlights an example of it. It fans the flames of racism, and of our divisions, rather than fostering understanding.

 

[chatolandia]

I hate when people that condem racism get the whole "Flaming the flames or racism" statement

It is a great argument for censorship and to, once again, sweep the issue under the rug.


I do think that if the Tea Party movement wants to continue growing and organizing, they must make a strong stand against the racist elements within its organization. Otherwise it will be continued to be perceived as a white folks movement with the occasional token person of color...

And that is not good for a movement that is trying to galvanize everyone in this country.

right?

 

[NickCole]

I hate when people that condem racism get the whole "Flaming the flames or racism" statement

It is a great argument for censorship and to, once again, sweep the issue under the rug.

Depends on when and in what context people condemn racism.

If Reverend Wright does it consistently in his church throughout the year, that's a principled stand. When NAACP does it after many months of Tea Party events, but when none have happened recently and it's now election season, that's suspect. Especially since ObamaCo has a history of playing the race card, even if there's no legitimate basis, to demonize opponents.

And your complaint of censorship is totally unfounded. Nobody's censoring NAACP or anybody talking about it this week; in fact it's been all over the cable news programs even though there's really no there there, just people jawing about racism.

Calling people out on disingenuousness is not censorship.

I do think that if the Tea Party movement wants to continue growing and organizing, they must make a strong stand against the racist elements within its organization. Otherwise it will be continued to be perceived as a white folks movement with the occasional token person of color...

And that is not good for a movement that is trying to galvanize everyone in this country.

right?

The Tea Party movement will never galvanize everyone in this country and they'd only be watering down the tiny drops of power they have if they tried.

It's a radical movement (radical by today's standards), and inherent in the power of any radical movement is that they don't try to please everybody.

The media covers them, Republicans use them for their purposes, Democrats use them for their purposes, and Tea Partiers feel like they're making a difference and their concerns are being paid attention to.

Meanwhile corporate America has much of Congress and Obama by the balls, and more than ever decisions that use our power and our money are made to advantage corporate America. The Tea Party is a side show.

 

[palemale]

ObamaCo playing the race card. Gee, Nick, have any more straw men you'd like to trot out. You have such a one track mind, it really impairs your critical thinking.

Did it ever occur to you that the NAACP only has a convention, at most, once a year? Therefore, they couldn't have passed a resolution at their convention earlier because they didn't have one.

Furthermore, your statement that black prejudice feeds racism is classic blaming the victim and not based on any facts. Prejudice against any group for any reason is wrong. Black prejudice against whites is such a negligible issue (I won't even call it a problem) that to raise it in this context is ludicrous. It is not even on the radar, except to the extent people trot out Reverend Wright to score political points.

Ignorance fans the flames of racism. This country's disgraceful history of bigotry is the fuel that keeps it burning. Luckily, the vast majority of young, white people, indeed young people in general, do not have the racial hang ups that older Americans have.

 

[NickCole]

Furthermore, your statement that black prejudice feeds racism is classic blaming the victim and not based on any facts. Prejudice against any group for any reason is wrong. Black prejudice against whites is such a negligible issue (I won't even call it a problem) that to raise it in this context is ludicrous. It is not even on the radar, except to the extent people trot out Reverend Wright to score political points.

I'm not surprised you wouldn't call black prejudice against whites a problem, but it is. A big problem that most Americans don't dare talk about. And not talking about unpleasant truths creates more problems or at least deepens the ones already there.

And catchphrases like "blaming the victim" don't help either. Shuts down discussion, so you may "win" an argument by shaming timid people into silence but it closes another door and that's been happening between people for many years with racism. The whole victim thing is a problem. I've studied history and psychology, facilitated countless victim groups, and been victim several times myself, and have learned a thing or two about it. First of all using the term victim for anything other than distinquishing between victim and perpetrator in a given circumstance is not helpful or healing. Individuals or groups defining themselves, or being defined, as victim keeps them down. So once anybody goes from being a victim in a specific event or circumstance to defining themselves as victim, they become a participant in their own oppression. That plays into Eleanor Roosevelt's comment that "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent." You can beat me, you can denigrate me, you can ridicule me, you can steal from me, betray me, dismiss me -- do anything that makes me a victim, but if I let myself be defined as a victim who forever after can't be blamed for my own response to my circumstances as a result of being victimized, that's my own doing and diminishes me. Being victimized, certainly as blacks have been, is damaging and it's very very hard to have a positive response that results in a healthy outcome -- but that doesn't mean people who are victimized have no responsibility in the outcome.

As I said I've been victimized so believe me I learned this from experience, very often people who are victimized over a long period rather than an isolated incident, and totally the innocent initially, end up responding to victimization in a way that exaserbates the problem and perpetuates one's own victimization. And there's no question this has happened with blacks and racism. You can call that blaming the victim, but the notion that a victim can't be at fault for anything is wrong and can ultimately be destructive to the victim. Rather than respond to victimization any way we feel like because victims can't be blamed, the smarter thing to do is decide what end result we want and formulate a response that'll help bring that about. And I can tell you that black prejudice against whites, while perfectly understandable and justified, is a harmful response that's been trickling fuel into our nation's brand of racism for many years.

Ignorance fans the flames of racism. This country's disgraceful history of bigotry is the fuel that keeps it burning.

If you think our disgraceful history is the fuel that keeps it burning then you're saying there's no hope for it ever diminishing. I say what keeps it burning is a continued infusion of fuel, including powerful voices like ObamaCo spreading the poison that people like President and Mrs. Clinton are racist. Wasn't even a Republican doing that, it was a Democratic candidate for President.

Luckily, the vast majority of young, white people, indeed young people in general, do not have the racial hang ups that older Americans have.

They have their own.

Although my generation had and has plenty of racial hangups, I have been amazed at some of the things I heard from 20/30 something white gays who were supporting Obama - things that 20/30 something black gays were not at all surprised to hear when I asked them about their experiences with whites their age.

The problem of racism is not getting better, it's just changing. And that's our own fault because we're not being honest and forthright about it.

 

[Corny]

watch this, try not to rage:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heL2Czeraw[/ame]

read this

Williams, however, is doing little to refute the notion that there is racism in the Tea Party movement. Last night, the proud Tea Partier wrote a blog post mocking NAACP president Benjamin Jealous. The post takes the form of a fake letter to Abraham Lincoln, in which Jealous asks the former president to repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments (and to reinstate slavery) because the "coloreds" don't agree with the Tea Party's version of "freedom."

http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201007150012

stil with me?

watch this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtH7vH4yRcY[/ame]

 

[NickCole]

This kind of stuff isn't new. For instance:

One doesn't justify the other but it places it in context.

We are a nation of ill mannered people who are outraged at other people's rudeness.

 

[palemale]

I'm not surprised you wouldn't call black prejudice against whites a problem, but it is. A big problem that most Americans don't dare talk about. And not talking about unpleasant truths creates more problems or at least deepens the ones already there.

And catchphrases like "blaming the victim" don't help either. Shuts down discussion, so you may "win" an argument by shaming timid people into silence but it closes another door and that's been happening between people for many years with racism. The whole victim thing is a problem. I've studied history and psychology, facilitated countless victim groups, and been victim several times myself, and have learned a thing or two about it. First of all using the term victim for anything other than distinquishing between victim and perpetrator in a given circumstance is not helpful or healing. Individuals or groups defining themselves, or being defined, as victim keeps them down. So once anybody goes from being a victim in a specific event or circumstance to defining themselves as victim, they become a participant in their own oppression. That plays into Eleanor Roosevelt's comment that "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent." You can beat me, you can denigrate me, you can ridicule me, you can steal from me, betray me, dismiss me -- do anything that makes me a victim, but if I let myself be defined as a victim who forever after can't be blamed for my own response to my circumstances as a result of being victimized, that's my own doing and diminishes me. Being victimized, certainly as blacks have been, is damaging and it's very very hard to have a positive response that results in a healthy outcome -- but that doesn't mean people who are victimized have no responsibility in the outcome.

As I said I've been victimized so believe me I learned this from experience, very often people who are victimized over a long period rather than an isolated incident, and totally the innocent initially, end up responding to victimization in a way that exaserbates the problem and perpetuates one's own victimization. And there's no question this has happened with blacks and racism. You can call that blaming the victim, but the notion that a victim can't be at fault for anything is wrong and can ultimately be destructive to the victim. Rather than respond to victimization any way we feel like because victims can't be blamed, the smarter thing to do is decide what end result we want and formulate a response that'll help bring that about. And I can tell you that black prejudice against whites, while perfectly understandable and justified, is a harmful response that's been trickling fuel into our nation's brand of racism for many years.





If you think our disgraceful history is the fuel that keeps it burning then you're saying there's no hope for it ever diminishing. I say what keeps it burning is a continued infusion of fuel, including powerful voices like ObamaCo spreading the poison that people like President and Mrs. Clinton are racist. Wasn't even a Republican doing that, it was a Democratic candidate for President.






They have their own.

Although my generation had and has plenty of racial hangups, I have been amazed at some of the things I heard from 20/30 something white gays who were supporting Obama - things that 20/30 something black gays were not at all surprised to hear when I asked them about their experiences with whites their age.

The problem of racism is not getting better, it's just changing. And that's our own fault because we're not being honest and forthright about it.

You wrote a whole lot, but said nothing. Spewing pablum isn't argument. In everything you said, you never gave a single example of how black prejudice against whites is such a problem it fans the flames of racism. Racism against African Americans is not the fault of African Americans.

Anytime anyone acts on a prejudice to the injury of another, it is obviously a problem for the person injured. Racism against African Americans was a huge problem because it led to their enslavement, a Civil War, denial of basic rights, segregation, lynchings, etc. How has Black prejudice against whites become a problem?

The only problem that I see is that isolated instances of black prejudice are exploited by public figures to gain some political advantage. That's the real problem.l

 

[JB3]

^ What about the seemingly knee-jerk response these days by certain people (including many in this thread) that criticism of Obama is racially motivated? What about reactions by blacks that things done by white people are being done because they're racist?

You're lying to yourself and to us if you deny that these problems exist. Its something that EVERYBODY, white/black/whatever need to work on.

 

[NickCole]

You wrote a whole lot, but said nothing.

Agree with it or not, I said a great deal.

Dismissing it as nothing is just your inability to deal with what I wrote.

Spewing pablum isn't argument. In everything you said, you never gave a single example of how black prejudice against whites is such a problem it fans the flames of racism.

As I said it's one of the dirty little secrets that complicates the issue of racism and keeps it fueled. I'm not going to argue over examples; if you refuse to see it's there, you're not going to be enlightened by examples, you'll merely defend and protect what you believe.

If, as I pointed out, racism were merely the result of what's happened in the past then by now either it would have withered on the vine or it will always be the same. And nothing is always the same. Change happens, and when we don't make conscious healthy choices to make things better oftentimes the change that happens by default is situations like the continuation of racism.

Racism against African Americans is not the fault of African Americans.

Some behavior by some African Americans adds fuel to racism against African Americans. And in this case, by "some" I mean a lot. Anti-white prejudice has become ingrained in many blacks, which impacts many elements of our interaction including racism.

Anytime anyone acts on a prejudice to the injury of another, it is obviously a problem for the person injured. Racism against African Americans was a huge problem because it led to their enslavement, a Civil War, denial of basic rights, segregation, lynchings, etc. How has Black prejudice against whites become a problem?

It fuels racism. Fuels division. Fuels misunderstanding and resentment. And, like pus festering, anger and prejudices that're left unchecked, secreted, become worse and infection spreads.

The only problem that I see is that isolated instances of black prejudice are exploited by public figures to gain some political advantage. That's the real problem.l

I recognize that's the only problem you see, and you're revealing your own self-delusion.

We have real and substantive problems in the dirty little secrets like whites refusing to admit racism is in some way a standard part of their thinking (in America virtually nobody is racist, it's always somebody else) and that we must be vigilant about working within ourselves to change that rather than allowing it as acceptable, and blacks being racist against blacks, and prejudice from blacks against whites that, no matter how justified and understandable, contributes to racism.

And then, yes, we have public figures who use the complex elements of racism to advantage themselves.

 

[palemale]

Anti-white prejudice ingrained in many blacks? What utter nonsense. You must know very few black people, because I never encounter it and I am around African Americans every day. I don't encounter it among Latinos or Asians either for that matter. To the extent black people I know or encounter hold anti-white prejudices, they certainly never act on it. Of course, I treat every person I meet with respect and without condescension, so that may account for our differing perspectives.

I recognize you don't want to argue over examples. Why provide facts when unsupported opinion works just fine.

I'm not trying to shut down discussion by accusing you of being racist. I don't think you are. But this view is something I hear from white people who live in the suburbs and never see a black person except when they go to the mall.

 

[NickCole]

Anti-white prejudice ingrained in many blacks? What utter nonsense.

That's an amazing blindness you're able to maintain.

Totally objectively, any group that was forced into slavery and treated as badly as African Americans were, and suffered the oppression and indignities and unfairness blacks did for many decades after slavery, and the unequal treatment most still encounter, all this over several generations while children grow up with parents dealing with it and then become parents themselves and their own children grow up watching them deal with it, would be fully insane to not feel a prejudice against those who perpetuate the mistreatment and enjoy the privileges and opportunity denied blacks. There are some rare human beings who manage to clear such a prejudice from their heart or wherever it lives, but they are indeed rare.

For anybody objectively looking at issues of race in America, the question is not whether or not anti-white prejudice exists in blacks but what does it mean.

But as I've said that's a dirty little secret in America.

You must know very few black people, because I never encounter it and I am around African Americans every day.

That old attack doesn't get me. Never has.

To the extent black people I know or encounter hold anti-white prejudices, they certainly never act on it.

Wait. So even though you just said it's "utter nonsense" and you "never encounter it" despite your daily interaction with blacks, you now concede blacks have anti-white prejudices "to the extent," but they're so perfect and wonderful that they certainly never act on it.

I couldn't better illustrate this part of the problem if I tried. Thanks.

Of course, I treat every person I meet with respect and without condescension, so that may account for our differing perspectives.

Of course you do. Because you're perfect and wonderful too.

I'm not trying to shut down discussion by accusing you of being racist. I don't think you are.

Good.

But this view is something I hear from white people who live in the suburbs and never see a black person except when they go to the mall.

Do you? Run into a lot of those white people from the suburbs who never see a black person, do you? Where do you run into them and how do you discover they never see black people except at the mall?

 

[palemale]

That's an amazing blindness you're able to maintain.

Totally objectively, any group that was forced into slavery and treated as badly as African Americans were, and suffered the oppression and indignities and unfairness blacks did for many decades after slavery, and the unequal treatment most still encounter, all this over several generations while children grow up with parents dealing with it and then become parents themselves and their own children grow up watching them deal with it, would be fully insane to not feel a prejudice against those who perpetuate the mistreatment and enjoy the privileges and opportunity denied blacks. There are some rare human beings who manage to clear such a prejudice from their heart or wherever it lives, but they are indeed rare.

For anybody objectively looking at issues of race in America, the question is not whether or not anti-white prejudice exists in blacks but what does it mean.

But as I've said that's a dirty little secret in America.

George Bush said he could see into Vladimir Putin's soul. I guess you have the same gift. This is your opinion, not based on any objective evidence, studies or personal experience. It's also nonsense.

It reminds me of something an Israeli psychoanalyst once said. "The Germans will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz."

That old attack doesn't get me. Never has.

Not an attack, just an observation.

Wait. So even though you just said it's "utter nonsense" and you "never encounter it" despite your daily interaction with blacks, you now concede blacks have anti-white prejudices "to the extent," but they're so perfect and wonderful that they certainly never act on it.

I never conceded anything. I said I never encounter it, therefore I have no evidence. Thus, to the extent it exists (i.e. if it exists), I'm unaware of it. Obviously, there are African Americans who have anti-white prejudices. One will be able to find individuals in any group who may have some degree of prejudice. That's a far cry from implying it is so widespread as to have an impact on white racism.

Do you? Run into a lot of those white people from the suburbs who never see a black person, do you? Where do you run into them and how do you discover they never see black people except at the mall?

I grew up in the suburbs and go there all the time, both to visit family and friends and for business.

 

[BostonPirate]

it's interesting...

I saw an interview with Mr Jealous, who obvously is annoyed that the press is taing the one of 75 resoultions that they made and ignoring the rest.

he said that it's interesting that the teabagger apologists are using volume and subterfuge to distract from the point of the resolution.

I think his words were..." when you don't have the facts on your side you just yell loud enough to make up for your failure to see the reality in the pictures.

this thread has turned into a wide ranging discussion, and I am having a hard time reading the words NAACP or Tea in any of the last few posts... it kind of spins out at post 29.

While you guys are engaging in a vibrant discusion of race relations in america, it is not really on topic in this ON TOPIC thread.

perhaps we could split the thread that spun off into its own so that we can get this back on track.

 

[BostonPirate]

I want to say this clearly

Both Michael Steele and Barack Obama are in the NAACP. so this idea that the NAACP is carrying water for the president is not really getting the point of what is happening.

there are people, real people, some of them children, who are seeing this stuff on the internet and on television. They deserve to be taught that racism is unnaceptable. If the Teabaggers have taken the media (Fox) to do this, then the NAACP has the right to use its resources to respond to remind people that there are immoral ways of doing things and tolerating this within your ranks is as bad as doing it yourself.

It is noted that palin has said that racism is unacceptable, with a ramble about blaming the other people for a host of issues.

at least she took the time to speak the words.... racism is unnaceptable.

I would vote for my dog before I voted for Palin, but at least she did it.

also to get things back on topic...

what do you guys think of Gingritchs offer to mediate between the two groups? obviously he's pulling a Jesse jackson maneuver and coming in to personally capitalize on the moment, but do you think he can get the teabaggers to add civl rights for blacks as part of their agenda?

 

[rareboy]

God.

How fortunate many of us are to live in countries where racism is not an issue.

 

[BostonPirate]

This kind of stuff isn't new. For instance:

One doesn't justify the other but it places it in context.

We are a nation of ill mannered people who are outraged at other people's rudeness.

Europeans were accusing Bush of acting hitlerian when he started preemptively striking his percieved enemies. the vast majority of those images come from European protests...

now please lets refocus on the topic and if you want, we can take it back up here.

thanks everyone for by and large have remained civil in a very emotional topic.

 

[BostonPirate]

God.

How fortunate many of us are to live in countries where racism is not an issue.

america is built on immigration

it is part of having a diverse large population.

 

[BostonPirate]

the head of the tea party express posted this letter in response to the NAACP on his blog today

this is absolutely atrocious

Dear Mr. Lincoln

We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!

In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’.

The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.

And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.

Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?

Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.

Sincerely

Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person

this is bordering on insanity