Need for advice

[Stitch627]

I’ve been hanging around on this website for a while now, without really posting. But it may be time to change.

I need to talk and I hope it’s gonna relieve me. I feel like I have a kinda burden I can’t share with anyone. And I’m tired of it.

In 2 words, I would describe myself as lost and confused. I could talk during hours or write pages, but I’ll try to make it short and clear. To sum up, I am 25, never had any girlfriend or boyfriend (no comment I know it’s pathetic), though I think I’m pretty smart and kinda cute. So what’s wrong with me? That’s the question I’ve been asking to myself for too long now.

Growing up, my friends, and I’d even say anyone around me, began dating. Not me. Worse, today some of my friends have just got married. What the fuck?!? At the beginning, I thought that I had to be patient and wait my turn. The problem is that I have never met a girl I really felt for. Some girls were interested, but I wasn’t. They were great friends but that’s it. Sometimes I try to find what was missing and think I should have made an effort… So I’ve been thinking that I am too picky, romantic, or idealistic but also not self-confident enough, too introverted, lonesome, or shy, although I prefer saying mysterious or secret. It’s true that I do not open up easily. I’ve never been really close to someone because I do not let that happen. I always keep control. I don’t trust. I never fully disclose myself.

Then, I must confess gay porn really turns me on. I began “normally” with straight porn, but with the internet and its realm of possibility, I turned toward gay porn. Younger, I had a body complex, so looking at half-naked men was nice because they were what I wanted to reach. Today, I have changed my body, I’m working out; nonetheless the complex has not entirely vanished. And I still find hot guys existing. About porn, I would say my behavior is cyclical. After some weeks jerking off watching gay porn, when I can no longer stand what I am doing, my mind gets the upper hand back and I stop porn, turning off my desire at the same time… until I get too horny. What I have always considered (or wanted to consider) purely plastic curiosity may actually be more physical attraction. It’s also true that I don’t notice cute guys at school or in the street the same way as I notice beautiful girls.

On the other hand, I do not identify with the image of gays that you can see most of the time in the media and that is extremely stereotyped. It’s not what I am, what I want. But I end up wondering if this image wouldn’t be the truth. When, in a movie, I see a gay I could like, the role is actually performed by a straight guy. Even in the real life, the few gays I happen to know somehow match the stereotypes. But I may admit that the gays you notice are the ones who are noticeable precisely because they match those stereotypes. To try and find answers to my questions and have a broader image of homosexuality beyond stereotypes, I’ve also begun being interested in gay related topics, for example articles, TV shows about coming out or gay themed movies.

It’s not that I don’t like girls. I find some very beautiful (especially on TV or in magazines) but I’ve never been really attracted by one in reality. I have never felt this electricity, this alchemy. When I look at the others, I end up believing that I have a misconception of what I should feel. But at the same time, I think it’s so sad to lower expectations. But I perfectly imagine myself with a girl, and I’d like a family, to get married. It may be a straight view of life, the way we are programmed. And when I look at a movie with a love story between a guy and a girl, or a happy family, I think: that’s the real life, that’s what I want, I’m not different from the others, so why wouldn’t I get the same? Still about gay stereotypes, it seems it’s only about hook ups or open relationships. It may be fun in the short run, but what about the long run?

Today, I feel like I don’t live my life, as if I was empty inside. As if I had missed the train. As if I wasn’t on the same wavelength. As if I was a battlefield after the battle or an entirely white puzzle. I look at the others but I do not play their game because I do not know the rules. I miss the instructions for my life. I’m not blooming, really happy. I feel as if I was constantly wearing a mask. No one sees and knows the real me. But it’s not their fault. I do not even know who I am and what I want.

I recently moved to NYC from abroad for my studies (btw I’m sorry about my English mistakes). I wanted to go to get more independence, to be by myself, and maybe also to fly away. But I think it’s a great opportunity to figure out who I am, to make a fresh start.

But where to begin? On the one hand I think I should try to make out with a guy, but on the other hand it’s a big step. I’m fucking freaked out to take the plunge as well as tempted. My problem is that I think too much. It’s high time I do something. I also need to talk. But it’s extremely difficult to find someone to confide in. People you could trust are too close. Friends may be not close enough. You know that people will judge you and/or won’t understand. Moreover I’m not used to talking about so private thoughts. And even if you feel bad you get used to this situation. Even if your life sucks, you fear the change.

What if I’m wrong? What if I’m right?

One day, it’s clear, I think I’m gay. It would explain a lot but it’s hard to face
Another day, I think I was stupid the previous day, I’m misleading myself. I’m fucking straight; I only have issues with feelings.
The third day, I’m confused and do not know what to think
The last day, I bury everything deep inside of me and try to forget, fit in and fake

Sometimes I feel like I’ve built such fortifications that my heart has become icy, that I have no feelings. It’s so complicated… and even if it might appear clear for you reading all this, it’s absolutely not crystal clear to me.

Ok… I wanted to make it short… I failed, but I hope it’s not at least too confusing.

And congratulations if you’ve read everything!!

 

[UnderBiCover]

hey buddy it took a lot of courage for you to say what you did here - I for one applaud you for that - I think you took a very big step today just getting all these words down I bet you feel a little better now

I'm not a medical professional but some of what you say here sounds like you might have some social phobia issues - do you have any drop-in resources at the school you're attending? you may want to look into that - there are some therapies etc. that can help sometimes

also don't feel you have to apologize - you're not pathetic by any stretch of the imagination

not all gay or bi guys are stereotypically gay by any stretch of the imagination - gay/bi guys come in all shapes, sizes, flavors just like straight guys

there are some really nice guys here who you can talk to who will give you some insight & guidance - you certainly are not alone

 

[Stitch627]

I bet you feel a little better now

well, on the contrary, it has stressed me out

I'm not a medical professional but some of what you say here sounds like you might have some social phobia issues - do you have any drop-in resources at the school you're attending? you may want to look into that - there are some therapies etc. that can help sometimes

Is it the way I sound? personally I wouldn't talk about social phabia issues, it sounds too strong to me. I am neither 100% antisocial nor agoraphobic. I have some friends.

 

[Eagle653]

Hello, Stitch, and welcome to JUB (and to America too). I've moved this thread to the Coming Out & Relationships forum from the Freshmen forum because I think you'll get good advice here.

It seems that you're making a lot of changes at once, most notably moving to a new city and new country. You have done that, partly, to be free to discover who you are and to learn yourself. That's great, and you've made a good beginning.

It might help you to step back and take a deep breath and deal with one issue at a time. One issue is adjusting to New York; another is adjusting to school; another is adjusting to creating a new set of friends; another is figuring out your school program and then your career; another is figuring out your sexuality. Try not to get overwhelmed by all the sudden changes and demands on you.

If it is possible, it would be good to visit with a counselor at the school you are attending. A good thing about that would be that someone could, by guiding your conversation, get you to explore, with yourself, what's important to you, who you are attracted to, and what you want in friends and a romantic partner (male or female). These kinds of insights eventually come to you, but it's faster and less traumatic, to have a professional counselor guide you through that process.

On the other hand, I do not identify with the image of gays that you can see most of the time in the media and that is extremely stereotyped. It’s not what I am, what I want. But I end up wondering if this image wouldn’t be the truth. When, in a movie, I see a gay I could like, the role is actually performed by a straight guy. Even in the real life, the few gays I happen to know somehow match the stereotypes. But I may admit that the gays you notice are the ones who are noticeable precisely because they match those stereotypes.

As you go along, you will discover that few gays fit many of the stereotypes that are out there. I would bet that not many of the members on here do, either. Some of the everyday people you pass on the street, or sit next to on the subway, or sit to you next to class are in stable gay relationships. They don't advertise it; they don't wear a sign; they don't have the "typical" mannerisms. but they're gay.

Based on what you wrote, you probably are too. The first, and biggest, step is coming out to yourself. Before you can do that, you have to be sure that's who you are. Again, I think guided therapy can help you figure that out easily. Accepting it--actually being OK with it--is another matter entirely. But, first things first and, again, one thing at a time.

Again, welcome. You're asking all the right questions and thinking about all the right things. Give yourself time to think, and make mistakes. You will figure this out.

 

[Stitch627]

Hello,

It might help you to step back and take a deep breath and deal with one issue at a time. One issue is adjusting to New York; another is adjusting to school; another is adjusting to creating a new set of friends; another is figuring out your school program and then your career; another is figuring out your sexuality. Try not to get overwhelmed by all the sudden changes and demands on you.

you're right about all thoses changes, but I have been in NYC since last July, so I'm getting used to this city. I don't worry either about the school and the program. It's ok. And I already made some friends, even if I'm not against making new ones. I must however admit that i have to think about the future and also that living in an other country (it's my first time) is not always easy: a different culture, a different language, ..., maybe more difficult than what I had expected.

If it is possible, it would be good to visit with a counselor at the school you are attending. A good thing about that would be that someone could, by guiding your conversation, get you to explore, with yourself, what's important to you, who you are attracted to, and what you want in friends and a romantic partner (male or female). These kinds of insights eventually come to you, but it's faster and less traumatic, to have a professional counselor guide you through that process.

yes, maybe, I have already thought about it, but i'm not sure yet, if it's possible and if i'm willing to to it ... i don't know ...

As you go along, you will discover that few gays fit many of the stereotypes that are out there. I would bet that not many of the members on here do, either. Some of the everyday people you pass on the street, or sit next to on the subway, or sit to you next to class are in stable gay relationships. They don't advertise it; they don't wear a sign; they don't have the "typical" mannerisms. but they're gay.

yes, I know or at least I think so

The first, and biggest, step is coming out to yourself. Before you can do that, you have to be sure that's who you are. Again, I think guided therapy can help you figure that out easily. Accepting it--actually being OK with it--is another matter entirely. But, first things first and, again, one thing at a time.

the thing is that i have asked myself the same questions for a long time now, and I can't manage to be sure of the answer. I think this is my main point: how to be sure? you know, this afternoon when i was writing my first message, i was convinced that it was the right thing to do and now i'm stressed out and not as convinced anymore. I don't know why but I am. That's what I could call the boomerang effect. one step forward, one step backward.

 

[G-Lexington]

Welcome to JUB (and yes, America).

First off, there's no hurry. Don't feel the need to throw a label on yourself as quickly as possible. For now, you're "unsure - still working on it". Let that be your label.

Next off, why not take a break from porn for a bit? Not just gay porn - all porn. Masturbate using just your imagination. And let it go where it wants. If the thought of women is doing it for you right now, excellent - fantasize about women. If it's guys, killer - think about guys. If it's both, groups, aliens, monsters, robots - it doesn't matter. Just let it happen.

Thirdly, get to know more gay guys. Here on JUB, and in real life. I have a feeling once you see the vast diversty of homosexuals out there, it may help you make up your mind.

Lex

 

[KaraBulut]

Welcome to JUB and congrats on your post.

There are several things going on here but they seem to center around avoidance.

Overanalysis is really just a way to avoid action by engaging in analysis paralysis.

Inability to trust and confide in people? A great way to avoid intimacy.

Being overly picky? Another great way to avoid having to deal with your sexuality.

What is missing here is insight into your social behaviors. And that is something that group therapy does well when you're in a situation like this.

You might give some thought to working with a therapist- not to sort out your sexuality but to start by working on some of the issues that you have in avoiding emotional, physical and social interactions with other people. That will probably be the key to unraveling the situation.

 

[Stitch627]

If it's both, groups, aliens, monsters, robots - it doesn't matter. Just let it happen.
Lex

alien robots are so hot!!!

There are several things going on here but they seem to center around avoidance.

All you say KaraBulut is quite true and insightful, I must admit
Nevertheless I wouldn't say I avoid social interactions, but maybe emotional and physical ones.

and it seems you all think I should go to a shrink ... should I ??

 

[KaraBulut]

and it seems you all think I should go to a shrink ... should I ??

Not necessarily a psychiatrist unless your insurance plan requires you to see an MD.

A psychotherapist who is experienced in working with intimacy issues would do just fine.

 

[conrad]

For what it may be worth to you, I will spare you advice since it is my belief and experience that these are things that have to be worked through by the individual. One quality which I would wish for you to have in abundance is what is called serendipity, which is simply an openness to the very helpful unexpected surprises that come into one's life.

One can't really discover one's sexuality all by oneself. It was great to discover what the hand and one's cock could create in the way of pleasant sensation but most of us figured out early that somehow one's cock was intended for other interesting spots. At age fifteen I heard words like cocksucker and cornholer (that's the guy who sticks his cock in another dude's anus) and the very idea of such experiences were repulsive and at the same time strangely attractive. I had seen many very beautiful cocks but no vaginas at that age. Well, the new guy in town and I became friends the summer before our junior year in high school and then we became more than friends and before we knew it we had become what the world would have called homosexual lovers. I should add that we never stopped thinking of ourselves as regular guys, but thanks to the wonderful zone of privacy we had at his place our inhibitions melted away and we did what came naturally and seemed so right for two young guys who were truly bonded in friendship and love. We learned by doing and we did it all. I loved sucking his cock and gave rave reviews when he cornholed me; I was happy to be his cornholer a couple of days later.

I found that having discovered a part of my sexuality that I had never seriously considered before, I was open to the subtle hints I was getting from my college roommate that he realized that our friendship had moved to thepoint where sexual bonding would confirm the bonding in friendship and love that already existed.

Many of my friendship relationships never did have a sexual element. That too is alright because non-sexual relationships are also valuable. But, as friendships develop one does sense when they have the possibility of becoming sexual. I never seduced anyone, nor have I ever been seduced. But the sex that is firmly based in a relationship of friendship and love is truly fantastic and transforming. Casual sex strikes me as a kind of treadmill with no worthy prize.

My sexuality was more heavily weighted toward the straight side, but that does not diminish my respect for the love which can be between two men. I have always been grateful that I gave myself permission to love fully and sexually on both ends of my sexuality. I dislike the label of bisexual simply because I did not ever have sexual contact with a man when I was in a committed relationship with a woman. I prefer to think of myself as ambisexual; I know I can be sustain and be happy in a committed relationship with a woman, but I know I can also be happy and sustain a committed relationship with a man.

Get out among people (both women and men); they make life interesting. Don't be afraid of closeness; you can have lots of closeness which never reaches the sexual level. This was my strategy and I count my journey into my sexuality as a very happy one.

 

[Stitch627]

I find very interesting what you said Conrad, and you're right
You know, I think that's what I miss: to experiment
I'd like to meet someone and that things come naturally and easily between us, no need for asking questions. And see what happens, what I feel
I have to learn how to let myself go, which isn't that easy...

Justaguy, I'll to answer your questions:
1. Actually I don't really know ... not sure ...
2. About straight porn, I think it's existing but I also believe that most of the time guys are not really hot and girls are kinda slut. In one word I'd say straight pron may be more vulgar. In gay porn, guys are hotter. As for the genitals, it's difficult to say ... I mean you often see them together
3. You know I've always had the choice. On the internet, I can get what i want, and no one ever forces me to watch gay porn. Then, I must admit that I mainly turn to gay porn. Don't know why but that's the case ... except when I feel too abnormal. At that time it would be bi or straight porn. Not that straight porn isn't existing, but gay porn might be even more. But all that remains virtual...

Moreover, I wouldn't talk about guilt. I rather see things this way: sometimes I realize what I am doing or thinking, and I get afraid as if I was awaken, slapped in the face. And I say to me : Are you nuts? What are u doing? Stop it!

I mention this, because you say this It’s also true that I don’t notice cute guys at school or in the street the same way as I notice beautiful girls. . And to me, that gives an indication that you may not be gay ?

I will answer honestly. It may actually be the contrary. I notice cute guys. I sometimes see beautiful girls, but I don't know if I could say they catch my eye the same way and if it would be as often (not that I drool over each guy I can see). It's different.

But as Eagle said, its so hard to work out over the internet and by typing in things. I reckon a good option is a counselor of some sort, as the others have already mentioned, so that you can get some face to face interaction. A good counselor is experienced in asking you the right questions to try and work this thing out for you. You do sound confused, and so was I at your age, including the guilt trip

yep I totally agree, reality is way different from a computer screen
and once again the counselor ... maybe ... I'll try to find information about it at my university for the next term (in 10 days) ... but it frightens me

Justaguy, you also say:

Your feelings and experiences sound alot like mine at your age.

&

You do sound confused, and so was I at your age, including the guilt trip.

so, what did you do? how did you get out of this trap?

 

[Muscles4daze]

You think maybe you just have some serious self esteem issues and that's why you feel uncomfortable with women?

 

[hotatlboi]

As others have said, what your mannerisms are and whether you fit the "gay stereotypes" says absolutely nothing about whether you are gay or not. There's plenty of guys (myself included) who just act like regular guys, who you wouldn't necessarily know were gay unless we told you, but we still are.

If you are attracted to guys, then you are probably gay (or bi), it's really that simple.

 

[Stitch627]

You can find a little bit more about me Stitch in the thread called 'Former deniers ..' in this forum. Believe me, if you are gay, you don't want to do what I did and wait until your mid-forties to find out.

I'm gonna have a look at it. I've just begun but I will continue. It's always interesting to read about someone else's experience. And I can understand what you went trough.

But even at your age, I knew deep down.

that's what everyone says afterwards...

I think at the end of the day I reckon .... if looking at a guy makes down-below tingle, then you are either gay or bisexual.

I have definitively given up the 100% straight solution

Ok, on reading this, what if I said to you Stitch, that deep down, you know what the answer is ? What do you reckon ?

I would answer more or less what Muscles4daze said

You think maybe you just have some serious self esteem issues and that's why you feel uncomfortable with women?

and maybe also feeling issues...

If you are attracted to guys, then you are probably gay (or bi), it's really that simple

i wish it was that simple
but in my mind it isn't

 

[hotatlboi]

i wish it was that simple
but in my mind it isn't

well i can completely understand that because it wasn't simple for me at the beginning either. I only came to this realization later. good luck on figuring out yourself.

 

[GBirdie]

Wow... nice long post you had there..... hmm.... I'm really not sure what to say, but I guess I'll just say what I know and I think is right. I'm not some professional, and I'm younger than you are, so.... just some advice.

I think I've pretty much gone through what you're feeling before, though I think not to your extent, but there was a time when I was confused like hell, and in the end decided to forget about it and just give it time.... and for me, time told....

In your case, do you have any close friends? I mean really close ones.... I know, they don't come by easily.... but I think you should try to find a few, at least one, I guess??.... You definitely won't make/find one overnight.... you never know your old classmate you never used to get along with might be a good friend.... but I suggest you find someone you can wholly talk to, really.... even if it's not all, at least some.

For whether you're gay or bi or what else, I'd ask myself personally, WHAT are you interested in? What do you usually dream/fantasize/think of? Is there anyone you've had a crush/liked before? Is there anyone you 'admire' to the extent that you don't know what kind of feeling it is? There's a long list of questions that I asked myself.... again and again to make myself sure..... and although for me it's a god damn hard road to take, especially where I'm living.... but I realised and accepted that I was gay. It might be a different story for you, but at least you should come to your own conclusion.


That's all I can say for now. Haha. Cheer Up, chill out.

 

[buddy1970]

Do you want to see women naked? Do you want to see men naked? Do you want to see both naked?

For me, I always knew about the gay feelings. I have always wanted to see men naked, even before I had any sexual feelings. I have never wanted to see women naked, even when I wanted a girlfriend, and wanted to make out with girls (which never happened). That's how I know I'm gay and not bisexual.

This may sound Neanderthal, but I say:

If you only want to see men naked, you're gay.

If you only want to see women naked, you're straight.

If you want to see men and women naked, either together or on separate occasions, based on mood, diet, position of the sun, etc, then you're bisexual.

Too simplistic?

 

[tonyboy]

Well Stitch.... seems you've gotten some very fine advice in the resonses ^.

Justaguy makes much sense.... as do most of the others.

But I'm not going to reply to you here.... I'd rather write you in a pm... so that is what I will do.

You wrote a very fine original thread, a bit wordy but you realized that up front.

No prob though.... got to get these things off your mind. I'm not sure how your found jub or why you chose to open yourself up here, but it's damned fine that you did.
I doubt you will ever find a gay forum better to open in than JUB. There are many, many great guys here. The great majority would do anything to help you out in anyway they could.
ttyl in a different place.
tonyboy

 

[tallguy297]

Hey Stitch,

First of all mate... a belated welcome to JUB... and a massive pat on the back for finding the strength and courage to post what you did and then to continue to ask and listen and question. You've made some massive progress and while I'm sure it might seem a little intimidating right now it wont with with some time...

Mate... theres one overriding issue here that transcends all others. And thats getting this whole thing in perspective.

Your sexuality doesnt define you, change you or control you.

You are obviously a guy with ambition, with intelligence and with a drive and determination that others would envy. You have made choices and decisions in your life that many of us would fear and avoid at all costs, and yet you have cross those bridges to arrive at a new country with a new culture all because you knew you had too to succeed.

And the whole time your sexuality neither hindered you nor prevented others from befriending you, trusting you, loving you. You have more facets and layers than you can imagine - your smile, the way you laugh and cry, the way you protect and cherish... all of those things make you, you.

And its critically important you understand your own values, your own worth and how incredible you as an individual you are - right now. Because until you do that, until you value all of the things that make you you, you'll burden yourself with a doubt that in the end matters little to those who love and care for you.

Yeah, you might be gay. Or you might be bi. And while its too easy or flippant to say "so what" the really really important thing is that beleive in yourself so that you understand that it doenst matter or change who you are.

The fact that you might love a guy isnt important. Its the fact that you can and do love. The fact that you question who you love isnt important... its the fact that you know you want to.

You are at a place where so many of us have been. The questions and the denial can be so all-consuming and overwhelming. Loving someone of the same sex doesnt make you wrong, it doesnt make you some sort of freak, nor does it lessen you in anyway... its just another little layer in what makes you you.

And that Stitch from what I can see here is a guy who can be whatever he wants to be - including happy - and who deserves nothing less. You just have to have faith enough in yourself to be proud of who ever you are.

 

[Stitch627]

thanks for all your answers and congrats to those who have the strength to read everything!

all you say is pretty smart and quite true, really. And it's very interesting to read

In your case, do you have any close friends? I mean really close ones.... I know, they don't come by easily.... but I think you should try to find a few, at least one, I guess??.... You definitely won't make/find one overnight.... you never know your old classmate you never used to get along with might be a good friend.... but I suggest you find someone you can wholly talk to, really.... even if it's not all, at least some.

I'm not sure I have friends that close, I could confide in about that kind of stuff. Maybe one...
And I'm overseas so it makes things a little bit more difficult with friends I can have in my home country.
But I agree, having someone to talk to would be great. definitely.

For whether you're gay or bi or what else, I'd ask myself personally, WHAT are you interested in? What do you usually dream/fantasize/think of? Is there anyone you've had a crush/liked before? Is there anyone you 'admire' to the extent that you don't know what kind of feeling it is?

Well, there was this guy. He was my supervisor during a 5 month internship. He was 28, married with 2 kids, I was 21. I spent most of my time with him. I can say we became friends, we had lunch most of the time together, we made sport together (running, swimming, working out). We understood each other and spoke a lot. I was at ease with him and I think he was too. I believe I reminded him of himself younger. He was really great, I mean great body + great mind. He was exactly the kind of guy I would like to be and become. I was very sad to leave him and I think he was kinda sad too. At that time, I thought he was, not the father I'd like to have (because he was too young for the role), but the big brother. Now, I don't know anymore, maybe it was more than that. I saw him again quickly 2 months after I left, but I dunno, it was different.

Too simplistic?

maybe indeed, at least for the moment

while I'm sure it might seem a little intimidating right now

u couldn't be more right