NSA data mining

[T-Rexx]

I also think it is incredible that a sitting President lied to the American people blatantly.

The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.

 

[JayHawk]

The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.

That is, of course, one opinion. The thing most people fail to ever realize is that politics does have a set of courtesies. The one to cross lines first typically wins the day - that time. The problem is the lessons of manipulation are learned and then used by the other side in the next situation. So feel free to justify all you would like. That was the locust of waiting out public embarassment that used to signal resignation.

Wait till the democrats hold a majority portion of one legislative body and they want to stop the republicans. You can be sure many of these lessons from the obstinate republicans will be emulated.

 

[bankside]

The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

Almost certainly if he had refused to answer the question, people would have left it alone. The question was nosy. Answering it was a choice. So was lying about it.

The simplest thing for him to have done would be to have said "No comment."

 

[darden]

good read, NSA spying may cost cloud companies $35 billion

The industry group found that “56 percent of non-US residents were less likely to use US-based cloud providers, in light of recent revelations about government access to customer information.”

Moreover, some 36 percent of U.S. residents said that the NSA leaks have made it more difficult for them to “do business outside of the United States,” the ITIF report said.

 

[T-Rexx]

good read, NSA spying may cost cloud companies $35 billion

I don't think most people appreciate how much the lack of respect for human rights in the USA has cost the country financially.

Liberty is extremely profitable.

 

[T-Rexx]

Almost certainly if he had refused to answer the question, people would have left it alone. The question was nosy. Answering it was a choice. So was lying about it.

The simplest thing for him to have done would be to have said "No comment."

I disagree most emphatically.

If there is anything Americans care about, it is the sexual activity of celebrities. "No comment" is an answer that would have been blood to the sharks. The only "reasonable" answer was denial. The fact that Clinton preserved his presidency by denial supports this assertion, IMHO.

 

[Kulindahr]

good read, NSA spying may cost cloud companies $35 billion

It's costing them inside the US, too. One of the previews to a movie I watched just recently was a glowing description of how "the cloud" benefits everyone -- it got booed, with calls about handing your data over to the NSA.

 

[kallipolis]

The foolish thing would have been for Clinton to tell the truth.

He would have been vilified as a naively honest idiot, too stupid even to know how to cheat properly.

Elementary, dear Watson; I'm surprised that there are those here who believe that a sitting president should speak the truth on those matters relating to his intimate life....I'm also thinking of FDR who maintained a wife, and at least one mistress in the White House at the same time....and, Jack Kennedy whose sexual appetite appalled the very prim, and proper J. Edgar Hoover whose own intimate life was filled with queerer, than queer episodes guaranteed to impress the most experienced of holier, than thou hypocrites.

 

[JayHawk]

I disagree most emphatically.

If there is anything Americans care about, it is the sexual activity of celebrities. "No comment" is an answer that would have been blood to the sharks. The only "reasonable" answer was denial. The fact that Clinton preserved his presidency by denial supports this assertion, IMHO.

No the fact that he kept his presidency is a testament to the depraved nature of our system and the ease with which a media manager can manipulate the masses. We then saw that with Bush and are seeing it now with Obama. What that tells me is that people are lemmings. Of course, I already suspected that.

 

[T-Rexx]

^ The fact that Clinton kept his presidency is a testament to the fact that Americans don't really care about powerful people getting blow jobs from interns.

What we care about is performance on the job.

That is not "depravity" of the system. In fact, it is extraordinary reason.

 

[T-Rexx]

Elementary, dear Watson; I'm surprised that there are those here who believe that a sitting president should speak the truth on those matters relating to his intimate life....I'm also thinking of FDR who maintained a wife, and at least one mistress in the White House at the same time....and, Jack Kennedy whose sexual appetite appalled the very prim, and proper J. Edgar Hoover whose own intimate life was filled with queerer, than queer episodes guaranteed to impress the most experienced of holier, than thou hypocrites.

It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.

 

[JayHawk]

^ The fact that Clinton kept his presidency is a testament to the fact that Americans don't really care about powerful people getting blow jobs from interns.

What we care about is performance on the job.

That is not "depravity" of the system. In fact, it is extraordinary reason.

Yeah that is why Bush kept his job too... and Cheney. But you know it is a matter of opinion. If the news outlets tell the people to think something then typically they do. Consider the deception by fox and the most recent lost election. People believe the last sound bite.

 

[kallipolis]

It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.

Encore, mon ami.

 

[JayHawk]

It is my humble opinion that people who are attracted to positions of power tend also to be people attracted to exploitation of sexual power. The very thing that makes them great leaders makes them unfaithful partners.

In prudish, Puritan American, that is regarded as a moral "weakness."

In most of the rest of the world, it is human nature.

True everything from Germans to Italians to Indians and on and on have lost their jobs due to sex scandals BUT I would imagine they were cowtowing to American puritanism.... we are the THE leaders of all humanity. It is only natural they would be required to follow our greatness.... or not....lol

Which again is weird if you think of the politicians on our scene that had very open affairs JFK, POLK, Harding, but never left office or had some puritanical reaction. Wouldnt the puritanical reaction be more acute the closer to puritan times? Or did the media have a sense of decency for other human beings?

Then in the modern day when they had nothing left to shape opinion the media CHOSE that as a wedge issue to tell people how to think.

 

[kallipolis]

True everything from Germans to Italians to Indians and on and on have lost their jobs due to sex scandals BUT I would imagine they were cowtowing to American puritanism.... we are the THE leaders of all humanity. It is only natural they would be required to follow our greatness.... or not....lol

Which again is weird if you think of the politicians on our scene that had very open affairs JFK, POLK, Harding, but never left office or had some puritanical reaction. Wouldnt the puritanical reaction be more acute the closer to puritan times? Or did the media have a sense of decency for other human beings?

Then in the modern day when they had nothing left to shape opinion the media CHOSE that as a wedge issue to tell people how to think.

No more so than Washington, and Jefferson speaking endlessly of the rights of man while also, being slave owners.

 

[JayHawk]

Well that is obviously hypocritical but is a red herring when it comes to the discussion. The idea that some puritanical reaction is afflicting american politics and only American politics is juvenile and lacking any sense of history. It is pure and simple, a cop out.

I dont believe in some vast right or left wing conspiracy but anyone who thinks the media doesn't shape people's opinions and then make or break issues is simply confused. Sex scandals came about as political shapers in the public eye over the last few decades as people hold politicians to a higher degree of ethical behavior. that is mostly because we see their behavior. Previously scandals were only used by other politicians and the powerful to blackmail politicians. The change can be summed up as the information age. Still the media personalities and industry are the stewards of a lot of that message.

 

[kallipolis]

Well that is obviously hypocritical but is a red herring when it comes to the discussion. The idea that some puritanical reaction is afflicting american politics and only American politics is juvenile and lacking any sense of history. It is pure and simple, a cop out.

I dont believe in some vast right or left wing conspiracy but anyone who thinks the media doesn't shape people's opinions and then make or break issues is simply confused. Sex scandals came about as political shapers in the public eye over the last few decades as people hold politicians to a higher degree of ethical behavior. that is mostly because we see their behavior. Previously scandals were only used by other politicians and the powerful to blackmail politicians. The change can be summed up as the information age. Still the media personalities and industry are the stewards of a lot of that message.

Should we blame the media for the haliographic status of Washington, and Jefferson that the United States school classroom, and Hollywood movies have insisted should represent reality, when the objective history book speaks to the very real human frailties of these early American politicians?

 

[JayHawk]

I suppose not but is that the point of this discussion as it has morphed? The initial was a claim Obama should resign. My claim is that it hasn't gotten that bad yet and because of Clinton's very well demonstrated ability to ride out the storm and come out on top, Obama nor any other politician will leave office unless public opinion demands it AND law requires it.

So then the claim was made that puritanical american ideology is the reason such sex scandals mean anything and yet similar scandals have ousted figures across Europe and Asia. SO the current media DOES shape what we see and by that very editorial decision of what to produce they shape what becomes a matter and what does not. How that relates to hollywood and your down the nose views of america I have no idea. But tarry on....

P.s. The NSA just sold all your comments to the bankrupt greek government for two fishes and a bottle of olive oil. Oh but wait is that germane?

See the point is you cannot oust Jefferson with a movie in 2014 because he died long long ago. You can oust a President with the correct scandal. However, after Clinton NONE will leave office until forced. I suppose you could go back to Nixon but he was not going anywhere until forced by the legality of what countless others did before him in office. He just got caught. oooohhh look that one up too, another case of the evil american empire bugging its own people... or what is known as business as usual.

 

[kallipolis]

Should Clinton have been subject to so much scrutiny the result of a blow job given by an intern.....this is question, the dilemma for many Americans who believe that the presidency should stand, or fall on the exposure of a president's illicit sex life....I have merely reminded the reader that "canonised" slave owning presidents are also due equal scrutiny as result of their less than perfect behaviour hypocritically, speaking of the rights of man often while owning slaves.

Politicians prove that human behaviour does not improve when entering the White House.

 

[JayHawk]

Well of course it does not. Human beings are just that. However, reality rarely wins the day in politics. What you can convince everyone to believe is what matters. That may be wrong but it has been that way since Machiavelli wrote the Prince. (And likely well before) Why is that? Because a desire to believe and to follow is human nature as well

The Clinton affair occurred when public consensus was that our top leaders should not be getting some hanky panky on the side. The slave owning Presidents leadership occurred when slavery was very much the popular acceptable thing. That doesn't make slavery correct but in a discussion about the effects of terrible actions upon ones Presidency i fail to see the relevance.

Personally I believe we would get more people headed to office if the top job entitled one to endless stress relieving concubines.