Obama Delivers Ideological Knockout to GOP

[hotatlboi]

That's interesting because Obama is a lot like Reagan.

Finally, you've said something I can agree with.

Yes he is, not on policy but on his broad appeal to independents and the other side. He's the same kind of well spoken inspirational figure who attracts support from everywhere. He is a Reagan of the Democratic party.

 

[NickCole]

Finally, you've said something I can agree with.

Yes he is, not on policy but on his broad appeal to independents and the other side. He's the same kind of well spoken inspirational figure who attracts support from everywhere. He is a Reagan of the Democratic party.

"A friend to all is a friend to none." -- Aristotle

 

[hotatlboi]

well, I knew that wouldn't last long.

Yes, I know, Obama is deceitful little shit, everything he says is a lie, he's a manipulative asshole, he cares about no one but himself, he's a train wreck of a president, an abject failure in every sense. And last but not least, I should praise your magnificent perceptive powers which have revealed this to everyone. /sarcasm

 

[NickCole]

well, I knew that wouldn't last long.

Yes, I know, Obama is deceitful little shit, everything he says is a lie, he's a manipulative asshole, he cares about no one but himself, he's a train wreck of a president, an abject failure in every sense. And last but not least, I should praise your magnificent perceptive powers which have revealed this to everyone. /sarcasm

That's very funny.

Seriously, it's spot on and gave me a good laugh.

But here's the thing. I've never posted a lie about Obama or any attack on his personal life, and what I've said about him all along has turned out to be true. If he were delivering what his campaign that seduced all of you promised, you could say I told you so -- but he is failing, and has been from day 1. That being the case gives me no pleasure because he's my President, too, this is my country and my future, too, and my lifetime of retirement savings is swirling down the drain, too. But the truth is I have been attacked relentlessly for my observations and analysis for months and now Obama is proving me right. I saw this coming, and I explained how I saw it coming all along.

 

[TheTalkingAsshole]

Reagan can go straight to hell. He's probably there right now.

What the fuck was he thinking about with "trickle down" bullshit.

Fuck that. We've had enough brainless presidents for a life time. He started it and Bush ended it.

We're still paying for the race baiter's "trickle down".

So much hatred in so few sentences. Well done. And just had to throw "race baiter" in there, huh? As I would expect from the likes of you, you provide no arguments, just spew hatred and personal attacks. Boring.

 

[naked gent]

I love it when people say that tax cuts don't work. They refuse to learn from history. Hoover and FDR spent like crazy, and the US wallowed in misery for a decade. Japan passed eight "stimulus packages" in the 1990s, and it didn't help them a bit. Ronald Reagan cut taxes, and we recovered from one of the greatest disasters to strike our country, Jimmy Carter.

Reagan cutting taxes had nothing to do with bringing interest rates down or bringing inflation down which were the cause of the disaster you refer to.

And our economic performance in the 90's after Clinton raised taxes indicates that tax policy alone does not determine how strong the economy will be.

BTW Reagan spent like crazy too.

 

[NickCole]

And just had to throw "race baiter" in there, huh? As I would expect from the likes of you, you provide no arguments, just spew hatred and personal attacks. Boring.

Well the race baiter accusation is true.

Pretty evident in a 1981 interview Lee Atwater gave to Alex Lamis. It's in Lamis' book Southern Politics in the 1990s.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn’t it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps...?
​

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can't say “nigger”—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
​

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”
​

 

[hotatlboi]

That's very funny.

Seriously, it's spot on and gave me a good laugh.

But here's the thing. I've never posted a lie about Obama or any attack on his personal life, and what I've said about him all along has turned out to be true. If he were delivering what his campaign that seduced all of you promised, you could say I told you so -- but he is failing, and has been from day 1.

He's not failing, that's what you are so disillusioned about.

He's just getting started. It's WAY too early to pass judgment on his success or failure. So far, all I've seen is that he's implemented some good policies on treatment of prisoners and government transparency. We haven't seen any results from any of his major legislative agendas yet.

 

[NickCole]

He's not failing, that's what you are so disillusioned about.

So far he is.

He's just getting started. It's WAY too early to pass judgment on his success or failure.

I haven't passed judgment on the success or failure of his Presidency. I've passed judgment on his performance so far.

So far, all I've seen is that he's implemented some good policies on treatment of prisoners and government transparency.

Then you're only seeing what you want to see.

Not surprising.

We haven't seen any results from any of his major legislative agendas yet.

Maybe you wait until the results come in to judge legislation but a lot of us judge it as it's being presented, debated, passed, signed and implemented.

 

[hotatlboi]

So far he is.

How is he failing? He hasn't really done anything yet. LOL

I haven't passed judgment on the success or failure of his Presidency. I've passed judgment on his performance so far.

And you seem to think unless he instantly fixes everything and gets everyone to agree on something that means he is failing. Your measure of success is impossible. What will determine his success or failure is the outcome of his policies, the same as it was with Bush.

Then you're only seeing what you want to see.

There's nothing else to see. Those things are the executive orders he has signed, he hasn't done anything else besides his involvement with the stimulus legislation, and the wisdom of that remains to be seen imo.

Maybe you wait until the results come in to judge legislation but a lot of us judge it as it's being presented, debated, passed, signed and implemented.

Waiting until the results come in is really the only way to judge the success or failure of the stimulus plan. It's a radical step of almost unprecedented scope, and no one really knows if it's going to work or not at this point. We can guess, but we can't label it a failure yet, which is what you are doing.

 

[robertstar]

I thought it was thrilling that: (a) he spoke in complete sentences, and; (b) that he actually gave a press conference. Let's give the guy a chance fer chrissakes

A chance to do what exactly? Does the fact that he can talk in complete sentences and was willing to give a press conference to shill his stimulus bill mean that people should simply sit on their hands if they disagree with his plan or believe his bill will ultimately do more harm than good? Obama’s press conference was his chance and for a lot of people he wasted it and didn’t win them round to his economic plan.

But what Obama can do is send the Republican economic ideology to hell with it's memory lost founder Ronald Regan.

‘Reaganomics’ is not the what has caused this problem nor is it the model that the Republican Party currently adheres to and has stuck to for the past eight-years. The theories behind Reagan’s economic policies were not all about cutting taxes, it was also about dramatically reducing Government spending so that you could at the same time reduce taxes. What Bush has done is cut taxes and increase Government spending, so America has been spending more with less coming in and run up incredible debts and as (to say the least) flawed as that system is Obama’s/Democrat’s plan isn’t really any better because it involves a further increase in Government spending with no real sense of where any of this money is going to come from and when you’re already $3 Trillion in debt you can’t afford to do that.

 

[hotatlboi]

when you’re already $3 Trillion in debt

There probably wouldn't be as much opposition to the stimulus plan if we were only $3 trillion in debt.

 

[Lostlover]

So much hatred in so few sentences. Well done. And just had to throw "race baiter" in there, huh? As I would expect from the likes of you, you provide no arguments, just spew hatred and personal attacks. Boring.

I could give you a laundry list of my grievances with Reagan and what he's brought to this country.

But it sounds like you have his cock in your mouth and it's cut off your oxygen.

 

[Lostlover]

A chance to do what exactly? Does the fact that he can talk in complete sentences and was willing to give a press conference to shill his stimulus bill mean that people should simply sit on their hands if they disagree with his plan or believe his bill will ultimately do more harm than good? Obama’s press conference was his chance and for a lot of people he wasted it and didn’t win them round to his economic plan.



‘Reaganomics’ is not the what has caused this problem nor is it the model that the Republican Party currently adheres to and has stuck to for the past eight-years. The theories behind Reagan’s economic policies were not all about cutting taxes, it was also about dramatically reducing Government spending so that you could at the same time reduce taxes. What Bush has done is cut taxes and increase Government spending, so America has been spending more with less coming in and run up incredible debts and as (to say the least) flawed as that system is Obama’s/Democrat’s plan isn’t really any better because it involves a further increase in Government spending with no real sense of where any of this money is going to come from and when you’re already $3 Trillion in debt you can’t afford to do that.

As with the fist great depression, you have to spend your way out. Thanks to Bush, we will be in the hole for years to come. But now, at least, with Obama's stimulus we're digging a hole (stimulus) to get out of a hole(this depression).

Sounds redundant.

 

[NickCole]

How is he failing? He hasn't really done anything yet. LOL

He's failing by, on day 1, writing and signing an Executive Order banning lobbyists from his administration and that very day appointing a lobbyist to a high ranking position in his administration. Hypocrisy. Untrustworthy.

He's failing by allowing Pelosi and a rag-tag team of Congresscritters to structure and write the most important piece of legislation of his administration, and to let it be a patchwork mess rather than focused cohesive potent economic stimulus. Incompetent.

He's failing by allowing Pelosi (or being in cahoots with her) to sneak all kinds of social legislation into the stimulus package, legislation that should be separately debated and have hearings held and public discussion before being made into law. It makes a lie of his promises about transparency and ethics.

He's failing by allowing the Bush era state secrets doctrine to continue, when it's part of what's shamed the United States and Obama harshly criticized Bush for it during the campaign. Makes a lie of his Change meme.

He's failing by allowing a tax cheat to head the IRS and put together another bank bailout that, so far anyway (it's stunningly vague in detail), is very weak about restrictions and boundaries. After the first bail out turned out to be such a mess (which I said it was back in October when Obama and Pelosi championed it), this one might not be much better. And we're getting deeper and deeper into the hole.

I could go on, and what's amazing is we're only a few weeks in.

 

[NickCole]

Last night truly was Obama at his best. And the crucial part to his Q&A was attacking and abusing the broken Republican ideology to fix things by cutting taxes.

Despite Obama's attacks and "abusing the broken Republican ideology," the stimulus bill is full of tax cuts.

If that was Obama at his best that's very sad for the future of our nation and the world. Obama talks a good game but the reality of action is something different.

As Senator Harkin said yesterday:

Sen. Tom Harkin, a liberal Democrat from Iowa, said fellow Democrats had surrendered too much in a bid to appease three moderate Republicans who can ensure passage in the Senate.

"I think our side gave in too much in order to appease a few people," he said in a hallway interview in the Capitol earlier on Wednesday. He said Democrats should have dared Republicans to filibuster and "see what the public outcry" would have been. "I think the people are getting shortchanged."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-stimulus12-2009feb12,0,4074911.story

Obama allowed a weak bill to be further weakened to appease Republicans, after sending the mixed signal that Republican ideas are bankrupt and he's going to work with Republicans.

 

[Kirbster66]

The thing that bothered me the most was knowing that he has Paul Volker and Lawrence Summers on his staff.

The article says Volker intentionally engineered the recession during Carter's Administration, and Lawrence pushed for the abolition of the Glass-Steagall Act..

Why on earth would he take advise from any of these people?

Because any economist with brains knows that the so-called "Reagan Recovery" was due to the shock therapy that Volker initiated on the economy. Inflation (a major issue in the 70s) hasn't been a significant isue since.

Then you're only seeing what you want to see.

Pot, meet kettle.

Maybe you wait until the results come in to judge legislation but a lot of us judge it as it's being presented, debated, passed, signed and implemented.

Which is why people like you are examples of what's so wrong with politics today.

‘Reaganomics’ is not the what has caused this problem nor is it the model that the Republican Party currently adheres to and has stuck to for the past eight-years. The theories behind Reagan’s economic policies were not all about cutting taxes, it was also about dramatically reducing Government spending so that you could at the same time reduce taxes. What Bush has done is cut taxes and increase Government spending, so America has been spending more with less coming in and run up incredible debts and as (to say the least) flawed as that system is Obama’s/Democrat’s plan isn’t really any better because it involves a further increase in Government spending with no real sense of where any of this money is going to come from and when you’re already $3 Trillion in debt you can’t afford to do that.

HA! What a laugh. Spending increased under Reagan more than any administration up to that point. Reagan's policies increased the national debt by over $1 trillion, doubling in four years the debt that had taken over 200 years to achieve. Reagan's combination of tax cuts plus HUGE spending increases busted the budget. It took Clinton and his economic mastery of the repiglicans in congress to bring things under control.