On-Topic Obama pressed on failures at Univision forum

[Kulindahr]

wow --- you're favorably quoting a republican??? i'm impressed

Warren would be called a "RINO" by today's Republicans, who would view Eisenhower as a socialist, Nixon as an outright communist, Reagan as a sell-out, and Bush I as a traitor.

So, no, he's not quoting a "Republican", not by what that word means these days.

 

[HenryReardon]

""Okay. And again, what if your partner ends up in the hospital and you are DENIED visitation because you are not viewed as a legal partner? Or the variety of other medical and legal rights that come with marriage? ""

Two or perhaps three legal documents take care of that problem quite nicely.
If you think being married carries the same benefit, have a talk with Michael Schiavo. He can tell you otherwise.

 

[rareboy]

^ Up here in Canada, we have homo marriage. It has been a wonderful thing. It confirms at a societal level, the recognition of a relationship.

It, along with other civil rights granted to homosexuals has gone a long way to legitimizing homosexuality as a normal, healthy thing.

None of us really give a rat's as if you and your 'room mate' want to have a lawyer draw up all the contracts in the world so that you can continue to live in your closet with your head down, but do not denigrate those who are prouder of who and what they are and beleive that they are entitled to the same level of recognition by society.

 

[HenryReardon]

^ Up here in Canada, we have homo marriage. It has been a wonderful thing. It confirms at a societal level, the recognition of a relationship.

.

There you go again with that "societal" nonsense. Who gives a rat's behind about societal recognition. That urgent need for "societal" recognition/approval reveals a total lack of self-confidence in yourself and who you are. [Text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[gewhite3]

I don't think societal recognition is a need as much as it is a side-effect.

 

[andysayshi]

There you go again with that "societal" nonsense. Who gives a rat's behind about societal recognition. That urgent need for "societal" recognition/approval reveals a total lack of self-confidence in yourself and who you are. [Text: Removed by Moderator]

Henry, congratulations on finding happiness in a world where you are not equal to your fellow citizens, where "being discrete" is a reasonable way to lead your life, where suppressing your life and lifestyle is an acceptable way to spend your days.

For some of us, we will never find happiness like that.

We don't want to be hide our partners from our colleagues. We don't want to call our lovers "friends" when we check them into hospitals. We don't want to be denied access to our partner if they are sick or dying or dead. If we have a partner who is killed in military combat, we want the military to call us and tell us - not hear it secondhand from friends of our partners parents.

Your inability to recognise your own suppression is saddening. I am truly, deeply rocked by your statements in this and some other recent threads. Your mind is so closed to the freedom and happiness you may have found in life, but it is obvious you will never know it.

 

[rareboy]

There you go again with that "societal" nonsense. Who gives a rat's behind about societal recognition. That urgent need for "societal" recognition/approval reveals a total lack of self-confidence in yourself and who you are. [Text: Removed by Moderator]

Obviously we live in very different worlds.

Societal recognition of homosexuality as something as commonplace as heterosexuality is crucial.

Tell the teenagers who are struggling with their sexuality and finding their place in society that none of this matters. You know and I know that it does.

I may not choose to marry, but I recognize that the rest of the world knowing that I have that same right is enough. Without having to go through a lot of other legal hoops to create the equivalent rights as a family unit.

I have to assume that you and your companion are looking forward to the GOProud event.

 

[HenryReardon]

Henry, congratulations on finding happiness in a world where you are not equal to your fellow citizens, where "being discrete" is a reasonable way to lead your life, where suppressing your life and lifestyle is an acceptable way to spend your days.

Definition of DISCRETE (from the dictionary)


: constituting a separate entity : individually distinct


Suppressing my life? I've been out to the world for many years, and have never once denied who I am. Why? Because I know who I am and have never felt the need to prove it. And even as a teenager I never cared what other people thought.

It all comes back to self-esteem. Either you have it or you don't.

[Text: Removed by Moderator] I live in the real world.

 

[andysayshi]

Definition of DISCRETE (from the dictionary)


: constituting a separate entity : individually distinct


Suppressing my life? I've been out to the world for many years, and have never once denied who I am. Why? Because I know who I am and have never felt the need to prove it. And even as a teenager I never cared what other people thought.

It all comes back to self-esteem. Either you have it or you don't.

[Text: Removed by Moderator] I live in the real world.

Rather than debate semantics, why don't you address the specifics in my post?

We don't want to be hide our partners from our colleagues. We don't want to call our lovers "friends" when we check them into hospitals. We don't want to be denied access to our partner if they are sick or dying or dead. If we have a partner who is killed in military combat, we want the military to call us and tell us - not hear it secondhand from friends of our partners parents.

These are very real situations faced by real human beings, whose relationships are not recognised or valued by greater society. You may have self esteem in bucket loads, but the simple reality is that suicide rates among gay youth are dramatically higher than any other part of the community. Perhaps you had great support in your youth, or a great role model, or maybe you just have genes predisposed to self-reliance. Good for you. But the world is full of lots of different people, with all sorts of strengths and weaknesses.

It's great that you've found peace in the life you lead, Henry. But why do you want to suppress the recognition of equality for those who seek more?

 

[Rolyo85]

1. Societal recognition isn't - as self-hating homocons try to portray it - some pat on the shoulder by Big Brother and a "ok, you're now accepted". It's an atmosphere of acceptance which is nurturing for absolutely every aspect of who you are. A kid who struggles with his sexuality because he is taught by everyone around him how wrong and pathetic it is to be gay, will not grow in the same healthy way as one whose existence is constantly validated by the world around him. There is a reason why gay people are so often damaged, and it's not because of our "unhealthy lifestyle".

2. I am a foreigner. I want to build my life in the US. In the current economic environment, and if I'm not depending on blind luck (the green card lottery), the only sure way for that to happen is through marriage. I will never enter a convenience marriage because that's disgusting and demeaning, but I would like to know that when I find someone I want to spend the rest of my life with, there will be a way for that to happen, instead of the risk of having to leave the country hanging over us all the time. This is a real problem that many couples face.

3. The whole image of "Ha! I spit in the face of societal norms!" makes you tooth-achingly mainstream and boring. It's easy to paint people who want more than they are given - because the majority has it - as some pathetic (your word) conformists, but the truth is that it has been people like us who are the reason you can enjoy the freedom to spit in the face of societal norms, not be afraid to tell people you're gay and be all cool and independent.

4. Though of course, the fact that you don't see the "sham" in having to draw up paperwork to receive something straight people have without even thinking about it, makes me laugh at the irony. You don't have kids, do you? Or is having kids also pathetic and trying to fit in with straight people? Tell me, I am clueless when it comes to safely rebelling from inside the closet.

 

[rareboy]

[Text: Removed by Moderator] I've known a few homos over the years that were just like this. They almost literally lived only inside their own jobs and their house, only venturing out rarely.

I have a feeling that I have a lot more self-respect than Henry does and as you note; I'm not looking for a pat on the head from the 90% of hetero society that has written the rules.

I want the intolerance and the 'rules' that institutionalize homosexuality swept away. For me and for anyone else who is homosexual.

I don't want homosexuality to be viewed as some kind of means for marginalizing anyone when it comes to employment or deployment.

Homo marriage and allowing homos to serve openly in all walks of life is an essential part of creating a healthy community.

 

[Rolyo85]

[Text: Removed by Moderator] I've known a few homos over the years that were just like this. They almost literally lived only inside their own jobs and their house, only venturing out rarely.

I have a feeling that I have a lot more self-respect than Henry does and as you note; I'm not looking for a pat on the head from the 90% of hetero society that has written the rules.

I want the intolerance and the 'rules' that institutionalize homosexuality swept away. For me and for anyone else who is homosexual.

I don't want homosexuality to be viewed as some kind of means for marginalizing anyone when it comes to employment or deployment.

Homo marriage and allowing homos to serve openly in all walks of life is an essential part of creating a healthy community.

[Text: Removed by Moderator] To me it's not even about me all that much. It's about kids not being bullied to the point of suicide because society says that's ok.

 

[Just_Believe18]

That's fine to believe in your own personal circumstances, HenryReardon. If you don't want to get married, that's fine. Just please remember to support the rest of your gay brothers and sisters in our pursuit of having state and federal recognition of our unions.

 

[spooger]

Eisenhower called appointing Warren a big mistake... I wish spooger would take a look at what the Warren court did... those rulings couldn't be further away from what the modern republican party thinks.

oh, i well remember Warren's court ... and the call for his impeachment by the repubs themselves ... i was aware and voting ... it's not just some historical concept to me like it is to you ... i don't need your lecturing, thank you

i def agree that the republican party today is not at all what it was 25 yrs ago ... hell it's not what it was 12 years ago

and neither are the democrats ... both have been usurped by the far wings of each party ... while most of the electorate is moderate ... we haven't decided a presidental election by more than 4 - 6 %, while both parties become increasingly extreme in their views

that's why i am resentful of both major parties ... all of our politicians SUCK ... none do the peoples' business .. neither group is willing to work with the other .. lip service is all we get while society crumbles ... ALL FOR BULLSHIT politics and self aggrandizement from both sides

and please ... don't tell me one is better than the other

 

[HenryReardon]

. What this country needs is a real leftist party in charge. (and not a libertarian one either).

.

Evidently you want to live in a failed European-style nanny state. So move to France.

 

[HenryReardon]

That's fine to believe in your own personal circumstances, HenryReardon. If you don't want to get married, that's fine. Just please remember to support the rest of your gay brothers and sisters in our pursuit of having state and federal recognition of our unions.

I not that you said 'union' instead of 'marriage', and that is an important distinction. If the activist crowd had gone for federally recognized civil unions in the first place, it would most likely be a reality by now. Instead they chose the most radioactive topic they could and in so doing have set gay rights back two decades. The backlash is happening, and you have nobody but yourselves to blame.

 

[rareboy]

^ And this is when one could hardly help but think that the author is anything but a male, partnered, homo.


Backlash, smacklash.

Just because most of the US states are under the oppressive tyranny of the talibangelicals or morons, a lot of other civilized countries in the western world have found it possible to grant humans full equal rights in spite of their sexual identity.

Every time I read some post from some ostensibly 'gay' male that uses 'you people'...I could Breitbarf.

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

I not that you said 'union' instead of 'marriage', and that is an important distinction. If the activist crowd had gone for federally recognized civil unions in the first place, it would most likely be a reality by now. Instead they chose the most radioactive topic they could and in so doing have set gay rights back two decades. The backlash is happening, and you have nobody but yourselves to blame.

Seriously? Civil unions are the equivalent of telling black people that they can sit on the bus, but they have to sit in the back and give up their seat for a white person.

Civil unions are some half-assed bullshit that got tossed our way in hopes of getting us to shut-up and go away. I'd rather take 20 years to fight for equality instead of just settling for bastardized version of marriage. Hell, it took 20 years for DADT to get repealed, but it finally happened.

Yes, fighting for your rights doesn't happen overnight (just ask African Americans and women - 150 years later, and they still have to struggle too), but life isn't always about taking the quick and easy route.

If you don't want to get married, that's fine. No one is forcing you to. But a lot of us DO want to be able to have our relationships held as equal by the law, society and whatever God they believe in. If you're not going to help, then stay out of the damn way.

 

[T-Rexx]

I not that you said 'union' instead of 'marriage', and that is an important distinction. If the activist crowd had gone for federally recognized civil unions in the first place, it would most likely be a reality by now. Instead they chose the most radioactive topic they could and in so doing have set gay rights back two decades. The backlash is happening, and you have nobody but yourselves to blame.

Not true at all.

Civil unions are NOT the same as marriage. Gays united by civil union may not file joint income taxes. Civil unions are not portable. If you are civilly unioned in a state which grants such licenses, and you move to a state that does not recognize them, you have just become un-unioned. A marriage, on the other hand, is not dependent on one's geographical location. A widower in a gay civil union may not claim social security benefits when his partner dies. Even claiming your civil partner as a "spouse" on a legal document can make you liable to prosecution for fraud (a "civil partner" is not legally the same as a married "spouse").

As JB pointed out, it is fine if you want to live your life as an inferior. But please do not try to bring down the rest of us into your Republican hell. We think we deserve the same rights as other Americans.

 

[Just_Believe18]

I not that you said 'union' instead of 'marriage', and that is an important distinction. If the activist crowd had gone for federally recognized civil unions in the first place, it would most likely be a reality by now. Instead they chose the most radioactive topic they could and in so doing have set gay rights back two decades. The backlash is happening, and you have nobody but yourselves to blame.

Whoa. Hold on there.

Marriage is the legal term used by the government. That's why civil unions or domestic partnerships are inherently unequal. You're hung up over the word "marriage" like it belongs only to heterosexual people because of religious and cultural beliefs. Gays and lesbians want marriage equality not because they want the word "marriage" but because they want the government to recognize their spouse equally in the eyes of the law. If the government called all heterosexual and homosexual partnerships "civil unions," then we would be happy. There's nothing "activist" or radical about that. It's an issue of civil rights and social justice.

Again, if you want to maintain your legal contracts with your partner, that's fine. However, support the rest of us who want to opt for marriage equality with our spouses. Say for example you lived in Washington state and had a choice to vote for Referendum 74 on this November's ballot:

http://washingtonunitedformarriage.org

What would be your vote?