Obama Sinks as He's Vetted

[gaybot9000]

Rush is mild on the topic of feminists

"Mild"? I believe he COINED the term "feminazi" did he not?

 

[JOUPER]

The entire rant is so disgusting, after I cringe, I just want to take a shower. The entire tone coming out of Wright's mouth was pure trash and filth. And Obama called him "a great leader." What kind of judgement can Obama have if this is his idea of a great leader...a man who hates America. Obama's shallow condemnation of Wright was way too late and forced upon him to lack credibility.

Wright's consistent diatribe condemning the USA was simply an assault of my senses. I can't envision a potential U.S. President tolerated this for 20 years. I can't trust him now, and I can't imagine an America lead by this kind of person who existed in such a "cult-like" state-of-mind. If Wright is Obama's inspiration, then in what direction could Obama possibly be taking our country.

Obama is supposed to be about "hope" not hate and divisiveness. He almost sold me on this.

To answer your question on what was offensive about his sermon, Wright screamed and ranted about:

* In reference to 9/11: "America's chickens are coming home to roost"; "we bombed Japan...and never batted an eye." He spoke with glee as if we deserved the WTC to come down. He spoke as if our actions in bombing Japan was a contradiction to our reaction of the 9/11 events. WE were attacked by Japan and responded in kind...not related to Muslim extremists and 9/11 (where we were also attacked).

*He says we "treat our citizens less than human" and "kill innocent people". The U.S has one of the highest standards of living in the world. We spend billions on our own poor to try to lift them up....there reaches a limit when you're giving your poor a free education, housing, food stamps, and free healthcare. What more can you do? Why doesn't he lecture about some personal accountability. What innocents are we killing...is he referencing the war where Sadam killed far more than we've ever killed?

*He asks blacks to condemn America and bemoans "drugs, bigger prisons and the 3 strikes laws" as anti-black legislation and rather than sing "God Bless America" but instead "God Damn America" . Can't wait to see Obama's crime platform...and, again, accountability....don't do the crime and you won't do the time. And, yes, I want more prisons until the prison population decreases.

*Bill Clinton was "riding dirty with America just like he did with Monica". Gee, if this pleasant minister speaks so well of the first "black" president, I can't imagine what he said about the Republican leaders.

*The U.S. government released "HIV as genocide for people of color".

*Bashes rich white people and says we're under the influence of the KKK. Wright is still living in 1968, I can't tell you the last time I've seen the KKK or heard a non-TV discussion about the KKK. And if it's the "U.S KKK of A", then how the hell is one of his own black members on the verge of the presidency of said country.

*Ridiculing Powell/Rice/Thomas. I'm not crazy about these folks but Wright, as a black leader, should be pointing out the progress of black Americans...telling the children that one day you, too, can be in these positions of power and perhaps do a better job.

Simply wicked, hateful theological sewage.

And Wright points out the influential writings of Jim Cone (and I'm certanly no expert here) on TV several nights ago. Cone is the founder of black theology and this black liberation movement. They have some scary ideas....

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.​

This dangerous, perversion of the Gospel is the foundation of Trinity United Church of Christ. Cone said in a quote that "Trinity is where his theology is most institutionally embodied".

Now, I simply ask myself, "Since Obama clearly has subscribed to this for 20 years, do I trust in his judgement to lead this country for the next 4-8 years?" NO WAY!!

I respect people's right to worship this way. I respect people's right to vote for a leader who holds these principles. But it's not for me. This is all I've got to say on the matter.

Thank you SAMMIE,I feel the same way!

 

[Sammie13]

Thank you SAMMIE,I feel the same way!

You know, JOUPER, the thing is I feel really sad. The last 4-5 days have really been a political low-point for me. Somewhat similar to when it became obvious that Bill Clinton did in fact have relations with that woman. I didn't campaign for him to show such disregard for his position and reckless judgement. So, as I write this I'm ceratainly not gloating, and I didn't quiet have a horse in this race yet. But just last week, I finally had confirmed to a gay Republican friend of mine that I had finally crossed that line of uncertainty and would, in fact, vote Obama in November. He had finally sold me and the, two days later, this happened!!

I've posted on these boards more as a political by-stander or observer. I mainly started posting at JUB prior to Super Tuesday in Feb, hoping it would help me arrive at a candidate for the primary by stimulating my thought processes. I still, however, was unable to really find a candidate who fit my multi-party platform. I love politics and found most of the personalities in the '08 race very intriguing. I am more independent and moderate than in my younger days, but still always figured I'd come home to the Dems in November. Such will not be the case, however..

 

[construct]

Sammie, you need to sign off and read some James Cone. Jack is right. You've got it ALL wrong.

 

[construct]

Tell you what, Johan, You'll have about six months to think it over. And I hope sometime during that time before you make up your mind about who to support in the general election, you do Sen. Obama the courtesy of watching his speech--THE WHOLE THING.

 

[Shafted]

I don't understand your apparent glee, NickCole. For better or worse it's virtually certain at this point that Obama will get the nomination. Assuming you're a committed Democrat, don't you want the Dem. nominee to be in as strong a position as possible? What triumph is there in trumpeting his (transitory) vulnerabilities?

I think Obama came off as Presidential with his speech.
With the release of the White House notes, we see that Hillary was mostly up to what most of us thought she was: hosting tea parties.

Of coarse I should include her rather stupid healthcare reform bill and her praise of NAFTA.

Gawddamn, but the people in Ohio look really stupid now.

 

[gaybot9000]

The only reason she didn't get to do more was because she got burned. All the news outlets that have commented on this recognize that she was highly involved in that administration from day one. It was only after her very first initiative was rebuffed that she accepted the wishes of Bill's staff and agreed to become a wallflower, as is "proper" for a first lady.

 

[Shafted]

The media simply did not do their job on Obama. We should have learned about his character earlier on, but they have failed the public in which they serve and I am livid with them. People had a right to know that a presidential candidate spent 20 years mentoring with a minister who preached such hatred.

What hatred are you talking about?
The guy is speaking out against the injustices of his country worldwide and how it played a role in 9-11. Is it un-American to voice the grievances you with your government based on historical facts and your own personal experiences?
How the hell do you think this country started?

That he sat in the church every week with this now 6- and 9- year old daughters allowing them to learn and absorb this kind of hatred. It makes sense now,in context, that Michelle Obama had never been proud of her country.

You'll never understand how Black people can have a different perspective of this country than Whites. Black people were slaves; Black people suffered under Jim Crow laws; Black people were terrorized and killed with fervor in the 1920's; black athletes suffered name-calling and abuse because they were good enough to compete with or play alongside White athletes; Black people were imprisoned and/or attacked with dogs and high pressure hoses for having peaceful demonstrations against the status quo; Black people were experimented upon with STDs without their knowledge or consent; Black people were mostly kept away from the nicest neighborhoods; the cushiest jobs, etc. Eventually, it was decided that Affirmative Action was the best course and it only made the issue worse as Whites began to feel they were being discriminated against.

There is a historical backdrop to Wright's anger that has to be addressed by the nation at large. What he's saying has been said by many a dissenter and aren't categorically untrue. It's just not "patriotic" to acknowledge America's blunders. How can you love something without acknowledging its flaws?

We listen as a candidate easily throws his grandmother from the train by quoting her private around-the-kitchen-table conversation about being scared of groups of black men, and has the audacity to compare her to a preacher who is publicly trying to influence a large congregation to hate.

Yeah, because none of us have family members who never say hateful things about other ethnic groups or lifestyles. Everybody in your family just looooooves gay people and approve of the gay lifestyle.

These clips are some of the most disturbing things I've ever heard ...because I know a U.S. presidential candidate passively sat and listened and nodded for two decades, and did nothing about it. And then he lied to us and claimed he never personally heard anything offensive echo from his preacher's mouth, only to backtrack days later.

How, exactly, did he lie? He said he didn't hear the comments in question when they were spoken. He said he hadn't heard the pastor utter hate speech against other racial or ethnic groups. He did say he'd heard controversial statements from Wright before. But controversial to whom?

Homosexuality in the black community is controversial.
The erosion of the black family could be considered controversial.
Teen pregnancy, abortion, unaccountability, infidelity, low self esteem and a lack of cultural identity could all be controversial subjects at this church.

And I wonder how Obama would have reacted if this were McCain's preacher and he was talking white power and anti-American rhetoric....

Actually, McCain is having to distance himself from a couple of conservative preachers as well, though I don't see why, given their rather similar stance on homosexuality and the gay agenda (whatever that is).

Let's be honest: Wright's words, particularly regarding 9-11 are no worse than the white conservative preachers like Haggard, Buchanan, and Robertson blaming gays, women, and America's "sins" for God "allowing" the 9-11 attacks or bring Katrina down on New Orleans, a haven for rampant homosexual activity.
In the end, they're a bunch of preachers lecturing from the pulpit. It's just that Wright's words are actually based, more or less, on facts.

 

[Shafted]

The only reason she didn't get to do more was because she got burned. All the news outlets that have commented on this recognize that she was highly involved in that administration from day one. It was only after her very first initiative was rebuffed that she accepted the wishes of Bill's staff and agreed to become a wallflower, as is "proper" for a first lady.

So why the need to exaggerate her experience?
The White House notes and the people involved on the ground floor of events she claims she had a hand in say otherwise.

Bottom-line: you don't need that much experience to be President of the U.S.

Case in point: George W. Bush

 

[Shafted]

When you put it that way, I'm a bit frightened when facts are the basis from what is preached from the pulpit...

Well, it is a fact that American foreign policy played a role in the 9-11 attacks.
That is a more reliable statement as opposed to saying America's "sins" led God to allow the 9-11 attacks; America's "sins" being completely open to interpretation.

 

[NickCole]

Tell you what, Johan, You'll have about six months to think it over. And I hope sometime during that time before you make up your mind about who to support in the general election, you do Sen. Obama the courtesy of watching his speech--THE WHOLE THING.

I've watched his speech, the whole thing, I've listened to it a second time and I've read it.

There are some wonderful passages, there is some unfortunate politicking, and more Obama deceit is revealed.

The most troubling attempt to deceive is Obama's backing away from his earlier comments saying he hadn't been present for the kind of stuff we heard, covering himself in case evidence is revealed of his being present for Wright's rants -- that alone is the most important element of the speech since the speech was given only because Wright's tapes were damaging Obama's campaign.

But the bottom line is they're just words. All speeches are just words. They only become more than words when the speaker's words are backed up by his behavior and action. Obama is entering mid-life, he's not a kid, not a young adult. What accomplishments can you point to of his that indicate he unifies people, that indicates his lofty words in that speech about race and how to deal with it is a reflection of anything he's accomplished while in the US Senate or the State Senate? Let's see it. I'd love to believe him. But if he hasn't been doing what he preaches in that speech then we have to conclude it's just words. And that, then, lends credibility to concern about how much, and which parts, of Wright's philosophy Obama may subscribe to.

 

[naked gent]

I thought Bill Clinton's behavior on that score was shameful. I also thought it was mostly only his and Miss Lewinsky's and Mrs. Clinton's business. His deceit about a private concensual affair didn't have anything to do with what we elected him to do. Obama has lied about passing legislation, he's been deceitful about his connection to Rezko

Nick the recently released Clinton papers indicate that 7 weeks before President Clinton pardoned Marc Rich his wife hosted a fundraiser for Mrs. Clinton in NYC.

Does the odor of that fundraiser match Obama's relationship with Mr. Rezko?

I mean selling pardons is not a private affair is it?

 

[Zingerific]

I haven't weighed in much on this (I've been mulling things over) but I'll say a few things.

I'm surprised at the reaction to both Wright and Obama's speech.

I don't think anyone who had actually read "The Audacity of Hope" would be at all surprised that Obama had someone like Wright in his backgroud.

Nor would they be surprised at Obama's speech on Tuesday.

In his book (which I can't quote; I sold my copy to a used bookstore) he describes his early views, and they are pretty close (in principle, if not specifics) to Wrights. But he also goes on to describe his journey (too melodramatic, but I can't think of anything better) to where he is now.

I think that's why he talks so passionately and convincingly about change and hope. They aren't just words for him, he embodies them. Isn't that, after all, the whole rational behind his campaign? That change is possible?

I'll be a little too melodramatic again: I'm reminded of the cover jacket to my copy of St. Augustine's Confessions: the story of how a great sinner became a great saint.

Anyway, Rev. Wright was where he was. Tuesday is where he is now. Isn't that in and of itself cause for a little hope?

 

[Miraclemakr]

I said Obama has failed to release any records from his years in the State Senate.

The Media Matters site you link to doesn't debunk that at all.


Obama says:




And that's ridiculous.

as ABC News reported last November:



Even if he didn't come up with hundreds of cartons of records, even if he came up with ten cartons or five or even one ... but nothing? Please.

Being the first lady for 8 years might have helped her acquire such an extensive file cabinet. The last time I visited the White House, it's been a while now, but I'm sure I remember seeing memos, personal letters, ALLLLLL sorts of things kept on file from not only the President, but his wife as well. Then again, she could have had all those records from her long seating as Senator, huh? Granted, it does seem odd that he doesn't have records of his actions while in Senate...but then again, I can't find the speeding ticket I got last month...

 

[NickCole]

Nick the recently released Clinton papers indicate that 7 weeks before President Clinton pardoned Marc Rich his wife hosted a fundraiser for Mrs. Clinton in NYC.

Does the odor of that fundraiser match Obama's relationship with Mr. Rezko?

I mean selling pardons is not a private affair is it?

Barack Obama's platform is he's going to change the way politics is done.

And here you defend his politics-as-usual by pointing out others have done it.

It's mindboggling how completely Obama's supporters undermine the principles of a campaign they claim inspires them.

 

[naked gent]

Barack Obama's platform is he's going to change the way politics is done.

And here you defend his politics-as-usual by pointing out others have done it.

It's mindboggling how completely Obama's supporters undermine the principles of a campaign they claim inspires them.

Nick I don't see where I'm defending anyone and I'm not for Obama for the reason you suggest, I'm for him because I'm against her.

I don't like her views on the middle east, the war, Iran and her attempt to "help" the middle class by forcing them to purchase health insurance because she feels they need it.

The only thing that inspires me about Obama is the way he has been kicking her ass.

IMO thats the most positive development in american politics since the 06 elections.

 

[gaybot9000]



In that case I guess it's just too bad his past had to come back and bite him on the ass in this way. His great sinning could prevent him from becoming that great saint in the end.

 

[Shafted]

Nick the recently released Clinton papers indicate that 7 weeks before President Clinton pardoned Marc Rich his wife hosted a fundraiser for Mrs. Clinton in NYC.

Does the odor of that fundraiser match Obama's relationship with Mr. Rezko?

I mean selling pardons is not a private affair is it?

Yeah, there was quite a bit of pardoning going on so that a certain senator could attain a seat in a state she never lived in.

 

[Sammie13]

I think that's why he talks so passionately and convincingly about change and hope. They aren't just words for him, he embodies them. Isn't that, after all, the whole rational behind his campaign? That change is possible?

I'll be a little too melodramatic again: I'm reminded of the cover jacket to my copy of St. Augustine's Confessions: the story of how a great sinner became a great saint.

Anyway, Rev. Wright was where he was. Tuesday is where he is now. Isn't that in and of itself cause for a little hope?

You make a nice point, Zingerific and IMHO, since my official "non-endorsement" of Obama, it's the only post that presents any credible rationale for Obama. I could buy what you're saying...I don't buy it...but I could, and, at least, it makes me pause and think. It doesn't excuse his poor condemnation and flip-flopping on what he had heard and when, but that wasn't your point anyway. You are trying to get in his psyche, and you may or may not be right. How can we know...how can we get inside his brain and heart? And he doesn't have the market cornered on hope (see Gary Hart and John Edwards for two quick examples), how do we know it's not just another campaign slogan...selling hope, safety, security, prosperity...those are the pillars of American politics.

I will say this. Of course, you've heard Obama critics talk about his inexperience. I could tie that in with what you're saying. He ran for this office too soon. Had he waited 4-8 years, he would've had considerably more Washington experience, but more importantly, he could have had some time to remove himself (and those little daughters) from this church and, at least, made this a more distant issue. Instead, it's a "now" issue, which makes his political acumen seem naive and green.

 

[Zingerific]

And he doesn't have the market cornered on hope (see Gary Hart and John Edwards for two quick examples), how do we know it's not just another campaign slogan...selling hope, safety, security, prosperity...those are the pillars of American politics.

Yeah, it's the Clinton's that have cornered the market on Hope... Arkansas, that is, what with those crooked land deals.

Seriously, though: the point you make could be made about any politician. I'll grant that the nature of Obama's campaign make him especially vulnerable to the charge.

I don't think that sloganeering necessarily equals deceit. The best slogans are catchy and true.

I'm not accusing you of this, Sammie13, but I think we're at a point where it is supposedly naive to believe it when a candidate says what their favorite color is; where world-weary cynicism masquerades as wisdom, because anything else lacks sophistication.