Obama Sinks as He's Vetted

[syntax]

The NickCole rule concerning polls:

Those polls that support Sen. Clinton are to be acknowledged.

Those polls that support Sen. Obama are to be ignored.

Those polls that once supported Sen. Obama but now support Sen. Clinton are to be highlighted.

Those polls that once supported Sen. Clinton but now support Sen. Obama are to be discounted. (They are disloyal and divisive)

The ultimate non-NickCole poll: the delegate count that will give the nomination to Sen. Obama.

 

[NickCole]

That doesn't prove anything about interest in the race. Having Rodham on O'Reilly for the first time ever would be a draw for that network and that show. So if you're going to claim I'm lying, why don't you actually prove it, instead of your disingenuous Rodhamite spin all the time?

The proof is all around us.

People registering to vote by the millions, Obama & Clinton events filled, record turnout at the polls, all the cable, broadcast and print media filled with primary coverage every day and pictured on their covers (they want ratings, they're reporting on what people will tune into), the Internet buzzing with "news" and comments, "grassroots" fundraising for both campaigns breaking records. People are energized like crazy in North Carolina and Indiana, which normally are barely paid attention to. Before this primary I bet most voters couldn't even tell you what a superdelegate is -- today most people seem to know.

Maybe you're not lying, maybe you genuinely believe there isn't much interest in the race, or that people are bored with it, I mean that does dovetail with your usual level of analysis.

 

[NickCole]

Seriously, NickCole, your numbers don't seem to include the fact that the Gallup poll has a margin of error of +/- 3 so really, there's been no change and it's all within the margin of error. So good try, but I don't buy it.

The numbers for a long time have been neck and neck within the margin of error.

What I'm looking at in this thread with the daily tracking is trend and momentum, especially as it reflects Obama being vetted. And I did believe Obama would pull out of Clinton's Pennsylvania win like he did after New Hampshire and Super Tuesday and Ohio, but Indiana/NC is getting very close and he's not pulling up, he's continuing down while she's continuing up.

Who knows what'll happen, it's been a crazy race all along. But the trend is what it is, and it's not only showing up in one poll or a few polls, you can feel it in the air. There's demoralization and desperation from Obama and his supporters while Clinton is clearly energized and at the top of her game.

 

[NickCole]

The ultimate non-NickCole poll: the delegate count that will give the nomination to Sen. Obama.

I've got a newsflash for you:

Obama will not have 2025 pledged delegates.

The nominee will be chosen by superdelegates.

Because of that, in this race the pledged delegate count is no more important than the popular vote.

And any true count of the popular has to include the votes cast in Florida and Michigan, which gives it to Clinton -- no matter what else happens, those votes WERE cast and pretending otherwise is just spin that sounds a lot like Florida 2000.

 

[NickCole]

^^

Here's a cite from last evening:

The North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman opened a rowdy Jefferson Jackson Dinner proclaiming a history making event.

"This is the largest Jefferson Jackson dinner in the 78 year history of the dinner" NC Party Chair Jerry Meek said.

The annual fund raising event usually includes 500 dinner guests.

But because both Democratic Presidential candidates confirmed their attendance to the event, organizers expanded the venue,

More than 5,000 dinner guests and audience members packed the Dorton arena at the North Carolina State Fairgrounds.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-05-02-0029.html

 

[jockboy01]

But the trend is what it is, and it's not only showing up in one poll or a few polls, you can feel it in the air. There's demoralization and desperation from Obama and his supporters while Clinton is clearly energized and at the top of her game.

Again, the "trend" is flat... still within the margin of error. And maybe you can feel it in the air... doesn't appear that way to me or the rest of the country. And Clinton and supporters would like you to believe that Obama is desperate and demoralized and that she is at the top of her game, but that just isn't the case. Pretty soon she'll tell the number one candidate again that he'd be a great VP LOL. She and her supporters have been singing this "we're coming back" toon for a long time.... but meanwhile Obama keeps trucking to the win.

And any true count of the popular has to include the votes cast in Florida and Michigan, which gives it to Clinton -- no matter what else happens, those votes WERE cast and pretending otherwise is just spin that sounds a lot like Florida 2000.

Haha, you must be joking? Of course you'd like people to think that. But Obama wasn't even on the ticket in Michigan so that makes NO sense. And back at the discussion of "re-doing" these, Clinton was very against caucuses in Michigan... probably b/c she would have lost those. These states didn't play by the rules and nobody campaigned there... the delegates don't count and the votes don't count. Next time I bet they play by the rules.

 

[syntax]

An update on the poll that started this thread

 

[syntax]

I've got a newsflash for you:

Obama will not have 2025 pledged delegates.

The nominee will be chosen by superdelegates.

Tell me something I don't already know.

 

[NickCole]

Still neck and neck.

And yet Obama supporters still call for Clinton to drop out and, if anything, have amped up their hostility towards Clinton and her supporters as if we're a fringe group they can do without in November.

What if they held an election and half the party decided not to vote for its nominee?

 

[naked gent]

NickCole works for the McCain campaign.

That thought has crossed my mind.

Hey Nick are you a mole?

 

[NickCole]

^^ You guys are hilarious.

A year ago I was being bashed for being a partisan Democrat who blindly supported anything any Democrat did and having nothing but hate in my heart for all things Republican.

Now I work for the McCain campaign.

What a bunch of stumblebums.

 

[NickCole]

Hm, taking lessons on how to threaten from the religious right, I see. You guys have a lot in common.

You called it, Sherlock.

I realized I was one of the gays that brought on 9/11 with my godless behavior.

But I've repented.

From now on I'll lie about sex like God intended.

Regarding hate for Republicans, you said yourself that it was just hate for the RoveBushRepublicans... who attacked McCain. It actually makes sense now why you hate them, for what they did to McCain. Now he has another shot at it, and you treat him with utmost love and respect.

Yep.

I've given up on Hillary. Loser bitch.

Signed up with McCain today.

Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran!

 

[jockboy01]

Too bad this thread is deteriorating into name calling and such.

Yes, I wouldn't expect the lines to greatly deviate ever. But the delegate count is why people are calling for Clinton to win. And because she has hung in there so long is why those lines will never deviate and why the dems may ultimately lose the nomination. If you cheer for a team long enough, you develop a loyalty to it... regardless of outcome. Now that she's hung in there this long, people who at one point liked her but weren't opposed to Obama, have dug their heels in and REALLY want her. And ultimately, this is why in the end, the dems may lose. If she would have dropped out earlier and supported Obama (back at the Ohio, TX primary is really where imo it looked hopeless for her) people would have rallied behind him imo. Now, half of the party will be bitter. And yet, she didn't learn from this and she continues on her quest.... no matter how impossible... at the expense of the party. That's not leadership... it's arrogance, and stupid arrogance at that. Didn't we get enough of that over the past eight years?

 

[NickCole]

^^


When you say "now half the party will be bitter" I assume you're referring to Hillary supporters.

Have you read the posts of Obama supporters across the Internet and on TV, or right here? JackTwist, LostLover, ICO7, etc ... they're reeking with bitterness, and they're supporting the candidate who's supposedly got the nomination. Don't you wonder why people who are winning and claim to want a new tone in politics are so bitter, denigrating older people, calling Hillary "a lying bitch" and all the rest?

As to your opinion that Clinton should have dropped out at the time of Ohio and your claim that remaining in is "not leadership ... it's arrogance, and stupid arrogance at that." The people who support Hillary believe staying in the race is a sign of integrity and tenacity and the kind of backbone we want in a President. I want a President who has principles and will fight for what she believes in, not someone who'll cave because the opposition seems to be winning and her cause looks hopeless. If we'd given up when it seemed hopeless during Civil Rights, Obama wouldn't be running for President. Giving up when confronted with too much opposition and he thinks it's hopeless is what Deval Patrick has done in Massachusetts and it's what Obama will likely do if he's President -- afterall, his supporters think that's what a leader ought to do.

 

[Lostlover]

Reeking with bitterness? Obama knocked Hillary out a long time ago.

You don't believe me? Obama's "supposedly" gotten the nomination according to you? Put your money where your mouth is... I offer you a $100 bet that Obama will be the Democratic presidential nominee for president in 2008.

NickCole, will you man up and accept?

This is a slow death for Hillary and her campaign. And it's sooo good to see.

State after state, data after data, poll after poll Hillary keeps losing but she won't concede and call it a day.

She's like a woman that's been beat by her husband. She keeps coming back for more.

 

[noah617]

Have you read the posts of Obama supporters across the Internet and on TV, or right here? JackTwist, LostLover, ICO7, etc ... they're reeking with bitterness, and they're supporting the candidate who's supposedly got the nomination.

I think I finally get it now. Clinton supporters are angels and Obama supporters are the devil. Thank you for showing me the light.

After Tuesday night, most Obama supporters on here made an effort to be conciliatory. I'll admit there are a couple that are beyond help. (see above) You on the other hand just continue to try to stir the sh*t. How do you expect people to react? You seriously should try taking a long hard look in the mirror and think about what you're trying to accomplish on here. Is it more important to you to be proven right or for Democratic principles to return to the White House?

The math is completely against Senator Clinton at this point. Her only chance of victory is for Obama to completely implode. If it happens it will happen with or without Senator Clinton's help. She knows that. That's why the tone of her speeches has changed. Would it kill you to follow her lead?

Giving up when confronted with too much opposition and he thinks it's hopeless is what Deval Patrick has done in Massachusetts and it's what Obama will likely do if he's President -- afterall, his supporters think that's what a leader ought to do.

There you go Nick still doing your best to elevate the discussion on here. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[NickCole]

Reeking with bitterness? Obama knocked Hillary out a long time ago.

You don't believe me? Obama's "supposedly" gotten the nomination according to you? Put your money where your mouth is... I offer you a $100 bet that Obama will be the Democratic presidential nominee for president in 2008.

NickCole, will you man up and accept?

This is a slow death for Hillary and her campaign. And it's sooo good to see.

State after state, data after data, poll after poll Hillary keeps losing but she won't concede and call it a day.

She's like a woman that's been beat by her husband. She keeps coming back for more.

Reeking with bitterness.

And that's when this Obama supporter perceives himself as winning.

This is usual for Obama supporters. Not all of them. But a really disturbingly high number of them.

Nasty. Divisive. Destructive. Dismissive, shunning of fellow Americans and delighting in what they perceive as the misery of others. Obama is attracting, in droves, people who think this way. You can see it in comments throughout the Internet.

Read the history of civilizations and you'll see how disturbing a "movement" this is.

 

[JackFTwist]

I think I finally get it now. Clinton supporters are angels and Obama supporters are the devil. Thank you for showing me the light.

After Tuesday night, most Obama supporters on here made an effort to be conciliatory. I'll admit there are a couple that are beyond help. (see above) <clip>

Noah my good buddy - I was and am among those who were conciliatory after Tuesday's primaries and I continue to stand by my statement on Wednesday that when all of the Clinton supporters come over to support the nominee, they ought be welcomed without a word about the past, just go forward

on the other hand I am not about to see total misstatements get made without a response - as you yourself did here in this thread

if we are talking specific people, NickCole and iman have been very avid Democrats in the past and once this primary season is over I yearn for a reconciliation amongst all of us - and not with anyone expecting them to retract what they have said, just forget it and move forward - all we do is go forward without trying to heap on - as I said the other day, I know what its like to have my first choice not be the nominee since it almost always happens to me - NickCole and iman give it and they can take it, but once the party unites, including them, we just go forward as friends, no looking back at past disagreements, it is the only way towards unity -

 

[jockboy01]

When you say "now half the party will be bitter" I assume you're referring to Hillary supporters.

There's what you get for assuming. I meant, no matter who wins, the other half will be bitter. Obviously, it is most likely that it is the Clinton half. But if Clinton gets the nod, the Obama half will be bitter... you bet. Stop putting words otherwise into my mouth.

The people who support Hillary believe staying in the race is a sign of integrity and tenacity and the kind of backbone we want in a President.

Of course they do. And the people who supported Hitler believed that conquering Europe was a sign of tenacity and strength too. It didn't make them right.

I want a President who has principles and will fight for what she believes in, not someone who'll cave because the opposition seems to be winning and her cause looks hopeless.

I want a president who has principles and fights for what they believe in too. But I also want a president who is objective and intelligent enough to know when he isn't going to win the battle and instead of being bull headed and pushing for something that clearly isn't going to happen, has the intelligence to work toward some sort of compromise that is acceptable rather than lose the entire issue at hand.

If we'd given up when it seemed hopeless during Civil Rights, Obama wouldn't be running for President.

Yeah, well, the civil rights movement was that... a movement. It didn't happen b/c one person didn't give up a seat on bus. It was a series of events and compromises that eventually brought us to the goal. It was... a movement.

Giving up when confronted with too much opposition and he thinks it's hopeless

I never said that's what defined a leader. Again, putting words in my mouth that I don't appreciate. First of all, Obama isn't giving up... even though you seem to still think (in some fantasy world) that he'll lose. But in this case, Clinton bowing out gracefully would have been giving up in your mind. In my mind, it would have been a sacrifice for the great good of the party. Now in my mind THAT is leadership.

Nasty. Divisive. Destructive.

All words that could equally be used to describe Clinton supporters let's be honest (don't believe me? look at the polls about percentage of each side that would support the other side if nominated) And again, neither side started off this way imo. But the length of the game makes everybody more entrenched in their side.

 

[Lostlover]

Reeking with bitterness.

And that's when this Obama supporter perceives himself as winning.

This is usual for Obama supporters. Not all of them. But a really disturbingly high number of them.

Nasty. Divisive. Destructive. Dismissive, shunning of fellow Americans and delighting in what they perceive as the misery of others. Obama is attracting, in droves, people who think this way. You can see it in comments throughout the Internet.

Read the history of civilizations and you'll see how disturbing a "movement" this is.

So do you want to take my bet? $100 US on that Obama will be the Democratic nominee for president this year? I have Obama and you have Clinton ok?

I'm dead serious with this.

Man up.