Obama tries to stop execution in Texas of Mexican killer

[hotatlboi]

well the debate is over now, he's been executed.

 

[White Eagle]

I want to make it clear that I know that he committed the murder. However, the problem is he should have been told of his rights to contact his counsel. He was not. It is in violation of international treaties. I KNOW Texas doesn't have to recognize that, however after the Bush/Cheney war crimes it is about time for Texas to get in with international treaties. Put Bush/Cheney/Perry in prison and end it.

 

[White Eagle]

well the debate is over now, he's been executed.

Well, fuck! That fucking Bastard!!! I cannot believe this.

 

[Lostlover]

???

So you don't support execution, unless it's "swift justice," and the criminal is illegal?

That's kind of tortured. Have you really thought this out, or are you simply reacting?

Unfortunately for you, constitutional protections apply to everyone in this country however they got here. Take that up with your Congressmen if you don't like it.

As far as "don't play politics with the legal system," Well that's just kind of a pointless platitude kind of like saying "don't do drugs," you can either tell yourself that over and over and cover your eyes, or you can look at the actual situation and try to come up with a more useful response.

I agree, no one should play politics with the legal system. Definitive statement.

There, where did that get us?

No... I generally support the legal system (including executions when it fits the crime). I fully support the death penalty for a killer that rapes and kills a minor.

For the murder convictions based on shady witnesses or circumstantial evidence or shoddy detective work or corrupt cops, I'm extremely skeptical about applying the death penalty here. And there are far too many of these cases. This case however doesn't seem to have any of this. Instead, he's trying to save his life because of a technicality. I don't blame him. I blame far-left liberals for taking up his cause.

EDIT: I just heard the good news. The US Supreme Court rejected the White House appeal to stop the execution. He's getting justice tonight. We should all be rejoicing. Actions have consequences, even consequences you might not like. If you want to kill someone and live to tell about it, don't do it in the USA.

Hallelujah!

 

[chuck10x]

I want to make it clear that I know that he committed the murder. However, the problem is he should have been told of his rights to contact his counsel. He was not. It is in violation of international treaties. I KNOW Texas doesn't have to recognize that, however after the Bush/Cheney war crimes it is about time for Texas to get in with international treaties. Put Bush/Cheney/Perry in prison and end it.

Leal lived most of his life in the U.S.
The International Treaty was just a technicality that he exploited in his Appeal.
At the time of his arrest and trial, His illegal status was not known and he did not volunteer it.
Only now, 7 years later and execution imminent did it become an issue.

 

[Lostlover]

Leal lived most of his life in the U.S.
The International Treaty was just a technicality that he exploited in his Appeal.
At the time of his arrest and trial, His illegal status was not known and he did not volunteer it.
Only now, 7 years later and execution imminent did it become an issue.

That's the technicality that so many far-left liberals are bitching about here.

 

[Críostóir]

No civilized country executes anyone. It's not about the criminals, it's about the nature of our society.

With this execution, the US takes another step on its path toward barbarism. And as usual, Texas leads the way.

 

[chuck10x]

No civilized country executes anyone. It's not about the criminals, it's about the nature of our society.

With this execution, the US takes another step on its path toward barbarism. And as usual, Texas leads the way.

No civilized person rapes and murders a 16 year old girl.
The Barbarism started when Leal raped and bashed her head in with a 30 pound piece of asphalt.
Life in Prison is far more inhumane and could be termed torture.

 

[White Eagle]

Leal lived most of his life in the U.S.
The International Treaty was just a technicality that he exploited in his Appeal.
At the time of his arrest and trial, His illegal status was not known and he did not volunteer it.
Only now, 7 years later and execution imminent did it become an issue.

I'm going to continue my opposition of Perry's delight in killing.
The man came into office knowing that Bush held the title of most killed in Texas. He beat that title and is so proud of it. Now there is another notch in his bed post.
I hope he burns in his hell. He is known as probably the most Christian in the State of Texas. I hope Houston turns out and rejects his prayer service.
I am not against the punishment of Leal. He was convicted. BUT he was not told of his right to his Countrys counsel. This is what's wrong with this execution. An international treaty was signed and we have to abide to it.

 

[BiAggieGuy]

It seems to me that Gov. Perry has almost always played politics with the legal system. This one is no exception. He may very well be looking for a job in Washington, and this would sit well with his supporters.

I usually avoid making any political comments on the forums where I participate in, but I am going to weigh in on this.

One thing most people don't know, and the media rarely mentions it, is the fact that the Texas governor, whoever that maybe, CANNOT pardon or commute a sentence. Due to several corrupt governors around the turn of the 20th Century, who were selling pardons, the legislature took that power away.

It now rests in the hands of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. If they vote against clemency, there is nothing the governor can do except issue a single, 30 day stay. After that, the governor cannot do anything at all to stop the execution. If the board approves the clemency request, the governor can accept or reject it.

In this case, the Board of Pardons and Paroles voted against clemency, meaning Perry could not stop the execution and granting a one time stay was not going to change the ultimate outcome, especially after the Supreme Court ruled the way they did.

*********

For the record, I fully support capital punishment for the most heinous of crimes. Some people are nothing but evil, and do not need to be wasting perfectly good oxygen for 30, 40, 50, 60+ years in prison while spending their days at my expense watching TV and being well fed.

 

[Críostóir]

No civilized person rapes and murders a 16 year old girl.
The Barbarism started when Leal raped and bashed her head in with a 30 pound piece of asphalt.

And of course we're under no obligation to be better than rapist-murderers. Therefore if they're barbaric, we're civilized to kill them.

This is pure bullshit.

Life in Prison is far more inhumane and could be termed torture.

An interesting point. Cruel and unusual punishment is prohibited by the Constitution, so you're actually arguing that LWOP is illegal, by the highest law of our country (though actually the Constitution gives international treaties force equal to itself). I don't buy this, partly because some people really do need to be behind bars for good, to protect society. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't make our prisons more humane.

Do you suppose I've heard these arguments before? They're all nonsense.

 

[MarKo17]

No one has the right to end another person's life even if they are a murderer. He deserves much worse than death. I understand Obama's position on this. It could jeopardize a lot.

This is my own opinion, but I find that people in Texas have little tolerance of anyone who's too far away from being a WASP.

 

[construct]

And a stay of execution is not escaping justice.

I notice this precedent that makes me doubtful that Gov. Perry will issue a stay.

One thing most people don't know, and the media rarely mentions it, is the fact that the Texas governor, whoever that maybe, CANNOT pardon or commute a sentence. Due to several corrupt governors around the turn of the 20th Century, who were selling pardons, the legislature took that power away.

It now rests in the hands of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. If they vote against clemency, there is nothing the governor can do except issue a single, 30 day stay. After that, the governor cannot do anything at all to stop the execution. If the board approves the clemency request, the governor can accept or reject it.

In this case, the Board of Pardons and Paroles voted against clemency, meaning Perry could not stop the execution and granting a one time stay was not going to change the ultimate outcome, especially after the Supreme Court ruled the way they did.

This is all correct. In fact, I don't think that there was anything in any of the posts from us Texans to contradict this. The stay that the President wanted was to try to push through Sen. Leahy's bill that would have preempted the execution. Still, all this probably bears repeating.

 

[JB3]

This is all correct. In fact, I don't think that there was anything in any of the posts from us Texans to contradict this. The stay that the President wanted was to try to push through Sen. Leahy's bill that would have preempted the execution. Still, all this probably bears repeating.

And interestingly, the court said point blank that the passage of legislation wasn't a possibility as it had failed twice previously, and that a case could not be decided based on the possibility of legislation being passed sometime in the future to address a situation. Frankly it was a piss-poor argument to make from the beginning. If the bill had already passed, or was going up for a vote and had majority support, it would have been different.

This quote says it all:

The court rejected the request 5-4. Its five more conservative justices doubted that executing Leal would cause grave international consequences, and doubted "that it is ever appropriate to stay a lower court judgment in light of unenacted legislation."

"Our task is to rule on what the law is, not what it might eventually be," the majority said.

What I find disturbing is that people still defend the man despite the fact that he admitted point blank that he did it and took responsibility for killing her. There should be no doubt that he was guilty and that the punishment was just.

 

[construct]

And interestingly, the court said point blank that the passage of legislation wasn't a possibility as it had failed twice previously, and that a case could not be decided based on the possibility of legislation being passed sometime in the future to address a situation. Frankly it was a piss-poor argument to make from the beginning. If the bill had already passed, or was going up for a vote and had majority support, it would have been different.

I don't doubt any of that either. What's the link to the case. I'd like to look over the whole thing.



Okay, I found it. Here it is in .pdf.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNFPSv1_NKNla0FcHxTr3aVWuIdmiA&cad=rja

 

[jackoroe]

No one has the right to end another person's life even if they are a murderer. He deserves much worse than death. I understand Obama's position on this. It could jeopardize a lot.

This is my own opinion, but I find that people in Texas have little tolerance of anyone who's too far away from being a WASP.

No, states have statutes that allow them to execute people for particularly heinous crimes. If ever a crime qualified, raping a 16 year old girl and then caving her skull in would be it.

Obama and George W. Bush were both wrong in trying to stop this. Maybe Mexico will be pissed. They can get over it or not. In either event, who really cares what they think?

I don't know about people not being WASPY enough in Texas. But they damned sure don't have too much tolerance for child raping murderers. And that's as it should be.

Now this vermin is dead and hopefully suffering in hell for all eternity.

 

[JayHawk]

I am not astonished at the viewpoints. The man deserved to die. He did.

If anyone thinks Americans are treated like royalty in Mexico when you have committed a crime there then you are clearly ignorant of the situation. This does not in any way make going to the country where you can get killed simply see dooing on a shared lake. That and if you think the evil treatment stops at the bribes you will pay at each official along the way then please learn something first.

 

[Críostóir]

Now this vermin is dead and hopefully suffering in hell for all eternity.

Really? That's what you hope for?

Eternity is a long time. I don't think anyone could actually do anything in one human lifetime to deserve suffering in hell for all eternity.

For this crime, I'd say 1000 years, tops. But then I want to leave room for the Hitlers and Stalins (and, to a lesser extent, the George W. Bushes) of the world to get harsher sentences.

I'm curious: what religion believes in the eternal-torment version of hell, yet not in Jesus? If you DO believe in Jesus, do you really think he would want even the scummiest murderer to suffer eternally?

That whole thing has never made sense to me, that a supposedly all-merciful God could be less merciful than I am myself. Kept me out of the Christian fold, that one did.

 

[JayHawk]

Well clearly the dead ones are worm shit and nothing more.

DO we hafta cover evolution again?

 

[Críostóir]

Well clearly the dead ones are worm shit and nothing more.

DO we hafta cover evolution again?

All serve the Goddess ultimately--if only as compost. Fine with that.

It's the thing where people wish other people (even REALLY BAD people) into eternal torment that freaks me out.

I mean, Osama bin Laden? I'd give him maybe 600,000 years. Sure. But a) that's not eternity and b) this guy wasn't OBL, not by a long shot.