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Obamacare and the Horror Stories

I didn't look at your sources yet Opi but I imagine the criteria is that the patient is not suffering from other ailments that would make the life expectancy low regardless.
 
JayHawk said:
Cant cvouch for their sourcing but the Daily Beast stated that over five thousand occurred worldwide with about two thousand in the US and 332 over 65....
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The 332 number is interesting when compared to prior years. (It appears that UNOS [cited by Daily Beast] is using data from HHS.)

National Data (Choose: National Data on left menu, then Transplant/Heart/By Recipient Age)​
 
JayHawk said:
That is a bold faced lie. The republican mantra is what is good for business is good for all. Well we have had free reign health care for the entire span of this country and it is not affordable, the debt is not survivable, and the care is half ass at best UNLESS you are wealthy. How many times do you hear of this national leader or that having a cancer that was early detected and eradicated. Who do think is going to detect that in you? How many seventy one year olds get a heart transplant? Not many. In fact, 332 people over 65 received a transplant last year. That is on a list numbering thousands.

If you dont have cash then the republican concept is that coffins are cheap and dirt is plentiful. That is not healthcare, it is a death panel by capitalism.
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Well said. The GOP is devoted to social Darwinism.
 
opinterph said:
The 332 number is interesting when compared to prior years. (It appears that UNOS [cited by Daily Beast] is using data from HHS.)
National Data (Choose: National Data on left menu, then Transplant/Heart/By Recipient Age)​
Click to expand...

At a little under one fifth the recipients it is a rather large group BUT the list is 3100 deep and I do not believe that 3100 eligible hearts are not readily available in america. Especially when you consider 2.2 million deaths a year. Loose connection does not equal correlation but I would imagine one must have some form of health care to be considered.
 
Jack Springer said:
^^

Daily Beast is a blog ... not a news source. They offer opinion not facts.

Americans spend more on health care per person than any other country. Since people are having to spend more on health care because of Obamacare that number will greatly increase.

http://www.infoplease.com/science/health/expenditures-country-2006.html
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We spend more on health care with worse results compared to socialized medicine countries. You forgot the other portion of that statement. Higher cost and lower success.

By the way you state that Americans are paying more yet you have not provided factual evidence. In fact, most stories of OMG rising rates are developed from Fox Fiction authors. Since you wanna talk sources that OPI then correlated using HHS I would suggest you develop a trustworthy source for your statement. How has health care improved for you under the ACA Jack?
 
JayHawk said:
I do not believe that 3100 eligible hearts are not readily available in america. Especially when you consider 2.2 million deaths a year.
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When I worked in health care, I had an opportunity to spend some time with a young guy from the UK who worked at an organ procurement facility. He indicated that donor hearts are rejected for consideration if ANYTHING is found wrong with them. Most are unusable.


JayHawk said:
Loose connection does not equal correlation but I would imagine one must have some form of health care to be considered.
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I have seen families of the uninsured bring bags of cash to the hospital. Money has a way of opening doors that might otherwise be closed.
 
opinterph said:
When I worked in health care, I had an opportunity to spend some time with a young guy from the UK who worked at an organ procurement facility. He indicated that donor hearts are rejected for consideration if ANYTHING is found wrong with them. Most are unusable.




I have seen families of the uninsured bring bags of cash to the hospital. Money has a way of opening doors that might otherwise be closed.
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Well sure most would be rejected but a tenth of a percent making the cut?

I also agree that moolah has a way of moving people in this country but way too many people don't have that outlet. The guy in Ohio that died in 2009 from an abscessed tooth would not have done so had he a financial ability to correct the situation. Plus as the 80% become less and less wealthy there will be less and less an opportunity to develop 'heal me' cash. That also begs the question, should you only be allowed to live if you have procreated and have a loving family or should we all be equally entitled to health care?
 
Jack Springer said:
^^

Daily Beast is a blog ... not a news source. They offer opinion not facts.

Americans spend more on health care per person than any other country. Since people are having to spend more on health care because of Obamacare that number will greatly increase.

http://www.infoplease.com/science/health/expenditures-country-2006.html
Click to expand...

You are right. Americans spend more on obtaining health care than any other country...the highest case cost with overall poorer outcomes than the other countries. A huge part of the cost is for the vastly overpriced administration and business of health care instead of the care itself. Unfortunately the Republican plan, 'Obamacare', does not eliminate this cost. What it does do though, is reduce the likelihood that millions without insurance will end up requiring catastrophic care in the Emergency department...at a much, much higher cost than preventive primary care...and invariably in serious cases...with far less satisfactory outcomes. And just to remind you....you all pay for the uninsured receiving high cost episodic, catastrophic care. The entire system in many jurisdictions requires a complete overhaul. And that is a fact.

And don't even bother arguing this point with me. You are so far out of your depth here that there's no way that you can argue health care economics.
 
JayHawk said:
We spend more on health care with worse results compared to socialized medicine countries. You forgot the other portion of that statement. Higher cost and lower success.

By the way you state that Americans are paying more yet you have not provided factual evidence. In fact, most stories of OMG rising rates are developed from Fox Fiction authors. Since you wanna talk sources that OPI then correlated using HHS I would suggest you develop a trustworthy source for your statement. How has health care improved for you under the ACA Jack?
Click to expand...

With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.

A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal. Creating a new government monster in DC will not solve health care problems. Remember how you guys hate Walmart ... Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

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rareboy said:
You are right. Americans spend more on obtaining health care than any other country...the highest case cost with overall poorer outcomes than the other countries. A huge part of the cost is for the vastly overpriced administration and business of health care instead of the care itself. Unfortunately the Republican plan, 'Obamacare', does not eliminate this cost. What it does do though, is reduce the likelihood that millions without insurance will end up requiring catastrophic care in the Emergency department...at a much, much higher cost than preventive primary care...and invariably in serious cases...with far less satisfactory outcomes. And just to remind you....you all pay for the uninsured receiving high cost episodic, catastrophic care. The entire system in many jurisdictions requires a complete overhaul. And that is a fact.

And don't even bother arguing this point with me. You are so far out of your depth here that there's no way that you can argue health care economics.
Click to expand...

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The facts are always an unwelcome visitor for our Jack Springer:

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the United States spent more on health care per capita ($8,608), and more on health care as percentage of its GDP (17.9%), than any other nation in 2011. The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries, and notes U.S. care costs the most. In a 2013 Bloomberg ranking of nations with the most efficient health care systems, the United States ranks 46th among the 48 countries included in the study.[5]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
 
^^^

... and starting with Obamacare the USA will spend more than ever.
 
Well, it's already been proven that you are incorrect and the USA will in fact spend less. Or do you mean the USA OVERALL will spend more since more people will have access to it? Cause that's a good thing, you know that right?
 
Jack Springer said:
^^^

... and starting with Obamacare the USA will spend more than ever.
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Yes, the USA will spend more than ever with millions more added to the rolls of the insured.

What are some of the horror stories of the uninsured? I can tell you tales of how families lost their farms, ranches and homes because of no health insurance. I know people who refused treatment because they couldn't afford it and didn't want to burden their families.
 
Jack Springer said:
With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.

A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal. Creating a new government monster in DC will not solve health care problems. Remember how you guys hate Walmart ... Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

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[Text: Removed]
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Well done there Jack. When you don't have facts or knowledge....go for the personal insult.
 
rareboy said:
Well done there Jack. When you don't have facts or knowledge....go for the personal insult.
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Just like you did with me ... however, since you're a moderator favorite, your's was not deleted.
 
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