Occupy Wall Street

[Kulindahr]

Their complaint is very simple. Life isn't fair. No shit, really?! I re-read the Constitution this morning. Didn't see any guarantees about life being fair in terms of outcomes. Didn't see any mention about a Department of Fairness or a Bureau of Do Overs.

I watched this young dullard bemoaning the fact that he just got a degree in sociology and can't find a job. Really? What a shock! And better yet, he borrowed $100,000 to get this worthless degree, that he actually is expected to pay back! Guess they don't teach contract law to folks majoring in sociology. Maybe it's too much to ask that people engage in some due diligence and actually research job prospects in their fields of study before they plunk down $100k that they don't have? Just a thought.

Somehow, expecting him to live up to the terms of this agreement is inherently unfair. So, he hates capitalism. He'll go far in life.

He hates "capitalism"?

I thought we were talking about the U.S. of A., which doesn't have capitalism -- it has corporatism, where giant corporations buy the government that pleases them and the rest of us suffer.

 

[cocksucker4use]

It's fucking about time that the majority of this country take to the streets and protest a fetid, shamefully ineffective government that serves only it's self-interest and feeds the greed of those who put and keep them where they are. This, while its people are poor, hungry and unemployed. Those that aren't yet there are headed that way. Our Nation, this Democracy was founded in protest to a unbending, greedy minority ruling an archaic system. Those royals and their toadies held on by force and exerted power bringing this to bear economically and socially on a majority that was disenfranchised. The Founding Fathers intended that the Citizens of the United States have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, the right to keep and bear arms...They fought, died and gambled all that they held dear to empower us to protest legally. Strict interpretation of the Constitution? Get on it! Tea Party? It wasn't a bunch of flag wavers meeting up at the Legion Hall to bring out the Republican Party base. It was a very illegal and violent protest that destroyed private property in protest to unfair taxation. It was part of the Revolutionary fervor that started the USA. I have wondered why, when Dubya stole a whole election that no amount of dirty tricks could outrightly win, Americans of every stripe did not leave out of there home to protest. In repressive regimes around the world, we are seeing everyday people like ourselves going out in the streets to protest against the moral wrongs perpetrated for the gain of a few at the expense of many. Here, we turn off the 6 o'clock news, pour another drink and head back to the pool. How ironic, that in a country founded by Revolution, we are unmotivated, lazy and scared. The Orange Revolution in the Ukraine in 2004 saw 500,000 protest when their election was hijacked by goons. Yes, we are scared. Will the cops come down on protesters? Fuck yeah. Will the National Guard come out? Oh, yeah. On fifty, on a hundred, on a thousand demonstrators. Guaranteed. But, 10,000? 100,000? 500,000?

 

[JB3]

Well, at least you acknowledge that most of Wall Street is criminal.

The problem is, and has been for a long time, that the government of the United States is also criminal, being in cahoots with the plutocrats to devise laws enabling the fleecing of voters. Republicans have historically been better at that than Democrats -- they've sponsored more transfers of unearned wealth than Bolsheviks ever dreamed of.

Which has what to do with the protests? The extent of the protests I've read about has all been people complaining about how much student debt they have and whining about it. (several of which went to incredibly expensive private schools and are now complaining that they have to pay the debt they owe)

Sorry. I'm not buying that this is anything more than these people whining that life isn't fair and having a temper tantrum about it.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on you to provide me with some of their substantive ideas for improving the nation.

 

[JB3]

He hates "capitalism"?

I thought we were talking about the U.S. of A., which doesn't have capitalism -- it has corporatism, where giant corporations buy the government that pleases them and the rest of us suffer.

Yeah, he does. He's complaining that he chose to go to an expensive school and is now being asked to repay the debt he owes. Get real.

 

[JB3]

When a democratic system of government fails, as ours surely has, then people must take to the streets. As I said in another post, the Democratic Party has been compromised by corporate wealth, and will only get worse thanks to the stupidest Supreme Court decision since Dred Scott, i.e. Citizens United. They differ from the Republican Party in that they have not been taken over by a neo-fascist, theocratic lunatic fringe. It's a very sad state of affairs.

The Democrats also differ from the Republicans in that they at least have sane people running for the presidency.

A man that would willingly force citizens to give a trillion dollars to private industry is no better than any of the nuts the republicans are offering.

Explain how our democratic system has failed. Thus far you've only offered cliched hand-wringing. The existence of a defect does not a failure make.

 

[CowboyBob]

You guys need to learn how to multi-quote in your posts.

 

[Kulindahr]

A man that would willingly force citizens to give a trillion dollars to private industry is no better than any of the nuts the republicans are offering.

You mean George W Bush, of course.

Explain how our democratic system has failed. Thus far you've only offered cliched hand-wringing. The existence of a defect does not a failure make.

Long-term and increasing extent of a systemic defect can. Government has been in the business of transferring wealth to the wealthy since Nixon or before. The failure to prosecute the people that literally destroyed trillions of dollars in wealth constitutes an affirmation of that trend. It is, in effect, a declaration by the government that wealth rules, and rights some in second.

That's failure.

 

[JB3]

You mean George W Bush, of course.

Is W running in 2012? The point went right over your head.

Long-term and increasing extent of a systemic defect can. Government has been in the business of transferring wealth to the wealthy since Nixon or before. The failure to prosecute the people that literally destroyed trillions of dollars in wealth constitutes an affirmation of that trend. It is, in effect, a declaration by the government that wealth rules, and rights some in second.

That's failure.

Democracy has not failed. Usually you're more rational than this Kuli. The government is in the midst of investigating and prosecuting those that broke the law in relation to the financial collapse. You know that. So why the irrational hand-wringing?

 

[palemale]

Explain how our democratic system has failed. Thus far you've only offered cliched hand-wringing. The existence of a defect does not a failure make.

Where do I begin?

We are in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and we have a Congress bought and paid for by the corporations that rejects policies that have proven to be successful with dealing with economic crises in the past in favor of policies that have proven to be failures in dealing with economic crises in the past. Specifically, they reject Keynesian economics, stimulus spending in favor of addressing deficit spending.

Congress is held hostage by right wing Republicans who are insistent on protecting the privileges of the wealth and powerful to the detriment of the middle classes and working classes. The Democrats are too beholden to the wealthy and powerful corporations to offer a meaningful challenge to the neo-fascist Republicans who are hell bent on preventing government from doing anything meaningful to help the public in order to prove that government can't help.

We have a Supreme Court that has granted "personhood" to corporations, thereby enabling them to complete their takeover of corporate takeover of government.

We had a huge transfer of tax-payer money to bail out banks with no strings attached. They didn't have to free up credit to enable businesses to create jobs, they didn't have to loosen the terms of toxic mortgages, most of which were procured by predatory lenders who deceived borrowers into agreeing to loans they could not pay back, which would allow them to stay in their homes. These financial institutions destroyed our economy, indeed the world economy. And what did they get to do with taxpayer dollars that bailed them out? They gave themselves huge bonuses. I suppose this is what you capitalist apologists call the 'magic of the market place." Failed bankers who destroy the economy get huge bonuses funded by the taxpayers. Isn't capitalism wonderful?

We have a generation of workers whose livelihoods and retirements have been wiped out. "We have a generation of students dealing with crushing debt and no hope of decent careers to pay off all that student debt.

We have one major political party populated by ignoramuses who don't believe in science and think the most pressing problem faced by society is gay marriage and repeal of DADT.

This same political party is working overtime to prevent as many people from voting as possible, even though this country has shockingly low levels of voting.

We have a population that is woefully ignorant of current events, history and world events.

I could go on, but I think my point is made. I'd love to know what you and jackaroe are smoking. It must be nice to live in blissful ignorance to the suffering and degradation of society that is going on around you.

 

[JayHawk]

These financial institutions destroyed our economy, indeed the world economy. And what did they get to do with taxpayer dollars that bailed them out? They gave themselves huge bonuses.

I feel your outrage and in fact I feel that same outrage at our public servants for becoming so indebted to corporations that they are their puppets.

That said, the truth about the money given them was that they used it so as not to default and then paid it back prematurely so that they would not be controlled by the government in how they delve out their massive bonuses.

Now many of them are crawling back to beg for more help because the toxic debt they were to have dealt with was not dealt with in any shape or form. The government is at fault in this instance as well. The TARP directed that they raise one dollar for every two they paid back to the government. The FED and FDIC relaxed that requirement so they could pay the exec's the big bonuses. SO once again proving how bought and paid for our politicians are in this country. To our President's credit, so far he is telling them to FAIL. He is correct. Let them fucking fail and lets get it over with.

The corporate stranglehold on american policy has gone on long enough. These students are rightfully outraged.

 

[JayHawk]

• April 22, 2002: Georgia’s new anti-predatory law signed; Ameriquest helps lead
  campaign against it and announces that it won’t do business in Georgia until law is
  changed. Standard & Poor’s refuses to rate Georgia mortgage securities, choking credit supply to state’s home buyers; law gutted within a year.
  
  
• Oct 7: Swiss investment bank ubs announces that Sen. Gramm is joining it to “advise
  clients on corporate finance issues and strategy”; he will also lobby Congress, Treasury,
  and Fed on banking and mortgage issues as industry pushes to eliminate predatory lending rules.
  
  
• May 1: New Jersey’s anti-predatory-lending law signed. Again, Ameriquest and other
  lenders launch campaign to kill it and Standard & Poor’s says it won’t rate certain New
  Jersey securities; law gutted within a year.
  
  
• 2004: Ameriquest employees give total of $200,000 to Bush campaign; founder Roland Arnall and wife Dawn give more than $5 million to pro-Bush pacs. Arnall later appointed ambassador to Netherlands.
  
  
• Jan 7, 2004: Federal Office of the Comptroller of the Currency issues final rule to
  preempt states from applying most of their credit laws to national banks and their
  subsidiaries.
  
  
• March 2005: Rep. Robert Ney (R-Ohio)—who will later go to prison on corruption
  charges related to Abramoff scandal—introduces Responsible Lending Act, billed as an
  anti-predatory-lending measure but in fact designed to preempt stronger state laws. Key supporters include New Century Financial, nation’s 2nd-largest subprime lender, which has contributed nearly $50,000 to Ney’s campaign. Consumer advocates call it “Loan Shark Protection Act.”
  
  
• April: Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act makes it far harder
  for consumers (but not businesses) to discharge debts. Chief sponsor, Sen. Charles
  Grassley (R-Iowa), has received $2 million-plus from fire sector since 1989.
  
  
• Sept 22: Illinois Supreme Court hands mortgage lenders a victory, blowing away a 3%
  cap on fees for loans with more than 8% interest.
  
  
• Jan 23, 2006: Ameriquest settles 49-state investigation into deceptive subprime
  practices for $325 million.
  
  
• Jan 2, 2007: Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) assumes chairmanship of House Financial
  Services Committee. fire sector tops his list of contributors, with total of $746,000 for 2005-06 cycle.

I stole these few points from the following BLOG but you can easily research them via many sources. There are also many more timeline examples prior to 2009 in that blog.

SO really can you not easily see that the deception goes very deep. This timeline was developed to deride the Bush Administration and republicans but it is easy to see that on a regular basis Democratic leadership FAILS to do anything contrary. It is only a matter of time before all of their crimes against the American people are put together.

It is truly out of control IMHO.

 

[Zu-Mendel]

The sad thing is that in a classic Corporatist system the State guides the private sector in the direction that is most beneficial to the State, as opposed to our system of corporate takeover of government.

A true Italian Fascist would have modern American lawmakers hung for cowardice in the face of their tools (i.e. Wall St.)

 

[JB3]

Where do I begin?

We are in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and we have a Congress bought and paid for by the corporations that rejects policies that have proven to be successful with dealing with economic crises in the past in favor of policies that have proven to be failures in dealing with economic crises in the past. Specifically, they reject Keynesian economics, stimulus spending in favor of addressing deficit spending.

Congress is held hostage by right wing Republicans who are insistent on protecting the privileges of the wealth and powerful to the detriment of the middle classes and working classes. The Democrats are too beholden to the wealthy and powerful corporations to offer a meaningful challenge to the neo-fascist Republicans who are hell bent on preventing government from doing anything meaningful to help the public in order to prove that government can't help.

We have a Supreme Court that has granted "personhood" to corporations, thereby enabling them to complete their takeover of corporate takeover of government.

We had a huge transfer of tax-payer money to bail out banks with no strings attached. They didn't have to free up credit to enable businesses to create jobs, they didn't have to loosen the terms of toxic mortgages, most of which were procured by predatory lenders who deceived borrowers into agreeing to loans they could not pay back, which would allow them to stay in their homes. These financial institutions destroyed our economy, indeed the world economy. And what did they get to do with taxpayer dollars that bailed them out? They gave themselves huge bonuses. I suppose this is what you capitalist apologists call the 'magic of the market place." Failed bankers who destroy the economy get huge bonuses funded by the taxpayers. Isn't capitalism wonderful?

We have a generation of workers whose livelihoods and retirements have been wiped out. "We have a generation of students dealing with crushing debt and no hope of decent careers to pay off all that student debt.

We have one major political party populated by ignoramuses who don't believe in science and think the most pressing problem faced by society is gay marriage and repeal of DADT.

This same political party is working overtime to prevent as many people from voting as possible, even though this country has shockingly low levels of voting.

We have a population that is woefully ignorant of current events, history and world events.

I could go on, but I think my point is made. I'd love to know what you and jackaroe are smoking. It must be nice to live in blissful ignorance to the suffering and degradation of society that is going on around you.

Of course there's suffering. There's been suffering since the beginning of civilization. None of it is new. In that regard, good on them for protesting and speaking up.

What I cannot stand, however, is that quite a large chunk of these protestors are protesting based on decisions that they themselves made. Too much college debt? Why the hell did you choose to go to an expensive private school? Being foreclosed upon? Well, did you actually think through whether you would be able to afford that mortgage? The lack of personal responsibility here is astonishing. Its everything our forefathers warned us about, and it betrays these protestors as nothing more than selfish little peons not worth the sweat dripping off the NYPD officers' brow.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for people protesting based on their own poor decisions.

Your anger rings hollow, and your arguments read like the incoherent talking points of an out of touch politician.

The public does not WANT Keynesian economic policy. The public does not WANT more government. Hearing some of these protestors shouting that America wants what they want is laughable; America has already rejected what they're proposing. They want no part of it. The fact that most of these protestors actively campaign for Obama in the same breath as they protest tells us all we need to know about the veracity of their claims and the real motivation behind their actions.

So excuse me that I can't take any of this seriously. Its like what the tea party protests became:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

 

[JayHawk]

Of course there's suffering. There's been suffering since the beginning of civilization. None of it is new. In that regard, good on them for protesting and speaking up.

What I cannot stand, however, is that quite a large chunk of these protestors are protesting based on decisions that they themselves made. Too much college debt? Why the hell did you choose to go to an expensive private school? University of Kansas typical student leaves with 50 (if they worked) to 100K in debt Being foreclosed upon? Well, did you actually think through whether you would be able to afford that mortgage? You can afford a mortgage when both adults in the household are working. often times now we have multiple adults in a household that are unemployed. The lack of personal responsibility here is astonishing. Its everything our forefathers warned us about, and it betrays these protestors as nothing more than selfish little peons not worth the sweat dripping off the NYPD officers' brow.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for people protesting based on their own poor decisions. Read my previous post. Did poor personal decisions cause Georgia to gut their consumer protection law targeting predatory lending? What about NJ gutting their law.

Your anger rings hollow, and your arguments read like the incoherent talking points of an out of touch politician.

The public does not WANT Keynesian economic policy. The public does not WANT more government. Hearing some of these protestors shouting that America wants what they want is laughable; America has already rejected what they're proposing. They want no part of it. The fact that most of these protestors actively campaign for Obama in the same breath as they protest tells us all we need to know about the veracity of their claims and the real motivation behind their actions.

So excuse me that I can't take any of this seriously. Its like what the tea party protests became:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Wait I thought the TEA Party talking points were smaller government and that they are the focal point of that rejection. SO your not in their camp? So since the Republicans are all signing the tea party tune and the democrats you rip above... what are you voting for and what policy is the way out?

 

[palemale]

Of course there's suffering. There's been suffering since the beginning of civilization. None of it is new. In that regard, good on them for protesting and speaking up.

What I cannot stand, however, is that quite a large chunk of these protestors are protesting based on decisions that they themselves made. Too much college debt? Why the hell did you choose to go to an expensive private school? Being foreclosed upon? Well, did you actually think through whether you would be able to afford that mortgage? The lack of personal responsibility here is astonishing. Its everything our forefathers warned us about, and it betrays these protestors as nothing more than selfish little peons not worth the sweat dripping off the NYPD officers' brow.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for people protesting based on their own poor decisions.

Your anger rings hollow, and your arguments read like the incoherent talking points of an out of touch politician.

The public does not WANT Keynesian economic policy. The public does not WANT more government. Hearing some of these protestors shouting that America wants what they want is laughable; America has already rejected what they're proposing. They want no part of it. The fact that most of these protestors actively campaign for Obama in the same breath as they protest tells us all we need to know about the veracity of their claims and the real motivation behind their actions.

So excuse me that I can't take any of this seriously. Its like what the tea party protests became:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

A business that makes a bad business decision can file for bankruptcy under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code, reorganize its debt, and the creditors that loaned the business money and now have a debt they cannot collect in full have to accept whatever the bankruptcy court says it can collect, often pennies on the dollar. They write off the bad debt, and the business emerges from bankruptcy with a fresh start.

With students who borrow more than they can pay back don't have that luxury. The government guarantees the loan, so the banks get paid no matter what. The student cannot go into bankruptcy, because the government eventually gets its money back, by garnishing wages, withholding tax returns, etc. The student has to pay every last penny, and the banks don't lose a dime for making a bad loan. At least the Obama administration put an end to that giveaway to the banks. Of course, not before millions of students have become chained to that debt.

Nice try blaming the victims, though, typical Republican garbage you're peddling there. 'The students fault lies in believing the horseshit that we live in a "market system" that rewards merit. In fact, we live in a crony capitalist system that rewards the powerful and corrupt. It's a rigged system that has destroyed the lives and livelihoods of millions of people.

But hey, have fun with your delusional, tea bagging idiot compatriots living in fantasy land, believing the Republican Party will return us to a mythical place where happy white people will once again live blissful existences working for benevolent employers interested in the well being of their employees and fostering the common good.

"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of reasons will somehow work for the benefit of us all."
John Maynard Keynes

 

[JB3]

Wait I thought the TEA Party talking points were smaller government and that they are the focal point of that rejection. SO your not in their camp? So since the Republicans are all signing the tea party tune and the democrats you rip above... what are you voting for and what policy is the way out?

That's what the tea party started out as, but then they lost it and became shills for the republican party. That's what these protests are, except for the democrats. How else can you explain the fact that these people are railing on all of these things, and yet advocating for Obama's re-election?

I intensely dislike the tea partiers, just as much as I dislike these people. They think that the rules of conduct for citizens should not apply to them. They think that this type of discourse is perfectly okay. (despite the fact that what they're advocating is no different than where we are now. All they want is more of their favored policies and pet projects) They're different sides of the same coin.

As for my voting; I have no idea. I don't like any of the options. For the policy?
-Throw all of the bums out. Every last one, and start over. Every politician, Obama included, is part of the problem.
-Prosecute every last institution and individual that had a hand in the financial collapse.
-Raise taxes on anyone making over $250,000 a year, and institute a 'windfall' tax of sorts on those sitting on more than $10 million, increasing in scale as that wealth increases.
-Offer tax breaks to companies that keep or move jobs back to the US. Conversely, institute harsh tax penalties to those that have moved jobs overseas, or plan on doing so.
-Slash government spending. Focus on military spending and all spending by congress and the executive. There are no sacred cows.
-Pass a balanced budget amendment. If the government can't spend within its means, FORCE them to do so.
-Rip the third rail off the tracks and reform Social security and medicare. What we have now isn't working. Entrenched interest groups like AARP are part of the problem. Marginalize them and make the public realize they're a cancer, just like any of the other interest groups out there. (defense contractors, financial sector included)
-Reform student lending; give states an incentive to make state institutions cheaper. Students also have to realize that choosing anything other than those institutions is a choice they make and the debt burden they take on is theirs and theirs alone to bear.
-Replace ObamaCare with something that will actually work. Something that doesn't mandate a trillion dollars of public spending to the private sector.

I think that just about covers it. And you don't hear me screaming on the street like an idiot.

 

[cocksucker4use]

A man that would willingly force citizens to give a trillion dollars to private industry is no better than any of the nuts the republicans are offering.

Explain how our democratic system has failed. Thus far you've only offered cliched hand-wringing. The existence of a defect does not a failure make.

DEFECT? The point is that the government has failed to control the greed of the oligarchs who have destroyed the US economy to enrich themselves. It is not a Republican or Democrat issue any more. We have given both parties control in the last decade, and they both have failed the American people. When the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress, they started a needless war that has cost us $1.3 trillion and counting. They made tax cuts that have cost $2.3 trillion, with the rationale that they would bring economic prosperity. Well, there's a defect. When the Democrats were in power, they failed to fix any of it, and made a failed attempt at desperately needed public health plan. With a Democrat President and Republican Congress, they spend all their time grandstanding while we poor cocksuckers are starving to death, and our credit rating skids.

1% of the population controls between 40 and 50% of the wealth. Median household income dropped 2.3% between 2009 and 2010. 46.2 million Americans live in poverty, and it is growing. Unemployment seems unstoppable, and none of the statistics show the people who have just given up. The Forbes 400 have a combined net worth of $1.5 trillion, up $160 billion over last year. Wealth does not trickle down. Unbridled greed imploded the housing market, eroding the tax base forcing states, cities and towns across the country to curtail services, some have gone bankrupt. Foreclosures, bankruptcy, unemployment. Corporations that have spent their employees' pension funds, killed off entire industries and moved jobs overseas.

Yes, and the students are pissed. They come out of Big Name schools, 50, 100 thousand or more in debt and there are no jobs. Not bad jobs, or mediocre jobs...NO jobs. Many more aren't going to college because tuitions are soaring and their parents can't afford to help them at any price. Where will that put us in 10 or 20 years?

The problem is that this was all avoidable. Flawed policies and misguided laissez-faire government oversight of big business are killing us. Government's unwillingness or inability to act for us is going to finish us off.

I know. Compared to Greece, Spain, Ireland and Iceland, we're lookin good. If I were in college right now, I would take up Chinese.

 

[JB3]

A business that makes a bad business decision can file for bankruptcy under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code, reorganize its debt, and the creditors that loaned the business money and now have a debt they cannot collect in full have to accept whatever the bankruptcy court says it can collect, often pennies on the dollar. They write off the bad debt, and the business emerges from bankruptcy with a fresh start.

With students who borrow more than they can pay back don't have that luxury. The government guarantees the loan, so the banks get paid no matter what. The student cannot go into bankruptcy, because the government eventually gets its money back, by garnishing wages, withholding tax returns, etc. The student has to pay every last penny, and the banks don't lose a dime for making a bad loan. At least the Obama administration put an end to that giveaway to the banks. Of course, not before millions of students have become chained to that debt.

Nice try blaming the victims, though, typical Republican garbage you're peddling there. 'The students fault lies in believing the horseshit that we live in a "market system" that rewards merit. In fact, we live in a crony capitalist system that rewards the powerful and corrupt. It's a rigged system that has destroyed the lives and livelihoods of millions of people.

But hey, have fun with your delusional, tea bagging idiot compatriots living in fantasy land, believing the Republican Party will return us to a mythical place where happy white people will once again live blissful existences working for benevolent employers interested in the well being of their employees and fostering the common good.

"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of reasons will somehow work for the benefit of us all."
John Maynard Keynes

The republicans can rot in hell. Hopefully the democrats will join them.

Students have a choice. If you choose to take on $140k in debt going to an expensive private school, tough shit. You're on your own. They made that choice, and they have to live with it. You don't hear me bitching about my loans, do you? I made a choice to go to a private school, knowing full well it cost more, and knowing full well the burden I'd have after graduation. Its called personal responsibility; you should educate yourself on it, and so should these people. I find it extraordinarily insulting that these people think that they are somehow special enough that they have the right to complain about a choice they made on their own. Anyone that's ever taken responsibility for their own actions should be insulted too.

 

[JB3]

DEFECT? The point is that the government has failed to control the greed of the oligarchs who have destroyed the US economy to enrich themselves. It is not a Republican or Democrat issue any more. We have given both parties control in the last decade, and they both have failed the American people. When the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress, they started a needless war that has cost us $1.3 trillion and counting. They made tax cuts that have cost $2.3 trillion, with the rationale that they would bring economic prosperity. Well, there's a defect. When the Democrats were in power, they failed to fix any of it, and made a failed attempt at desperately needed public health plan. With a Democrat President and Republican Congress, they spend all their time grandstanding while we poor cocksuckers are starving to death, and our credit rating skids.

1% of the population controls between 40 and 50% of the wealth. Median household income dropped 2.3% between 2009 and 2010. 46.2 million Americans live in poverty, and it is growing. Unemployment seems unstoppable, and none of the statistics show the people who have just given up. The Forbes 400 have a combined net worth of $1.5 trillion, up $160 billion over last year. Wealth does not trickle down. Unbridled greed imploded the housing market, eroding the tax base forcing states, cities and towns across the country to curtail services, some have gone bankrupt. Foreclosures, bankruptcy, unemployment. Corporations that have spent their employees' pension funds, killed off entire industries and moved jobs overseas.

Yes, and the students are pissed. They come out of Big Name schools, 50, 100 thousand or more in debt and there are no jobs. Not bad jobs, or mediocre jobs...NO jobs. Many more aren't going to college because tuitions are soaring and their parents can't afford to help them at any price. Where will that put us in 10 or 20 years?

The problem is that this was all avoidable. Flawed policies and misguided laissez-faire government oversight of big business are killing us. Government's unwillingness or inability to act for us is going to finish us off.

I know. Compared to Greece, Spain, Ireland and Iceland, we're lookin good. If I were in college right now, I would take up Chinese.

You have given the most rational post on the issues in this thread. And you are quite right that it isn't a right/left problem any more, which is why I find these protests disturbing. However, what would you propose to fix the problems?

 

[andysayshi]

I think that just about covers it. And you don't hear me screaming on the street like an idiot.

If you don't stand on the street and shout it, who will hear your voice?

When your letters to representatives fall on deaf ears, when your governors are puppets for lobbyists and corporations, when the media is too busy playing sensationalist nonsense to address real issues and ask real questions, when comedians ask harder-hitting and more informed questions than journalists, what other course of action will get the attention of the public, the media and your government?