Occupy Wall Street

[Kulindahr]

Having advocates for the 'Occupy Wall Street' like Rosanne Barr DOES NOT HELP.

Oh, gag.

Yet if you have bothered to listen across the nation at some of the wants and desires of the Occupy movement you will find a amazing disconnect from reality.

- Forgive all college debts
- Federal Takeover of the Federal Reserve
- Stop the war on drugs
- Accountability between Washington and wall street... (this one is what needs to be demanded high and low)

The first one's a joke. The second one has a reasonable basis. The third would be excellent. And the fourth is where their focus should be.

SO what the FUCK do they want? Righties of course wanna chuckle and poke fun at the silly college kids. However those silly college kids changed the course of a nation in the 60s after they got organized.



Still they must organize. The first step in problem solving is knowing what problem you are solving. Without specificity you will accomplish nothing.

A cluster of demands or goals is fine if they have focus. The above set lacks focus.

 

[JayHawk]

A cluster of demands or goals is fine if they have focus. The above set lacks focus.

Agreed but you must identify the problem's root cause and assign specific steps to address the issue. I can state that I want the college retention rate (those that make it to graduation) for every college to go pas 60% (a vast improvement).

Yet if I don't specify that (IN EXAMPLE) the entrance requirements lack actual independent performance evaluation and that to address the issue we must teach the students to be more independent critical thinkers who achieve their goals not based on a teachers timeline but their own and to do so we must provide more online and therefore independent learning opportunities.


Unless each goal can not be so specifically detailed then it will not be achieved.

The answer instead of the broad term of "We want accountability between Washington and Wall Street" the demand should be "we want Campaign finance reform to include prohibiting private funding" and "If the SCOTUS has determined that corporations are entitled to the rights persons have then they are also therefore obligated to be able to be punished like people for their misdeeds"

Legally binding the Board and the Chair so that when a corporation goes tits up and leaves America holding the bag then we should be fully capable of taking every fucking dimes that Chair and board members have until the debt is repaid. To include garnishment of any future wages. THAT would compel business to behave in a responsible manner or face the consequences.

You must have defined goals.

SO since many of these folks are smart people then there will eventually be a manifesto.

End result is the leftist group will be marginalized and police forces will crack down inordinately on these leftist liberal protest groups because government authority be it left or right only is really in it for that authority and any entity trying to take it away must be squashed.


UMMMMMM... ramble over.

 

[zoltanspawn]

It's been sixteen days.

I think 'unfocused anger' is a perfectly appropriate agenda for the movement right now.

(Not that many members aren't actively trying to shape coherent aims.)

 

[Kulindahr]

Agreed but you must identify the problem's root cause and assign specific steps to address the issue. I can state that I want the college retention rate (those that make it to graduation) for every college to go pas 60% (a vast improvement).

Yet if I don't specify that (IN EXAMPLE) the entrance requirements lack actual independent performance evaluation and that to address the issue we must teach the students to be more independent critical thinkers who achieve their goals not based on a teachers timeline but their own and to do so we must provide more online and therefore independent learning opportunities.


Unless each goal can not be so specifically detailed then it will not be achieved.

The answer instead of the broad term of "We want accountability between Washington and Wall Street" the demand should be "we want Campaign finance reform to include prohibiting private funding" and "If the SCOTUS has determined that corporations are entitled to the rights persons have then they are also therefore obligated to be able to be punished like people for their misdeeds"

Legally binding the Board and the Chair so that when a corporation goes tits up and leaves America holding the bag then we should be fully capable of taking every fucking dimes that Chair and board members have until the debt is repaid. To include garnishment of any future wages. THAT would compel business to behave in a responsible manner or face the consequences.

You must have defined goals.

SO since many of these folks are smart people then there will eventually be a manifesto.

End result is the leftist group will be marginalized and police forces will crack down inordinately on these leftist liberal protest groups because government authority be it left or right only is really in it for that authority and any entity trying to take it away must be squashed.


UMMMMMM... ramble over.

You're trying to be too specific -- a procedure that will just make eyes glaze over and you won't have many followers.

A goal such as "Limit political rights to voters!" is clear and specific. Anything beyond that isn't really a goal, it's a proposal for implementation.

 

[JB3]

How was it a poor decision? They were following what they were told was the proper course. They were following a course that many others had followed and did well. Their sudden inability to not have jobs is not their fault.

Or are you suggesting anyone who goes to college should plan on there being a recession when they get out -- a monstrous recession? That's a prescription for returning to the old system of only the rich go to university. It's also a prescription for permanently crippling the U.S. economy

No one's saying the inability to have a job is their fault. What I'm saying is that they have no right to complain about the amount of their college debt when they chose to go to an insanely expensive school. It was their choice.

 

[JB3]

Sorry, but justice delayed IS justice denied.

Who's talking about force? The government and the banks and the media and the schools constantly drum into kids' heads that they'd better go to college or they won't amount to anything, that they only way to have a good job is to go to college. And unless you're rich, the only way to go to college is with loans.

And unless they want a crap degree, they end up with excessive debt. Twenty thousand a year in debt is common for just fair schools, and with more and more kids needing a fifth year to get a degree, that's one hundred thousand in debt.

They had every reason to expect things would be different -- they were told so, continually.

And yet you're defending people that chose to go to a school that cost twice what you're talking about. The education at Columbia or NYU is not substantively different than at a SUNY school. The only difference is the name on the diploma. For choosing that, they have no right to complain about having 50% more debt than if they chose to go to SUNY.

 

[JB3]

Actually the system would have worked fine except for one thing: people started living longer.

Pssst...you're also forgetting about the millions more additional people that are eligible that are coming onto the rolls.

 

[Kulindahr]

No one's saying the inability to have a job is their fault. What I'm saying is that they have no right to complain about the amount of their college debt when they chose to go to an insanely expensive school. It was their choice.

There are no schools that aren't insanely expensive.

And yet you're defending people that chose to go to a school that cost twice what you're talking about. The education at Columbia or NYU is not substantively different than at a SUNY school. The only difference is the name on the diploma. For choosing that, they have no right to complain about having 50% more debt than if they chose to go to SUNY.

Ah -- so you favor the dumbing-down of America, and turning the rich into our ruling class for the next several generations.

Your theme here aims at a program that would smash meritocracy and replace it totally with plutoctacy. The only way to not accumulate insane debt is to go to a junior college and quit with a 2-year technical degree.

 

[mapiyu]

The education at Columbia or NYU is not substantively different than at a SUNY school. The only difference is the name on the diploma.

That is definitely not always the case.

 

[Kulindahr]

Pssst...you're also forgetting about the millions more additional people that are eligible that are coming onto the rolls.

No, because if those people were only living the two to five years after retirement that the original plan predicated, the SS fund would be staggeringly full. We shouldn't be having a problem for another fifty years -- except that the lifespan has increased to substantially more than two to five years after retirement.

Of course if politicians at Reagan's time had sat down and dealt with the problem like responsible people, the whole thing would have been restructured to adjust to the new conditions. That was assumed from the beginning, that future generations would act to make the system keep working.


BTW, I have an idea for all those banks and such that misbehaved badly: when their greedy moves come to light, fine the hell out of them -- and toss the fines into the Social Security fund. That's where any fines for behavior that cost Americans jobs and wealth should go -- to aid the safety net they did a good job of ripping.

 

[Kulindahr]

That is definitely not always the case.

An observation:

I took a number of classes at a community college located twenty minutes from OSU. In a number of departments, the quality was on par with that of OSU, but in most it wasn't, and in some it fell pitifully short.

The difference between the big, big-name institution and one nearby isn't an even one across all subjects, but one of high variability: the big-name place gets quality across the board, while the ones in its shadows... don't.

 

[IokuA47]

This is not about education from a university that costs X amount of dollars vs a university that cost x amount of dollars. The Occupy Wall Street is NOT about education debt. So, why are you even discussing it?

The movement is about raising awareness to where this country is headed, and changing where it is headed. Otherwise, we all will lose.

 

[IokuA47]

Big business? Sounds like you're trying to pass the buck for a contraction in your job market on a group that doesn't bear any of the blame.

I could blame big business for the lack of teaching jobs in my field, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that they had any hand in it.

I am not blaming big business. I am blaming corruption. I have it lucky compared to most people, I know this. The corruption of taking the jobs that we, as Americans, can do, and hiring people from other countries that do it for considerably less with no benefits is just that: corruption. And then, to continue and give these corporations tax breaks, bail them out, and screw over the American public in the process with millions of dollars in bonuses while making record profits and laying people off... you tell me what to think? In fact, don't. Because I am pretty sure you're either wrong, or you're right. I just don't want to be told how to think or act. I want transparency where I can make my own opinion.

 

[palemale]

Medicare for all? There goes the budget.... there are a lot of market-based approaches that should be done before we think about that.

I'm not advocating free health care for all at this point. But, rather than pay private companies, have the government establish a reasonable premium for Medicare for those under retirement age, and allow people and businesses to purchase Medicare instead of private health insurance.

 

[EastMed]

Their complaint is very simple. Life isn't fair. No shit, really?! I re-read the Constitution this morning. Didn't see any guarantees about life being fair in terms of outcomes. Didn't see any mention about a Department of Fairness or a Bureau of Do Overs.

I watched this young dullard bemoaning the fact that he just got a degree in sociology and can't find a job. Really? What a shock! And better yet, he borrowed $100,000 to get this worthless degree, that he actually is expected to pay back! Guess they don't teach contract law to folks majoring in sociology. Maybe it's too much to ask that people engage in some due diligence and actually research job prospects in their fields of study before they plunk down $100k that they don't have? Just a thought.

Somehow, expecting him to live up to the terms of this agreement is inherently unfair. So, he hates capitalism. He'll go far in life.

Excuse me please, they are not complaining that life isn't fair: they are complaining that the economic system is greedy and corrupt and unjust.
As for the person who got a degree in sociology, perhaps we should all be grateful that he didn't study for a degree in Finance, become a Hedge Fund Manager, and make his own personal contribution to the misery of millions of people.

 

[CFoTsD]

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Source Link (added by moderator): http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

 

[Kulindahr]

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Projected national debt by 2025: $36 trillion.

 

[IokuA47]

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

And right at the top of that post of that forum a note says that these do not represent official demands... therefore it is one TROLL.

 

[T-Rexx]

 

[MoltenRock III]

Lmao!!! The wing nuts now whining against the populist Wall Street Occupiers in direct 180 degrees to the Tea Party is fucking hilarious and shows you what tit mongers they are to Drug Limbaugh and Co.