Occupy Wall Street

[Kulindahr]

Anyone who was a TeaBagger supporter, who is now a OWS hater is the ultimate hypocrite. (Bill O' I'm looking at you and your entire wingnut faction)

I talked to some people at Occupy Vancouver whose friends were coming to join later -- friends who had been there at the beginning of the Tea Party, before the reactionaries and religious freaks overwhelmed it.

Real libertarians would be supporting OWS. The ones opposing it are Randite propertarians who pretend to oppose coercion but in practice endorse it. Propertarians hold private property to be more sacred than people -- they're the classical type to despise people for being poor "because it's their own fault".

 

[JayHawk]

you were going to believe in them? yeah right.

Well interesting that you show up here randomly, have never met me and yet seem to have some insight into me or rather prefer to attribute that which you hate to me. Sad that you are so ignorant to any other viewpoint.

More like sign up again and form a strike team to take them down...lol

I dont have to sign up again I am recruiting all the patriotic qualified young college graduates to go pull triggers with me. I will be back to it as soon as my desk job is over. For the record I didn't wanna do this but was forced to allow someone else the chance to deploy. Not that you'd care but just to set your errant statement correct.

• Corporations are not people.
  
• Tax the wealthy before takind anymore from the poor.
  
• Figure out how to do it yourselves. Thats what we fucking PAY YOU FOR

No one in any party is safe from their rath.

Civil disobedience of this sort rarely happens in this nation... perhaps once every two decades. When it does it ALWAYS brings vast change that the populists demand.

Civil rights
vietnam
police brutality
Red sox losing for 86 years
and now
Class warfare on the poor and corporate personhood

The nation altered its path in all those prior incidences in Extensive ways... The Civil rights act, and the dixiecrat migration into the GOP
the end of the Vietnam war
independent commisions and better oversight of law enforecement, especially racial profiling

and how will we resolve it this time?

By letting the corporations win? or by giving the american dream back to our grandchildren, by starting to rebuild the middle class? Can america let the individual human being have as much power as the paper entity called a corporation?

I like the first two on the list and support them if given for a referendum or as provided input to my representatives. I just don't support them in a park. But to each his own. For the record the corporations and the money they donate to politicians aren't going anywhere because the people who could make them go away benefit from their participation.

its a no brainer, and jayhawk?

You are on the wrong side of history

Nope I still defend the right of you and yours to do just as you are doing. Your welcome.

I didn't respond to that because the request was inane -- your derogatory posts are the majority of what you've made here... and in this one you do it again. Distortion, distortion, distortion, and refusing to be rational has been your theme, and it continues below.

Yet again not one example. You keep telling me how much I am lying. PLEASE help I am lying to myself and can't figure out what spiteful thing I have said. PLEASE PLEASE help so I might learn.

Normally right-wingers are happy to convict three innocent people as long as they get one guilty one. There's nothing different ion this thread or the others about OWS -- condemn and disparage is the theme.

No, people have objected to your slandering the entire movement as being rapists or pro-rape, along with upholding the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

Again please point out where the entire movement has been shaded to be just one type of person (rapist).... please... help me out... because to me you appear to be lying through your teeth and telling me it isnt possible for you to prove what you are saying.

No -- as the police have said, the Occupy people have been infiltrated by anarchists, the same people who have run around to the WTO and such meetings to burn and whine and scream.

So wait here in this remark you are all for the police and they assure us that this part is accurate.

I didn't see any bottles being thrown. I've seen enough police misbehavior, including framing people, over the years to not believe anything from a police officer unless corroborated by a known trustworthy citizen or two who were witnesses.

YET here the police are evil and will slam ya in cuffs for peeing sideways in public..... wait that is illegal.... nope for looking sideways.

SO which is it bub? Can ya trust the police and use them as proof of what you are saying or can you not?

OOOOOORRRRRRRRR do you only believe what they say when it conforms to your warped view of reality?

As for riot gear, on the local station they had a guy who trains people in the use of riot gear, and he flat out said that with what the protesters were doing, anyone competent could have stood there are day ignoring it, and anyone properly trained would have.
I've stood and taken it when I was punched in the gut and kicked in the balls. I doubt a few rocks and bottles, me in full protective gear, would seem more than a nuisance.

Though if they had some professional baseball pitchers... that would make a difference.

SO you will take me up on the offer? i am confused. First you say it is impossible to hurt a riot gear clad officer with a rock and use anecdotal proof (WHICH BY THE WAY IS NEVER ACCEPTED ON JUB CEP AS FACT OR PROOF). Yet then you say that damage could indeed be done given the right circumstance.

SO yet again which is it?

 

[zoltanspawn]

The human race is in trouble. And this protest and the system being protested are nothing but a prelude to the shit that's about to hit the fan.

Earlier I believe JayHawk asked who wants to see the complete economic downfall of the world? That would be me. And for one reason only, that it's going to happen anyway.

Exponential growth is not possible using finite resources. If at any point the economy stops growing we've hit recession, regardless of the reason. The one we're in now? Even though it's completely man-made, it serves as a reminder. That there is no easy solution to the problems the human race faces. Resource depletion meeting overpopulation.

At least we'll be entertained.

It's impossible to not feel resignation about our state of affairs. I think you're right. We've got some problems on our hands so frightening and formidable the OWS issues look like a day in the park.

But, we gotta do what we can. There are scenarios of collapse in which the resulting suffering is of such magnitude it can make you feel dizzy.

I have no desire to witness it. Our haplessness may be a bit comedic, but I'd rather simply be bored.

 

[BostonPirate]

This is what this thread has turned into....



Jayhawk?

I do not find this interaction enlightening, or enriching in any way. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I do NOT want to be like you, nor do I want to have your values.

I have nothing to learn from you.

But thank you for offering.

 

[Jack Springer]

Anyone who was a TeaBagger supporter, who is now a OWS hater is the ultimate hypocrite. (Bill O' I'm looking at you and your entire wingnut faction)

So, you're saying that the Occupiers supported the Tea Party and that if they didn't that they are the ultimate hypocrites?

Guess I missed something somewhere.

 

[Corny]

How could the tea party support RAPE CAMPS?

Yeah, I'm not kidding you ..

http://www.teapartynation.com/profi...ogPost:1601906&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

 

[JayHawk]

This is what this thread has turned into....



Jayhawk?

I do not find this interaction enlightening, or enriching in any way. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I do NOT want to be like you, nor do I want to have your values.

I have nothing to learn from you.

But thank you for offering.

Well good. I suppose now you will be using the ignore button. that is perfectly fine by me. I certainly don't need to have insinuations and insults made at whatever happens to be my opinion.

Have a great life.

Oh and believe me the feeling has been more than mutual for a long long time.

 

[fetaby]

Here ya go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/awes...aign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)

 

[JayHawk]

How could the tea party support RAPE CAMPS?

Yeah, I'm not kidding you ..

http://www.teapartynation.com/profi...ogPost:1601906&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

You are using a Glenn Beck blog website. I can post a million different insane and ignorant things from the internet. That does not make them more true just because someone paid the 25 bucks to have a url.

Here ya go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/awes...aign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)

Step by step instructions... Yet still that just shows a group how to make an effigy of that which is unobtainable.... how many effigies of American presidents have been made throughout the year?

 

[fetaby]

You are using a Glenn Beck blog website. I can post a million different insane and ignorant things from the internet. That does not make them more true just because someone paid the 25 bucks to have a url.

Corny's posts usually include a bit of subtle sarcasm.

That someone did pay the 25 bucks, and have used that url to spread that message is telling. But what's even more telling is the comment section below it...

American politics, smear from the get go and if you grind it in good enough it just may stick...

Step by step instructions... Yet still that just shows a group how to make an effigy of that which is unobtainable.... how many effigies of American presidents have been made throughout the year?

Give a wall street banker enough rope and he'll hang himself...

What are you saying is unobtainable? That a banker would choose to kill themselves?

 

[JayHawk]

Corny's posts usually include a bit of subtle sarcasm.

That someone did pay the 25 bucks, and have used that url to spread that message is telling. But what's even more telling is the comment section below it...

American politics, smear from the get go and if you grind it in good enough it just may stick...



Give a wall street banker enough rope and he'll hang himself...

What are you saying is unobtainable? That a banker would choose to kill themselves?

To be honest the comments are not all that interesting or surprising.... (and no I dont agree before some angry JUBber goes off on a tangent).... those comments and commentary have been part and parcel for a long long time. Listening to late night AM radio in the 80's you would here the same thing. Yet go to the working middle section of ANY country and you will find un-enlightened oafs with bigoted opinions about their plight.

I dont understand you second question BUT I have no doubt the wall street banker would use his money to hire a security team and the last thing he or she would do is off themselves over OWS.

As for the idea of Effigy.... as I said it has been used over and over and over. I don't think that a group of people that ends up being as diverse as OWS can be singularly described by one persons actions. And as far as them taking some sort of illegal action...typically those that talk about it publicly a whole lot aren't ready to do something like that....

But again I have no idea where yu are coming from....

 

[chance1]

Anyone who was a TeaBagger supporter, who is now a OWS hater is the ultimate hypocrite. (Bill O' I'm looking at you and your entire wingnut faction)

wow

different day
same shit

tea party protests were peaceful - u may not agree with their ideology but they were peaceful and they had a real message

OWS - and I live in NYC - has morphed into a shit show

it's the mofo Bad News Bears

doing their best it appears now to make the lives of other 99% ers miserable

their fellow 99% ers

they are nothing like the tea partiers

so even though i agree with the idea that Wall St. needs to be regulated - but that's a govt. thing not a Wall St. thing

as can happen they lost me with their behavior

its not what u say but how u say it - granny used to tell me

she was right

and the sniping at Jayhawk here is bullshit

by the resident bullshitters

who throw as much partisan shit on the wall as they can

thinking some might stick

volume play

vs. quality play

 

[fetaby]

To be honest the comments are not all that interesting or surprising.... (and no I dont agree before some angry JUBber goes off on a tangent).... those comments and commentary have been part and parcel for a long long time. Listening to late night AM radio in the 80's you would here the same thing. Yet go to the working middle section of ANY country and you will find un-enlightened oafs with bigoted opinions about their plight.

I point to the comments for one reason, and that is to illustrate that several people are in agreement with the body of the blog. (Or it's one guy who wrote the entire page, to appear to have support, which is possible and common) But my point of saying all this is that yes, there is a campaign to smear the image of the OWS protestors. It's been there from the beginning. From comparisons to the "dirty hippies and communists" to the "shit storm or shitting in public" and now "rape camps".

Have people been raped? Yeah. Am ~I~ defending rapists? No. But here's the thing, rape happens all the time all over the world. IF you're not upset about those rapes as much as the rapes happening in and around OWS, you're smearing. OWS is going to reflect the attitude and will of 99% of the world. And a portion of them are rapists. That's a fact.

And news for OWSers out there, if you are telling people to not report rape or other felonies you're no better than the criminals you're standing next to. That shit ain't right.

I dont understand you second question BUT I have no doubt the wall street banker would use his money to hire a security team and the last thing he or she would do is off themselves over OWS.

As for the idea of Effigy.... as I said it has been used over and over and over. I don't think that a group of people that ends up being as diverse as OWS can be singularly described by one persons actions. And as far as them taking some sort of illegal action...typically those that talk about it publicly a whole lot aren't ready to do something like that....

Yeah, that's cool. But the thing with this guy, Above, is that he's an "artist" and the things he does is "art". So you can look at these things through that filter. And the message that I think he's trying to get across isn't literal at all. But the idea that Wall Street, the Banks, and even the parasitic economic model we thrive on is self destructive. Given time, rope will be produced, and then used...

But again I have no idea where yu are coming from....

Eh, I'm just hangin' out. Putting my opinions out there.

 

[JayHawk]

I point to the comments for one reason, and that is to illustrate that several people are in agreement with the body of the blog. (Or it's one guy who wrote the entire page, to appear to have support, which is possible and common) But my point of saying all this is that yes, there is a campaign to smear the image of the OWS protestors. It's been there from the beginning. From comparisons to the "dirty hippies and communists" to the "shit storm or shitting in public" and now "rape camps".

Have people been raped? Yeah. Am ~I~ defending rapists? No. But here's the thing, rape happens all the time all over the world. IF you're not upset about those rapes as much as the rapes happening in and around OWS, you're smearing. OWS is going to reflect the attitude and will of 99% of the world. And a portion of them are rapists. That's a fact.

And news for OWSers out there, if you are telling people to not report rape or other felonies you're no better than the criminals you're standing next to. That shit ain't right.


Yeah, that's cool. But the thing with this guy, Above, is that he's an "artist" and the things he does is "art". So you can look at these things through that filter. And the message that I think he's trying to get across isn't literal at all. But the idea that Wall Street, the Banks, and even the parasitic economic model we thrive on is self destructive. Given time, rope will be produced, and then used...



Eh, I'm just hangin' out. Putting my opinions out there.

As far as blaming all OWSers as rapist? That was the fervent cry of those attempting to make everything OWS pure and righteous. I couldn't agree with you more. Gather up some humanity and you will have criminals as a percentage. The tone of this thread earlier was that OWS was going to storm the streets of America and all will fall to their mighty wrath.

I think not.

I also argued that getting hit in the head with a rock CAN cause you to desire to fire a non lethal weapon into a crowd BUT at the same time the leadership of the Oakland Police who allowed riot cops to have flash bangs on the front line is amazingly irresponsible. SO blame is to be held on both sides.

As far as artistry goes? At some point it goes past 'art' and becomes simply professing violence. A portrait of white hoods and a stars and bars confederate flag would be perceived as racist and rightfully so yet is it still 'art'? I am not saying that is the case with the effigy. That is however a very profound point your making about the overall impression of capitalist society.

As far as everything collapsing? I agree it is inevitable. One can simply be prepared. This world and it's mechanisms are reaching a breaking point with resources including food, water and energy. I do not however wish to hurry it along.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Some people are delusional and have short-term memory issues. Google "Tea Party violence", seek and ye shall find.

 

[Jack Springer]

How could the tea party support RAPE CAMPS?

Yeah, I'm not kidding you ..

http://www.teapartynation.com/profi...ogPost:1601906&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

Hate the Tea Party all you want, it's your right, however, the Tea Party was very civil and clean. They went to the extreme and picked up after themselves. They did not occupy anything - they had their say and went home.

If you look at the positives and negatives of both -- there were very little negatives on the Tea Party side -- some stray ignorant posters -- on the Occupier side - there has been a whole litany of bad things -- including the many rapes that the blogger termed "rape camps", filth, anarchy, poor sanitation, illegal camping, rudeness, destruction of innocent businesses in places like NY and Oakland.

The blogger may have gone overboard in his choice of terminology -- but the "unorganized" focus and refusal to take responsibility for actions of the occupiers will eventually lead to the demise of this mess.

If you ever would see violence at a Tea Party rally it would be if one of the attendees was accused of raping one of the other attendees.

 

[Jack Springer]

Some people are delusional and have short-term memory issues. Google "Tea Party violence", seek and ye shall find.

I googled and did not find.

Be specific.

 

[fetaby]

As far as blaming all OWSers as rapist? That was the fervent cry of those attempting to make everything OWS pure and righteous. I couldn't agree with you more. Gather up some humanity and you will have criminals as a percentage. The tone of this thread earlier was that OWS was going to storm the streets of America and all will fall to their mighty wrath.

I think not.

Because the gravity of the day to day living situations of the people are not meshing up with the advertised message of what can be done in America.

The biggest percentage of the 99% have become so marginalized and disenfranchised the American dream never existed for them. The people you see out protesting now are either the people who had their dreams stolen (house foreclosures, and lay offs) or people who bought into the dream only to find it was nothing more than an elaborate consumerist scheme ( college grads saddled with astronomical debt).

When it's really going to get interesting is when the social programs do end, either from defunding/cutting budgets or from lack of reform to see the programs through.

Once everyone truly is up against the wall, the fight really will start.

I also argued that getting hit in the head with a rock CAN cause you to desire to fire a non lethal weapon into a crowd BUT at the same time the leadership of the Oakland Police who allowed riot cops to have flash bangs on the front line is amazingly irresponsible. SO blame is to be held on both sides.

Some would argue that simply showing up in riot gear was going to far.

Imagine for a second if the tables had been turned, and it was an unprotected police man that was hit in the head with a rock and ended up in the hospital with a fractured skull and brain swelling.

Defining the protestors as rioters before any riot actually happened paved the way for riotous behavior. By all means the police should protect themselves from harm, but it really was a case of bringing a gun to a knife fight. IF you want the people to color inside the lines, don't draw the picture of violence.

As far as artistry goes? At some point it goes past 'art' and becomes simply professing violence. A portrait of white hoods and a stars and bars confederate flag would be perceived as racist and rightfully so yet is it still 'art'? I am not saying that is the case with the effigy. That is however a very profound point your making about the overall impression of capitalist society.

No, it still is art no matter how much you or I disagree with it. But the question is whether or not it is successful art? Does it provoke thought or produce an emotional reaction? Typical measures of gauging the success of art.

So Miss Marie says let them eat cake, it seems Above is saying let them have their rope. Either way the downfall is of their own creation. Participants in parasitic capitalism make the decision to engage in their business despite obvious moral consciousness.

Personally I believe humans have a responsibility to each other that transcends property.

As far as everything collapsing? I agree it is inevitable. One can simply be prepared. This world and it's mechanisms are reaching a breaking point with resources including food, water and energy. I do not however wish to hurry it along.

Better to rip the band-aid off fast and deal with the sting.

 

[fetaby]

Hate the Tea Party all you want, it's your right, however, the Tea Party was very civil and clean. They went to the extreme and picked up after themselves. They did not occupy anything - they had their say and went home.

If you look at the positives and negatives of both -- there were very little negatives on the Tea Party side -- some stray ignorant posters -- on the Occupier side - there has been a whole litany of bad things -- including the many rapes that the blogger termed "rape camps", filth, anarchy, poor sanitation, illegal camping, rudeness, destruction of innocent businesses in places like NY and Oakland.

The blogger may have gone overboard in his choice of terminology -- but the "unorganized" focus and refusal to take responsibility for actions of the occupiers will eventually lead to the demise of this mess.

If you ever would see violence at a Tea Party rally it would be if one of the attendees was accused of raping one of the other attendees.

And nothing has changed. We're all still being taxed the same. The politicians the Tea Party thrust into the House picked up the Republican party line without missing a step.

What was it? The first week in to their new jobs and they were sucking the anuses of the corporate elite?

Everything you need to know about the tea party...

 

[JayHawk]

Because the gravity of the day to day living situations of the people are not meshing up with the advertised message of what can be done in America.

The biggest percentage of the 99% have become so marginalized and disenfranchised the American dream never existed for them. The people you see out protesting now are either the people who had their dreams stolen (house foreclosures, and lay offs) or people who bought into the dream only to find it was nothing more than an elaborate consumerist scheme ( college grads saddled with astronomical debt).

When it's really going to get interesting is when the social programs do end, either from defunding/cutting budgets or from lack of reform to see the programs through.

Once everyone truly is up against the wall, the fight really will start.

Oh I will agree that many were shafted by unscrupulous and unseemly practices. But since congress removed the laws preventing such things then it isn't illegal and no one is going to jail over it. What's more if you look at Ireland you will see it is impossible for a country to assume all the bad debt to make it better. That economy will suffer forever with it choices.

Possibly that in street fighting will occur or as the long recession predicted slows and turns the other direction the jobs will open up and these people will do what the anti establishment protesters did in after the sixties.... join the establishment. That is what I predict. It really is just a matter of what depravity occurs between now and then.

Some would argue that simply showing up in riot gear was going to far.

Imagine for a second if the tables had been turned, and it was an unprotected police man that was hit in the head with a rock and ended up in the hospital with a fractured skull and brain swelling.

Defining the protestors as rioters before any riot actually happened paved the way for riotous behavior. By all means the police should protect themselves from harm, but it really was a case of bringing a gun to a knife fight. IF you want the people to color inside the lines, don't draw the picture of violence.

I disagree. So since police officers are armed I should shoot some people so we can be even? The police have an obligation to show up prepared to stop aggressive rioting. You have an excellent example of what happens when you don't plan to stop it.

The first protest resulted in a few of those protesting getting injured. One very badly so. Yet the people's property was protected which is what they pay taxes and have police for is to protect their interests.

The second strike devolved into a riot because the police were running scared after the reaction to their initial riot suppression. SO therefore businesses who actually support the ideology of the OWS were damaged, city or collective property was defaced and damaged. All because the police stood by and did nothing. And it started with them standing back just watching. As soon as the protesters realized they could ramp it further if they wanted a reaction they did.

No, it still is art no matter how much you or I disagree with it. But the question is whether or not it is successful art? Does it provoke thought or produce an emotional reaction? Typical measures of gauging the success of art.

So Miss Marie says let them eat cake, it seems Above is saying let them have their rope. Either way the downfall is of their own creation. Participants in parasitic capitalism make the decision to engage in their business despite obvious moral consciousness.

Personally I believe humans have a responsibility to each other that transcends property.

Well most humans have never acted that way and never will. But it is a nice dream world.

Better to rip the band-aid off fast and deal with the sting.

So to you a painful depression would have been much better than a lengthy slowly recovered recession?

In one many people suffer and the times are shitty. People lose things they never thought they would lose.

In the other the majority of people suffer. Food becomes scarce. Starvation and death by exposure occurs. The true nature of man is revealed as desperate persons prey on one another. Read about the great depression and realize with our expanded population that a similar 30 to 40% unemployment would be a 1000 times worse.

No. I am for limping along to recovery instead of massive fails in everything around you.