Occupy Wall Street

[zoltanspawn]

The OWS crowd designates people as "arrestables". People who deliberately provoke the police to arrest them. They are frequently sympathetic figures who make a good appearance on camera and can mouth the necessary talking points.

Fantasy. Fiction. Fake. A deliberate misrepresentation of confirmable fact. Possibly delusion? If anybody chooses for themself that they want to be arrested as an act of civil disobedience, it is solely their own individual choice. There is no designation by a crowd.

 

[jackoroe]

Fantasy. Fiction. Fake. A deliberate misrepresentation of confirmable fact. Possibly delusion? If anybody chooses for themself that they want to be arrested as an act of civil disobedience, it is solely their own individual choice. There is no designation by a crowd.

Nope, it's true. Here's a video of the lefty screwball organizer who teaches it. Take special note of the gentleman who isn't "on the list" to get arrested. So busted!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BARB-aSqYM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

 

[chance1]

Scared to death? If two months of lower sales have these people fearing for their lives, what does that say about the stability of their businesses? They're apparently one winter away from bankruptcy.

Now, please contrast the hand full of business owners here versus the MILLIONS of American citizens who are in permanent revenue decline because 1% have shipped the jobs over to another continent. Or the MILLIONS of women who have always been in a position of revenue decline because they were born a woman. Or the MILLIONS of students who don't even qualify as revenue declining because they start their financial lives underwater.



There's no shortage of useful idiots period.

actually business being down 40% could be a "door closer" so yes in this economy businesses are more fragile

no need to make them more so artificially

and creating the need for police overtime will cost the city and its residents (99% included) quite a bit as well

and accompanied reduction in tourism is not good for the 99 ers either

message good

execution awful

or make that "occupation awful"

 

[zoltanspawn]

Nope, it's true. Here's a video of the lefty screwball organizer who teaches it. Take special note of the gentleman who isn't "on the list" to get arrested. So busted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BARB-aSqYM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Is that the kind of half-baked paranoid, wacko shit you take for corroborative evidence? Wow. (Ominous xylophone and all).

Please give me a time-mark in the video where I can see evidence of an OWS crowd designating the arrest of one of its members. It's not there between 2:04 and 2:24. That section merely shows a man saying he isn't "on the list" to be arrested. It does not show that the teachers' union members are put on the list against their will. (And supposing they were, it shows a man successfully resisting the 'designation.')

People organizing their arrests voluntarily does not count. Can you understand the difference? Or can you simply admit you misrepresent things as a normal course of your posting habits? This sort of post is from a moderator? Unbelievable. What a shame such nonsense brings to JUB.

It may also be worth pointing out that Union members have a habit of organizing that's hardly applicable to Occupy at large. No. Not even close to a standard OWS protocol.

Fake. Fantasy. Fiction.

 

[chance1]

^ the video is chilling but not because as u say there's "no corroborative evidence"

Fithian is bad news clearly - "helping" to orchestrate and maximize events that are partially false

watch the 4+ minute piece again and don't get caught up in who told who to get arrested - just that it's a tactic and it's bad

meanwhile today in NYC "protestors" went into NYC subways and made life miserable for their fellow 99% ers

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/occupy-wall-street-protests-block-people-jobs-article-1.979467

 

[zoltanspawn]

^The video is chilling because you are susceptible to ominous xylophones.

I don't think the video does anything to confront those who don't take their own political stakes seriously. If anything, forsaking one's own individual agenda is a charge best laid at the feet of people who want to follow a leader. OWS, on the other hand, is characterized by an abundance of voices, by an abundance of people not willing to follow a leader. There aren't really leaders. (Which will lead to a separate criticism!)

 

[zoltanspawn]

watch the 4+ minute piece again and don't get caught up in who told who to get arrested - just that it's a tactic and it's bad

To be yet more specific:

Getting arrested-- is a bad tactic?

or

Getting arrested because someone tells you to-- is a bad tactic?

The former is not bad. (Unless you think civil disobedience is bad.)

The latter is.

 

[Kulindahr]

Is that the kind of half-baked paranoid, wacko shit you take for corroborative evidence? Wow. (Ominous xylophone and all).

Please give me a time-mark in the video where I can see evidence of an OWS crowd designating the arrest of one of its members. It's not there between 2:04 and 2:24. That section merely shows a man saying he isn't "on the list" to be arrested. It does not show that the teachers' union members are put on the list against their will. (And supposing they were, it shows a man successfully resisting the 'designation.')

People organizing their arrests voluntarily does not count. Can you understand the difference? Or can you simply admit you misrepresent things as a normal course of your posting habits? This sort of post is from a moderator? Unbelievable. What a shame such nonsense brings to JUB.

Well said.

MLK's people did the same thing. The idea is to have people both trained how to respond to getting arrested, which makes things a lot easier for the police, and how to speak and what to say if they get reporters' attention.

It's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. Politicians do it all the time -- playing the system to get "news" ops. It's freedom of expression.

And just because some people from various cities come to train under someone who's done this before doesn't mean a whole movement is attached to her ideology. That's just more of the same fallacious crap dished up to sully this movement.

 

[palemale]

^ the video is chilling but not because as u say there's "no corroborative evidence"

Fithian is bad news clearly - "helping" to orchestrate and maximize events that are partially false

watch the 4+ minute piece again and don't get caught up in who told who to get arrested - just that it's a tactic and it's bad

meanwhile today in NYC "protestors" went into NYC subways and made life miserable for their fellow 99% ers

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/occupy-wall-street-protests-block-people-jobs-article-1.979467

Chance, that Daily News article is false and misleading. I was in the Union Square area yesterday. The march went through, and there were thousands of people who marched to and from Union Square. But by 5:30pm, they were all cleared out. The women who said she couldn't get to the 8th St subway stop on the R train, could not have been inconvenienced for more that a fairly short time. I took the subway from Astor Place, one block away from the 8th Street stop, at 5:30 and the streets were no more crowded than usual. I boarded the 6 train, no problem. No crowds, got a seat on the subway. Astor Place, for you non-NYers, is the next stop after Union Square. Got off at the Brooklyn Bridge stop, went upstairs and joined thousands of other protesters, than marched across the bridge. Yes, downtown there were some delays. But traffic kept moving, and many motorists on the bridge who were delayed honked their horns in support of the protesters.

 

[jackoroe]

Is that the kind of half-baked paranoid, wacko shit you take for corroborative evidence? Wow. (Ominous xylophone and all).

Please give me a time-mark in the video where I can see evidence of an OWS crowd designating the arrest of one of its members. It's not there between 2:04 and 2:24. That section merely shows a man saying he isn't "on the list" to be arrested. It does not show that the teachers' union members are put on the list against their will. (And supposing they were, it shows a man successfully resisting the 'designation.')

People organizing their arrests voluntarily does not count. Can you understand the difference? Or can you simply admit you misrepresent things as a normal course of your posting habits? This sort of post is from a moderator? Unbelievable. What a shame such nonsense brings to JUB.

It may also be worth pointing out that Union members have a habit of organizing that's hardly applicable to Occupy at large. No. Not even close to a standard OWS protocol.

Fake. Fantasy. Fiction.

Your response proves me right. There are arrestables. They have a list of people who are going to be arrested. It isn't caused by a spontaneous act, it's all quite choreographed in advanced. Whether these useful idiots volunteer or get drafted to get locked up is of no issue. Nobody can force anyone to break the law.

 

[jackoroe]

To be yet more specific:

Getting arrested-- is a bad tactic?

or

Getting arrested because someone tells you to-- is a bad tactic?

The former is not bad. (Unless you think civil disobedience is bad.)

The latter is.

In either event, it's your choice and a conscious decision. Don't complain when you get gassed or pepper sprayed when you engage in behavior knowing full well the consequences.

 

[Jack Springer]

... it's done

 

[chance1]

Chance, that Daily News article is false and misleading. I was in the Union Square area yesterday. The march went through, and there were thousands of people who marched to and from Union Square. But by 5:30pm, they were all cleared out. The women who said she couldn't get to the 8th St subway stop on the R train, could not have been inconvenienced for more that a fairly short time. I took the subway from Astor Place, one block away from the 8th Street stop, at 5:30 and the streets were no more crowded than usual. I boarded the 6 train, no problem. No crowds, got a seat on the subway. Astor Place, for you non-NYers, is the next stop after Union Square. Got off at the Brooklyn Bridge stop, went upstairs and joined thousands of other protesters, than marched across the bridge. Yes, downtown there were some delays. But traffic kept moving, and many motorists on the bridge who were delayed honked their horns in support of the protesters.

Love the man on the street "play by play"

I was in Union Square (at Coffee Shop) the night prior - what a diff a day makes - nothing going on

Good to hear your experience was good - I guess each "take" is unique to u and ur state of mind

I have never walked across the Bklyn Bdg - need to do so

Little dopey here - on meds for wisdom tooth probs

 

[palemale]

Love the man on the street "play by play"

I was in Union Square (at Coffee Shop) the night prior - what a diff a day makes - nothing going on

Good to hear your experience was good - I guess each "take" is unique to u and ur state of mind

I have never walked across the Bklyn Bdg - need to do so

Little dopey here - on meds for wisdom tooth probs

Ah, yes, I can see you at Coffee Shop, raising your hand and saying, "oh Model, Model, may I please have my check."

 

[Thad1527]

Re: Occupy Toronto Protestors Win Stay

Well, Occupy Philadelphia is in chaos now.

They've been camped at Dilworth Plaza on the west side of City Hall. But construction is set for a new plaza including an ice rink...to start any day. (The Christmas Village that has been there annually is moving a block away to Love Park.)

Occupy was supposed to move to the north, to the plaza by the Municipal Services Building. Some were moving there last night - but supposedly the permit for that location wasn't yet issued. Oh boy....

I was in Pittsburgh last weekend and stayed at a hotel near the Occupy Pittsburgh encampment at Mellon Park. It's beside the former US Steel building, and has been cited as probably the best of Occupy's locations. The protesters were friendly and civil and made their points well.

 

[Kulindahr]

Your response proves me right. There are arrestables. They have a list of people who are going to be arrested. It isn't caused by a spontaneous act, it's all quite choreographed in advanced. Whether these useful idiots volunteer or get drafted to get locked up is of no issue. Nobody can force anyone to break the law.

So you've retreated from people being taught to act violently so they can be arrested to merely being on a list of who's willing to get arrested.

And you still haven't established what Z asked for -- a connection to OWS.


"Nobody can force anyone to break the law"? Sorry; you're wrong.
Cops in Portland lined up on the sidewalk and pushed protesters into the street -- where they got arrested for blocking traffic. They were quite literally forced to break the law.

Kinda like my dad, driving on the highway one day, where they'd turned the shoulder into a bike lane: a cop came up behind him and flashed his lights, a signal to be let around. My dad pulled into the bike lane -- and got ticketed for being in the bike lane. When he asked what would have happened if he hadn't pulled into the bike lane, the cop said he would have been ticketed for failing to yield to a police officer.
He was forced into breaking the law.

 

[Kulindahr]

In either event, it's your choice and a conscious decision. Don't complain when you get gassed or pepper sprayed when you engage in behavior knowing full well the consequences.

Right.

Behavior like asking the cops if you've moved back far enough, or trying to show your press credentials, or trying to help people the cops have injured.... yeah, those should get you hit with tear gas or rubber bullets or pepper spray.

And everyone should go into the city every time being aware that the cops don't care at all about what the law or their own rules say about how to treat citizens.

 

[Kulindahr]

Little dopey here - on meds for wisdom tooth probs

Ouch!

I winced, reading that -- I've had two of the bloody things pulled. I got dopey on meds before one was done, dopey afterwards on both.

Don't try any stairways.

 

[chance1]

Ah, yes, I can see you at Coffee Shop, raising your hand and saying, "oh Model, Model, may I please have my check."

LOL - I actually may have done that

Had a good date with an Aussie there - I've yet to meet a dull one

Get the meatloaf

 

[chance1]

Ouch!

I winced, reading that -- I've had two of the bloody things pulled. I got dopey on meds before one was done, dopey afterwards on both.

Don't try any stairways.

Thanks for the tip

I know - it's Marathon Man ..... In real life

Getting it pulled after thanksgiving

Today they shot me up cleaned and gave me antibiotics to kill the infection

Will be living on codeine this weekend

This shit works