Offensive Avatar's

[coldsweat]

The only offensive thing on this site are SLOPPYSECONDS' mind-numbingly cancerous posts that rape my eyes every so often as I innocently wander through a topic. His posts make me want to start huffing glue.

 

[quasar]

As a non-American, this is how I see it.

Whilst Americans in general are known for being extremely patriotic, the displaying of 'Old Glory' in the upsidedown position is likely to cause more indignation amongst serving personnel and veterans than non-military citizens.

The American flag is the physical symbol of the Constitution - and that is what the military is there to protect... the Constitution and everything it stands for. Someone displaying the flag upsidedown must surely seem like a slap in the face to all those who have lost their lives protecting the values of freedom that America strives to attain, and tries to bring to other non-democratic parts of the world.

I understand perfectly why Binow is offended, but can also understand why some Americans and non-Americans are now turning the flag upsidedown as a protest. Visually, it's the fastest way to get someone's attention and prompt them to ask the question "Why is your flag upsidedown" (has anyone actually asked the member concerned???).

Whereas in the past this has been done as a political protest about a certain policy (think Vietnam) I think the current trend is NOT out of disrespect for military personnel - or disrespect of any kind actually - but simply (for Americans) in a 'our country is in distress, and I care too much for it to let it continue - please do something' kind of way, and (for non-Americans) 'we're not happy with your policies' (I'm thinking gay rights primarily).

Over here in the UK we have a Prime Minister who is telling us that we're all in this together and that the savage spending cuts are going to hurt and we'll all feel the pain. Over in the States I don't get the impression that there is this 'we've got to work together to sort this' kind of vibe. Perhaps the upsidedown flag is a way of saying to everyone "Come on, we're in trouble and we all need to realise that."

As much as it may offend, there is no Federal Law against this kind of protest.
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml

The problem with freedom is that you can't fight for it and uphold it and then complain that people are using it.

 

[unloadonme]

The problem with freedom is that you can't fight for it and uphold it and then complain that people are using it.

I find myself agreeing with Quasar for the second time in a week.

The Union Flag is sometimes flown upside down too, but I think that's more out of ignorance than anything.

 

[hylas]

wow, binow...

im sure there is an interesting discussion buried in here somewhere... but as it is, youre just coming across as a raving loonie.

 

[kallipolis]

The Senator McCarthy era witch hunts informs us that perceptions of patriotism can mask the face of totalitarianism, when supposed patriotic values are used to demonise and abuse those who believe that the values that stand behind their national flag are being denied to all Americans. DADT evidences this inquality, and flies in the face of the United States military's focus on flying the national flag as a symbol of presumed superior American values.

I have read many of the posts expressed by the poster, who flies the American flag upside, down and am for the most part not in agreement. However I support his right to freedom of expression, including the use of his avatar to remind us that freedom, should not be abused by those - such as Senator McCarthy and ilk - who believe(ed) that their patriotism is superior, and truer than the patriotism of those who seek greater social egalitarianism so as to better reflect American values.

 

[quasar]

I find myself agreeing with Quasar for the second time in a week.

I'm mellowing and becoming more agree-able with age!

...but as it is, youre just coming across as a raving loonie.

I think most military personnel and veterans would disgree. Their life is about ensuring that the flag and everything it stands for, remains flying in the breeze. It is a hugely important symbol in their life - and commands the utmost respect. This why they get offended if it isn't shown the respect and honour it is entitled to be shown in their eyes.

But, as I say, I can see both sides of the coin here.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

The only offensive thing on this site are SLOPPYSECONDS' mind-numbingly cancerous posts that rape my eyes every so often as I innocently wander through a topic. His posts make me want to start huffing glue.

make copy paste answers fa such a folks comments as a this or above what a save waste a brain cell fa folks of make internet ofs their twat

livin cancer da cultures still pissin on life all ova da planet

ans internet ans da toons live on it while s real world carry on payin fa da toons luxs ta use internet wanna get ins their twat 7000 million live on da round thing no just da handsful of whateva da country think it sellin as civlization

thankyou

ans this PORN site what nice cause toes lovely



no forget mister publics TIPS PLEASE ans be genorusings CAUSE!

ans spit ons all flags

 

[hylas]

as a bi-national expat who refused to do obligatory military service in (one of) my homeland(s), i dont understand that kind of patriotism, or obsession with flags. but hey, thats my perspective, and im very aware other people have theirs, and thats the 'interesting discussion' i was referring to.

but aside from the agitated tone that really isnt constructive... he definitly lost me when started yelling about how people wouldnt understand BECAUSE THEYRE NOT AMERICAN!!! well, if theyre not american, then they have another nationality, which comes with its own flag. i think we all have a valid perspective on flags; americans dont have a monopoly on flags, or patriotism.

unless, of course, this thread isnt about discussing a subject, but just about ranting and raving. which i suspect it is. hence my raving loonie comment.

 

[gsdx]

I find this offensive, but whatcha gonna do, eh?

 

[kallipolis]

I'm mellowing and becoming more agree-able with age!

I think most military personnel and veterans would disgree. Their life is about ensuring that the flag and everything it stands for, remains flying in the breeze. It is a hugely important symbol in their life - and commands the utmost respect. This why they get offended if it isn't shown the respect and honour it is entitled to be shown in their eyes.

But, as I say, I can see both sides of the coin here.

Their lies a danger that can severely limit the development of values, contained in, and guaranteed by The Constitution. In that the values that are reflected by the opinions proffered by military personnel are often, out of touch, and even well behind the social development of American society.

In 1948 President Truman was obliged to issue an executive order to the United States General Staff, ordering his generals to desegregate the American armed forces. This response by the POTUS arose out of the refusal of the American military machine to move with changing times, and integrate black, and white military personnel.

It is important that a piece of bunting does not take on a life of its own, in an attempt to impose supposed American values, upon a wider society. To do so would amount to a virtual dictatorship at the whim of the United States General Staff.

The British Isles in the 1640s was subject to a military dictatorship (The Commonwealth) where The Lord High Protector, Oliver Cromwell, and his fellow generals assumed the moral high ground by imposing their self imagined Christian values on the peoples of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

I will it leave to the words of an English radical, Thomas Paine who contributed so much to the development of understandings on American values, to speak plainly on why we need to respect, and protect those who offer opinions that do not necessarily gel with our own heartfelt views:

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. ~Thomas Paine

 

[roadtripboy]

If bothers you to see the American flag upside down, don't the video for Independence Day by country singer Martina McBride. The US flag is show in various positions through out the video. The end frame is Martina standing in front a giant American flag hung backwards.

 

[Paws]

I'm offended by wrongly used apostrophes for the plural.

 

[mbamike]

I have not seen any avatars that offended me.

 

[quasar]

Their lies a danger that can severely limit the development of values, contained in, and guaranteed by The Constitution. In that the values that are reflected by the opinions proffered by military personnel are often, out of touch, and even well behind the social development of American society...I will it leave to the words of an English radical, Thomas Paine who contributed so much to the development of understandings on American values, to speak plainly on why we need to respect, and protect those who offer opinions that do not necessarily gel with our own heartfelt views...

Ah, but I'm not saying that. I'm simply trying to point out to others WHY some people may be offended. It's not for me to say whether they're right or wrong to be offended or whether they're out of touch with modern American attitudes. My earlier post also pointed out that freedom means that everyone has the right to fly the flag upsidedown if they wanted to.

I wasn't trying to say that anyone is right - I'm trying to help people realise that there are always reasons behind actions and attitudes - and we should try to understand those before passing judgement...

Personally, I couldn't care less if you used it to wash a car - but I'd still try and make you understand why some people would be upset by you doing it!

 

[kallipolis]

Just because someone has the right (constitutionally) to do something, doesn't mean, out of respect, that they should do it.

Reminds me of all the turmoil created by that homophobic minister and his followers who picket the funerals of men and women killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have the right (supposedly), but no concept of respect.

Just because it doesn't bother you personally, doesn't mean it isn't hurtful to others.

Flags are symbols. To many they are JUST symbols, but to others they represent all that one of their family members fought and died for. That deserves respect. I think so anyway.

This is not in debate.

What is under debate is the self bestowed right of this thread's OP to assume that he is more patriotic, than others by disputing the right of a poster to use an upturned American flag in his avatar.

This is a discussion that reflects on freedom of expression.

Not a few people are easily offended. Others, such as myself, are rarely if ever offended, by those who speak plainly.

 

[jackoroe]

I understand the OP's being upset about flying the flag upside down. If you've served, you understand the significance of showing respect for our flag.

But oddly enough, those who serve do so not to ensure the flag is properly displayed, but in support of the rights of those who would be disrespectful of it. It's a strange dichotomy, but it is what it is.

JUB does not enforce proper display of the US flag or any other flag. This is an international community and we try to give people as much freedom as we can.

 

[kallipolis]

Ah, but I'm not saying that. I'm simply trying to point out to others WHY some people may be offended. It's not for me to say whether they're right or wrong to be offended or whether they're out of touch with modern American attitudes. My earlier post also pointed out that freedom means that everyone has the right to fly the flag upsidedown if they wanted to.

I wasn't trying to say that anyone is right - I'm trying to help people realise that there are always reasons behind actions and attitudes - and we should try to understand those before passing judgement...

Bear in mind that the current and ongoing debate on DADT informs us that we should not rush to defend those who presume to be the oracle of true, and authentic American patriotism, when assuming that when they dispute the right of a poster to use the American flag, turned upside, down as their avatar that their judgemental assault represents authentic American values.

I appreciate that my opinion is more forthright, in speaking directly to the matter of freedom of expression, as fundamental to the foundation of American values.

 

[kallipolis]

I understand the OP's being upset about flying the flag upside down. If you've served, you understand the significance of showing respect for our flag.

But oddly enough, those who serve do so not to ensure the flag is properly displayed, but in support of the rights of those who would be disrespectful of it. It's a strange dichotomy, but it is what it is.

JUB does not enforce proper display of the US flag or any other flag. This is an international community and we try to give people as much freedom as we can.

Well noted.

 

[jackoroe]

[/b]

This is not in debate.

What is under debate is the self bestowed right of this thread's OP to assume that he is more patriotic, than others by disputing the right of a poster to use an upturned American flag in his avatar.

This is a discussion that reflects on freedom of expression.

Not a few people are easily offended. Others, such as myself, are rarely if ever offended, by those who speak plainly.

The OP is making it known that he is offended by an inappropriate display of the American flag. He points to the fact that he served as a basis for his being offended. He is permitted to make his point and we can accept it or not.

As to JUB, we have no prohibition on an improper display of the flag. It may offend some, but we won't be changing it or demanding that it be changed.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>But oddly enough, those who serve do so not to ensure the flag is properly displayed, but in support of the rights of those who would be disrespectful of it.

I bet if you put that to a vote (of active personnel and veterans) that that isn't the result you'd get. I've run into my share of vets who care more about the cloth than the ideals.

Lex