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Oh Good! GOP Won't Support Obama Econ Plan

naked gent said:
Do tell Henry if the rich who received all those tax cuts were so productive how come we're in such a mess today?

We gave them all that money to guide us to the promised land....what went wrong? :confused:
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Tax cuts achieved their intended goal for JFK. Ditto for Reagan. Ditto for Bush.

The Bush cuts, or at least many of them, have expiration dates. The robust economy generated was not robust enough to survive the collapse of the mortgage markets. Government, notably Democrats, were encouraging people to obtain mortgages who were clearly unable to pay for them. The Bush admin attempted to do something about it a few years ago. Barney Frank (who was fucking, or being fucked by, one of the fannie mae officials at the time) said everything is okay. No problem. I don't know why the Republicans didn't have the balls to tackle that problem, and shied away from it instead.

No question, the republican party did not know how to be in charge and screwed up when they had the chance. The whole country is paying for their stupidity.

Anyone with half a brain should have known that you cannot lend someone 110% of the value of their home - even if they are credit worthy, which was another of the problems.
 
HenryReardon said:
The Bush tax cuts were pretty much across the board. Very nearly every group of taxpayers got some sort of break.
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HenryReardon said:
One problem with the above - we do not live in a democracy.
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Henry, your above comments are very disturbing to hear. I fear you risk losing well-earned credibility on this board by attempting to argue each of those points.

A well-schooled debater knows when the risk of arguing a particular point poses a greater risk to future debate wins.

I know you are better than those comments appear on the surface.
 
HenryReardon said:
Obama should have been honest and said, 'vote for me and I'll give you $500 from the government.' Instead he cloaked the same promise in fraudulent language and called it a tax cut, even though many, if not most, of the intended recipients do not, in fact, pay income taxes.
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Maybe in your mind "a tax cut" means "an income tax cut," but some Americans might be smart enough to recognize there are many kinds of taxes and "a tax cut" merely means one of those taxes will be cut for the people characterized. Obama didn't use fradulent language about that; he was clear and it's one of the promises he's keeping exactly the way he made it.
 
NickCole said:
Maybe in your mind "a tax cut" means "an income tax cut," but some Americans might be smart enough to recognize there are many kinds of taxes and "a tax cut" merely means one of those taxes will be cut for the people characterized. Obama didn't use fradulent language about that; he was clear and it's one of the promises he's keeping exactly the way he made it.
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Puhleeze. In the context in which he said it, tax cut means one thing, and one thing only - income tax cut. Period.
 
HenryReardon said:
1. What word games? Specific taxes have specific names which, in turn, have precise meanings. Income Tax. FICA Tax. Quite different taxes levied for different purposes.

It is not playing word games to point out that x% of Americans do not pay income taxes. Clearly they do not.

2. Dividends are paid by corporations to stockholders to distribute their share of the corporation's profits. Governments are not profit making organizations. Governments are net consumers of wealth, not producers of wealth.

To give a $1,000 "dividend" to every participant, you would first have to take it away from someone else.

You are the one playing word games.
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You talked about people who don't pay taxes, you were told that they do, and then you responded to that with a post about just income tax. That's word games.

I'm not playing any word games at all -- I made a proposal, that would get rid of that word "refund" that you don't like.
 
HenryReardon said:
Here we go with the wealth envy and class envy. That's so tired.

The Democrat party wants us to believe that they are Robin Hood - stealing from (taxing) the evil rich and giving to the deserving poor.

What the Democrats actually do is steal from (tax) the productive rich and give the money to the thieving poor.

The Republican party created tax cuts for the productive rich - you know, the people who actually pay taxes and create jobs - and cuts were there for other income levels as well.
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There's good reason for wealthy-envy: most of them are wealthy due to involvement in huge corporations, which get all kinds of government benefits and favors. We have corporate welfare all over the place, but those who like it call it "capitalism", which it manifestly is not.

Of course then there are people like Cheney and his pals, who don't even bother to earn their riches, they just steal it.
 
HenryReardon said:
Puhleeze. In the context in which he said it, tax cut means one thing, and one thing only - income tax cut. Period.
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Well I knew what he meant.

And Payroll Tax is an income tax. It may not be upper case Income Tax, but it IS a tax on income.
 
Back to the broader topic of this thread ...

If Obama hadn't bothered trying to get GOP support from the House, that would have been one thing -- afterall he doesn't need it to pass the bill. Although, of course, it would have been contrary to his entire campaign schtick.

But since he clearly wanted bipartisan support, the way he went about trying to get it is not a good sign. His efforts were totally reactionary rather than proactive. He could have taken a more centrist approach, told House Democrats to take out the pork, which they wouldn't have liked but what are they going to do? He then would have been in a position of strength with Republicans. But instead he took out a couple of items that Republicans had been successful in using to alter public perception of the Democratic bill. He "caved" where he felt he had to and then didn't get GOP support anyway.

Maybe the Administration will smarten up, or maybe it's not about smarts but about experience; but if they continue in this way it's a bad omen for the other big ticket items, some of them crisis or near-crisis, that Obama has said he'll tackle. Like health care for instance. And energy.
 
What goes around comes around, karma is a bitch, etc, etc. GOP can have fun with it now, at the expense of our democracy and national well-being. They better hope (or we all better hope) that they are not teaching Democrats how to return the favor when the GOP is back in the White House. This partisan vicious cycle is bound to only keep getting worse, continually dragging our nation down with it. Playing tit or tat instead of solving problems.
 
Qixote said:
What goes around comes around, karma is a bitch, etc, etc. GOP can have fun with it now, at the expense of our democracy and national well-being. They better hope (or we all better hope) that they are not teaching Democrats how to return the favor when the GOP is back in the White House. This partisan vicious cycle is bound to only keep getting worse, continually dragging our nation down with it. Playing tit or tat instead of solving problems.
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One can only hope that the GOP has learned, from eight years of Democrat obstruction and road blocks, how to be in opposition.
 
HenryReardon said:
One can only hope that the GOP has learned, from eight years of Democrat obstruction and road blocks, how to be in opposition.
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Thatta way to govern a faltering country. Oppose everything just for sake of opposing and getting even. Make everything right with two wrongs.
 
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